FF2012: Official GWJFFL 2012 signup and discussion thread

RGIII and Luck will both be in the top 10 QBs drafted, for sure. Grumps is pretty spot on that they'll be in the 40's, 50's or 60's before they should get drafted.

In a Dynasty league, I would still like the ability to keep a player forever, just like teams in the NFL do. That's why I wouldn't draft Luck with 1.1 or something like that. Aaron Rodgers is the person most likely to go 1.1. Or one of the stud, young running backs a la Ray Rice. Anyway, if Grumps wants close to forever, but not forever I can live with that.

I would like to know the rules before the draft, which is why I asked. But if it is going to cause a lot of heartburn and drama don't worry about it, the point is to have fun after all.

That said, I thought it would be like Garion mentioned, you draft a guy and you keep him until you waive him, not like just a keeper league extension. I don't see why in a dynasty league we have to worry about dollar values to keep players. I assumed you draft, you keep forever, and over time some of your draft picks will get old or injured and start to suck and you'll either waive and pick up people off the wire or you replace them with next year's draft. The idea is to build a good team through the draft, trading and waiver wire. If someone has a good draft this year and get three players in the late rounds that turn into superstars, good for them and they get rewarded in the future dynasty years.

Just my thoughts, maybe there are some huge holes.

Isn't there a 'standard' dynasty format we can just copy like we did for the regular leagues? If there is then no reason to have a bunch of debate.

Eh, the draft is tonight. Unless you guys come up with and agree on something better, you can assume that the "rules" that I previously outlined are the ones that will be used at the end of season 1 at least.

@Garion: Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning. Eventually, the player has to move on.

Wan't Farve drafted by the Falcons originally?

LeapingGnome wrote:

I don't see why in a dynasty league we have to worry about dollar values to keep players.

A lot of dynasty leagues do the salary cap thing.

Really, I guess it comes down to which NFL-style you want the league to model: pre-cap (eg. 1970s Steelers and Cowboys) or the modern cap era. The latter funnels players back into the draft & free agency, while the former heavily emphasizes trading.

If you guys like, I can whip up some rule proposals that we can discuss here today before the draft, and if there's some consensus around any of them, we can consider going with those choices. And if not, we stay pat with how the league is currently set.

Was the draft time solidified? I thought it was going to be 9pm CST? It currently says 9pm EST.

As for Dynasty league, my experience has been 27 man rosters and keep 20 players year to year.

Another option is to keep 20 players except for one of our top five scorers. That is somewhat like real football. No NFL team can keep all their good players year to year. So it would be like a salary cap effect without having to have player salaries, a cap, restricted free agents, and other similar headache-causing features.

*Legion* wrote:

Really, I guess it comes down to which NFL-style you want the league to model: pre-cap (eg. 1970s Steelers and Cowboys) or the modern cap era. The latter funnels players back into the draft & free agency, while the former heavily emphasizes trading.

This. Personally, I prefer the modern NFL... but if, as I've said many times, the persons actually playing in the league prefer something else, I'm more than happy to go with the consensus.

FSeven wrote:

Was the draft time solidified? I thought it was going to be 9pm CST? It currently says 9pm EST.

Fixed. Thanks.

Edit: Fleaflicker's incomplete implementation of the commish-only feature means that I can't get into the draft room. Legion has been appointed co-commish so hopefully he should have the ability to execute the commish features should they be necessary (e.g. pause the draft if someone loses connection or locks up). I strongly suggest that you all gather in Ventrilo (the Google+ idea just didn't pan out) so that you can communicate your need for assistance if appropriate.

Grumpicus wrote:

Edit: Fleaflicker's incomplete implementation of the commish-only feature means that I can't get into the draft room. Legion has been appointed co-commish so hopefully he should have the ability to execute the commish features should they be necessary (e.g. pause the draft if someone loses connection or locks up). I strongly suggest that you all gather in Ventrilo (the Google+ idea just didn't pan out) so that you can communicate your need for assistance if appropriate.

That's it. I quit.

j/k

I originally thought of a dynasty league as one where you could conceivably keep players "forever." But, I do like the model of the modern NFL and the sample figures that Grump used. What I'm saying is that I am fine with a salary cap model with a very low level of inflation.

Sounds like a lot of the participants were expecting a draft-em-and-keep-em sort of league. So let's talk that idea through and see if that's where we want to go. I'm OK with that idea especially given that we already do a salary cap in Keeper. The main thing I wanted out of Dynasty was to be a different experience.

For sake of discussion, assume we've agreed to this style of league. Do we want there to be any mechanisms at all to limiting keepers? Maybe a certain threshold number? Something along the lines of the ideas in FSeven's posts?

*Legion* wrote:

For sake of discussion, assume we've agreed to this style of league. Do we want there to be any mechanisms at all to limiting keepers? Maybe a certain threshold number? Something along the lines of the ideas in FSeven's posts?

I don't like the idea of having to auto-drop your best players. I do like the idea of keeping a certain number of players. We have 23 +3 IR in our league, so maybe like we keep 18 players year to year?

LeapingGnome wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

For sake of discussion, assume we've agreed to this style of league. Do we want there to be any mechanisms at all to limiting keepers? Maybe a certain threshold number? Something along the lines of the ideas in FSeven's posts?

I don't like the idea of having to auto-drop your best players. I do like the idea of keeping a certain number of players. We have 23 +3 IR in our league, so maybe like we keep 18 players year to year?

I'd be on board with that as long as 18 is a maximum and not a requirement. If an owner might want to rebuild and dump half his team, I think he should be allowed to do so.

oldmanscene24 wrote:

I'd be on board with that as long as 18 is a maximum and not a requirement. If an owner might want to rebuild and dump half his team, I think he should be allowed to do so.

Yes, the number of players retained is a limit, not a mandate.

So, the proposal we have on the table is 23 man roster + 3 IR slots, with a player retention limit of 18, which is approx. 80% of the active roster.

Is that something that feels good to everyone? Is anyone not wanting to go with this general format? Is there any desire to alter the roster or IR size?

I'm probably gonna be a few minutes late to the draft, depending on traffic.

Now that NFL teams are allowed to bring one player off of IR, will we be allowed to do the same if one of our players comes off of IR?

garion333 wrote:

Now that NFL teams are allowed to bring one player off of IR, will we be allowed to do the same if one of our players comes off of IR?

I support this.

The short answer is "Whatever Fleaflicker supports." That being said, I'm pretty sure there isn't any restriction on moving someone from IR back to the bench.

Actually, this is "automatically" supported.

IR slots in Fleaflicker are extra roster slots with a minimum "injury-ness" requirement. In other words, we can set the slots to require players to be Healthy (ie. any player you choose), Probable, Questionable, Doubtful, Out, PUP, or IR.

Currently these are set to IR. (I think at minimum we need to bump these to PUP, and maybe Out or even less).

At any rate, once a player leaves the NFL's IR, he would no longer be allowed to sit in an IR spot in our leagues as currently set. (We'd have to change the threshold to something lower than "IR" for that).

You already have the ability to move players between the active roster and IR, so long as the player meets the requirement to be put into an IR slot. And once they're healthy, you would be forced to move the player out of the IR slot, unless we relaxed the restriction to something lesser than "IR".

So how do you guys think your drafts went? I think my Dynasty was better than Platinum. In Dynasty I felt I had more choice in my picks and got some good values (Jonathan Stewart at 5.10, Kenny Britt at 8.10 and others). A lot of people seemed to shy away from players that have minor injuries and will miss 1-2 weeks and I think I got some good deals there. But in Platinum I felt I was more reactionary and picking for need a lot more often. I am also not crazy about having both Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams.

In Platinum, Kaos has a great looking team, light on backups but strong starters. I hate to say it, but the same for Cybardian's autopicks, although he has two more quarterbacks than he needs.

In Dynasty, I like Iridium's Hammocks, Garion's and FSeven's as the teams to beat. Good mix of starters assuming FSeven puts in MJD for Alfred Morris.

During the Platinum draft, Gumbie surmised that Jacoby Ford might be an alien.

His proof:

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Ckkhg.jpg)

That image comes up in the sidebar if you search Google for "Jacoby Ford".

He does run faster than almost every human, even all other NFL players (his Combine 40 was the second fastest ever). Possibly his constant foot injuries are due to his bones being a little too lightweight for strenuous body movement in Earth level gravity?

My draft strategy for dynasty was definitely long term, at some expense to 2012.

I took Aaron Rodgers first overall as the player I felt was most can't-miss for the long term. Ray Rice was super tempting especially given his age, but running backs are far more susceptible to injury-driven decline. Rice has been durable enough that it was still up in the air right up until I made the pick though.

Jamaal Charles, Doug Martin, Jeremy Maclin, Torrey Smith, Eric Decker, Jermaine Gresham, Denarius Moore. All guys who are current starters, ascending, and aged 25 or younger. These guys were all on my targets list and I was happy to take so many home. Yep, I pick 'em young. I think Torrey Smith has a better-than-even chance of becoming a top 10 fantasy receiver by next year. Not a Megatron, but I think he's a 23 year old Roddy White. Coming into the dynasty draft, he was near the top of my must-pick list. Gresham I took in every league I play this year, keeper or otherwise. I think he's undervalued in every format, and for dynasty purposes, he's only 24.

Drafting late, I targeted Alex Green, Ronnie Hillman, Josh Gordon and Brian Quick. Green is someone I feel will shake out to be Green Bay's starting running back. Benson is a stopgap and James Starks is purely just-a-guy with no juice. (I could see Green taking over as soon as later in this year, which is why I was pissed when Elliott got him ahead of me in Platinum - but if I had to choose one or the other, I'm glad I got the pick in Dynasty). Brian Quick will be given every chance in St. Louis to become a #1 WR. Someone in Cleveland will eventually deliver on their promise at WR in Cleveland and I invested a late pick on the idea that Gordon has the juice to be the guy.

My favorite late pick was Jordan Cameron (not to be confused with Cameron Jordan). He's a super-athletic tight end in Cleveland whom they are targeting to become a weapon. Wasn't sure what the timetable was there, but when he was so impressive in camp that they cut Evan Moore a day ago (whom they had just thrown a nice contract at a year ago), I figured the timetable was moving up. I was out in front on Jimmy Graham last year and picked him in every league I could. I see Cameron like that, but maybe more like 2010 Jimmy Graham at this point. A year away from full-on breakout.

Since I took Rodgers, I made my backup QBs Ponder and Gabbert. One of my strategies for the draft was the expectation that 2nd and 3rd year players would be cheaper than the new flashy rookies, and offer much more upside-per-dollar. I wanted to stash one or two out of Locker, Ponder, Gabbert and Bradford on my bench and see what they looked like as potential keepers after another season. With Rodgers obviously my long term QB, I'm looking to pull a Green Bay and manufacture trade-away starters, Mark Brunell and Matt Hasselbeck style. If neither looks like they're developing into long-term starter material by the end of the year, I'll throw them back and go young QB fishing in next year's pool.

I took a few play-now veterans here and there, but not many. No player on my team has reached 30 with the exception of the kicker, whom I won't keep. And two of my "old" guys, Rodgers and Marques Colston, either just got (Colston) or will soon get (Rodgers) brand new long-term contracts from the team where they've already been successful, so I like their long-term prospects.

Ultimately we'll see if my choices for seed talent pay off with enough long-term hits. I wanted the guys that I felt were going to be high (or at least higher) draft picks in next year's draft. I definitely don't claim that my picks were "right", I just chose my targets and went after them, and now I hope I'm not a moron.

I think Torrey Smith has a better-than-even chance of becoming a top 10 fantasy receiver by next year. Not a Megatron, but I think he's a 23 year old Roddy White. Coming into the dynasty draft, he was near the top of my must-pick list.

Yeah I think he has a lot of upside, I had him up next to take in dynasty but you got there first.

I think I did okay on my Dynasty draft. There were some things I would have changed but overall I'm happy. My goal was to draft 2 guys each at RB/WR that can put up good numbers now and then stock the team with at least one of the big young QB's (RG3 or Luck - I could have had either but opted for Luck). I expect to compete this year and only get better year after year.

Arian Foster and MJD should keep me competing at RB in the short term and I feel stacked with young RB's for the long term (Kevin Smith, Jacquizz Rogers, David Wilson, Isaiah Pead, Alfred Morris). Likewise, with WR, I grabbed Miles Austin and AJ Green and stocked up with young WR (Green is young, and also grabbed Titus Young, Jon Baldwin, Lestar Jean, Keshawn Martin, TY Hilton, AJ Jenkins).

I have some good young TE's in Kellen Davis and Ed Dickson.

Teams I like this year: Legion, Garion, Elliott, and Landshark.

One more draft... 30 min...

lol

Had to install Java again. This'll be the last time though. Unless I want to play Minecraft.

I admit, I'm probably just dumb, but in the Dynasty league, how do I put players on the IR list? I saw Garion did it, I want to do it too!!!!!!

Lars wrote:

I admit, I'm probably just dumb, but in the Dynasty league, how do I put players on the IR list? I saw Garion did it, I want to do it too!!!!!!

Same way you move players in and out of your starting lineup.

If the player is on IR in the NFL, then he'll have an option for IR when you click to set his lineup status.

Well another year of herding cats is complete. Good luck to all. On to week 1.

Note: This thread will stay open to allow for random discussion that you may not want to clutter the weekly threads with, such as dynasty keeper rules and whatnot.

Grumpicus wrote:

Well another year of herding cats is complete.

I know everyone here appreciates all your hard work in making all this possible. Let's all make sure we tip one back for Grump when next we get the chance.

*Legion* wrote:
Lars wrote:

I admit, I'm probably just dumb, but in the Dynasty league, how do I put players on the IR list? I saw Garion did it, I want to do it too!!!!!!

Same way you move players in and out of your starting lineup.

If the player is on IR in the NFL, then he'll have an option for IR when you click to set his lineup status.

Thank you. I could have sworn that I tried that with Vincent Brown, but apparently I was mistaken, since I was able to do it just now. *shrugs*

*edit* I feel better, it looks like he was just placed on IR less then 24 hours ago. Good news, I'm not crazy!