FF2012: Official GWJFFL 2012 signup and discussion thread

iaintgotnopants wrote:

When will we be able to put in claims on players? Our budgets are still $0 so I assume if I claim somebody now it won't stick.

Yeah, I also just cut someone because of my need for a BYE TM

Gumbie wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:

Long story short, I had to remake Platinum. Platinum members should all have invitations to the new Platinum in their inboxes. Feel free to drop from the old Platinum to avoid confusion. Sorry for the slightly extra work.

I got Boogle to delete the old league so all you need to do is re-add.

Will the draft order go back to what it was?

Once everyone is in, yes.

I saw an interesting concept for dynasty drafts.

Basically, what this league did was normal drafts, and assigned a "slotted" contract value for draft slots. (Maybe something as simple as $X for 1st round picks, $Y for 2nd round picks, on down).

Then, they inflate as normal, like we do with the keeper league.

That strategy allows for drafts to be non-auction, but still have a salary cap system.

I have developed an opinion or two on how I would do the keepers in the D league, but given that I don't have a horse in that race, I intend to leave it up to the folks participating in the league as much as possible. One thing that was clear early on based on some informal back-room polling, is that most people are intimidated by auction drafts, which is why I kept this one as a snake.

As I already mentioned, I don't think "Dynasty" means "keep forever" but the "inflation" should definitely be lighter than in the keeper league. (Edit: This is RE: "Then, they inflate as normal, like we do with the keeper league.") Perhaps we could take the keeper league formulas and cut them in half or by a percentage. My question, though, is what happens to a player whose value become greater than $60? Does he have to be dropped?

Anyway, it's still all pretty up in the air but here are the values that ESPN assigns in their cheat sheets:

1 $60
2 $59
3 $59
4 $55
5 $53
6 $52
7 $51
8 $49
9 $48
10 $47
11 $45
12 $43
13 $42
14 $41
15 $40
16 $39
17 $39
18 $38
19 $37
20 $37
21 $36
22 $34
23 $33
24 $32
25 $32
26 $31
27 $30
28 $30
29 $29
30 $29
31 $28
32 $27
33 $25
34 $25
35 $24
36 $23
37 $22
38 $22
39 $21
40 $20
41 $19
42 $18
43 $17
44 $17
45 $16
46 $16
47 $15
48 $14
49 $13
50 $13
51 $12
52 $11
53 $11
54 $10
55 $10
56 $10
57 $9
58 $9
59 $9
60 $9
61 $8
62 $8
63 $7
64 $7
65 $7
66 $7
67 $7
68 $7
69 $7
70 $6
71 $6
72 $6
73 $6
74 $5
75 $5
76 $5
77 $5
78 $5
79 $4
80 $4
81 $4
82 $4
83 $4
84 $4
85 $4
86 $4
87 $3
88 $3
89 $3
90 $3
91 $3
92 $3
93 $3
94 $3
95 $3
96 $2
97 $2
98 $2
99 $2
100 $2
101 $2
102 $2
103 $2
104 $2
105 $2
106 $2
107 $2
108 $2
109 $2
110 $2
111 $2
112 $2
113 $1
114 $1
115 $1
116 $1
117 $1
118 $1
119 $1
120 $1
121 $1
122 $1
123 $1
124 $1
125 $1
126 $1
127 $1
128 $1
129 $1
130 $1
131 $1
132 $1
133 $1
134 $1
135 $1
136 $1
137 $1
138 $1
139 $1
140 $1
141 $1
142 $1
143 $1
144 $1
145 $1
146 $1
147 $1
148 $1
149 $1
150 $1
151 $1
152 $1
153 $1
154 $1
155 $1
156 $1
157 $1
158 $1
159 $1
160 $1

I don't think "Dynasty" means "keep forever" but the "inflation" should definitely be lighter than in the keeper league.

Agreed. I was referring more to the mechanism of inflation rather than the specific values. The idea being that a player's base value is determined by draft slot, and then inflates annually like in keeper league.

With regards to the specific slotted values, I think they need to be defined to be much lower after this year than what's listed above.

This season is the "seed" season, and the picks are from the entire league pool.
Next year's draft will be rookies and free agents, and so going forward, $60 for the #1 pick won't make sense beyond this year.

Jolly Bill wrote:

Are the keeper values in ESPN going to be updated before the draft tonight? A lot of the values are off (for example, many players have a $0 keeper value).

Doing this now.

Paging Mr. Landshark83, do you have any players you wish to keep?

Edit: This is done. Please review your amounts and make sure they are correct... and if you're feeling really helpful, feel free to double-check all the others, too. Thanks.

Grumpicus wrote:
Gumbie wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:

Long story short, I had to remake Platinum. Platinum members should all have invitations to the new Platinum in their inboxes. Feel free to drop from the old Platinum to avoid confusion. Sorry for the slightly extra work.

I got Boogle to delete the old league so all you need to do is re-add.

Will the draft order go back to what it was?

Once everyone is in, yes.

:(

tboon wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
Gumbie wrote:

Will the draft order go back to what it was?

Once everyone is in, yes.

:(

You don't like the 6th slot?

Grumpicus is the man~!

FSeven wrote:

I'm afraid if the draft stays 9/1 @ 9:00pm EST I'll have to drop from the league. I don't do autopicking especially for a Dynasty draft.

The results are in and the best I can do is to push the draft back by an hour. This is a half-hour earlier than FSeven would prefer, a half-hour later than Bill_Bonney would like to get started, and everyone else indicated that it would be acceptable so hopefully everyone will understand and be accommodating.

Once again, here's the full, updated list. All listed times are Central.

By League:
Silver - 8/28 (8:30)
Gold - 9/4 (8:30)
Platinum - 9/2 (8:00)
Keeper - 8/29 (9:00)
Dynasty - 9/1 (9:00)

By Date:
8/28 - Silver (8:30)
8/29 - Keeper (9:00)
9/1 - Dynasty (9:00)
9/2 - Platinum (8:00)
9/4 - Gold (8:30)

Thanks Grump.

Grumpicus wrote:
tboon wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:
Gumbie wrote:

Will the draft order go back to what it was?

Once everyone is in, yes.

:(

You don't like the 6th slot?

I draft six? I thought I was at...no, no, six is great, um yeah. I like six.

GWJFFLK, Great drafts all!! Some very interesting stuff this year. I would have enjoyed having a couple dollars (and my choice of QB) back from my miss-click on RGIII, but who knows? Maybe this is the year the Redskins finally pull it toge....*kkksssppppshhhtt* hahahhaa, almost got through it.

Jolly Bill wrote:

GWJFFLK, Great drafts all!! Some very interesting stuff this year. I would have enjoyed having a couple dollars (and my choice of QB) back from my miss-click on RGIII, but who knows? Maybe this is the year the Redskins finally pull it toge....*kkksssppppshhhtt* hahahhaa, almost got through it.

Yeah, lag hurt me a time or two, but at least I didn't pay $24 for a kicker.

Bah, I couldn't get the PC up and running in time to avoid spending most of my budget on Rice and MJD. I'm OK on Rice, but it spent about $20 more on MJD than I would have :(.

Ok, GWJFFLK folks, here's the results in a Google Doc (though you're welcome to verify against ESPN).

The rosters have been "imported" into Fleaflicker. Pop on over there and verify them, please.

Doesn't look like any of my players imported in the Keeper league.

garion333 wrote:

Doesn't look like any of my players imported in the Keeper league.

Oops. No problem. I'll get that fixed up this afternoon. Thanks.

Minase wrote:

Bah, I couldn't get the PC up and running in time to avoid spending most of my budget on Rice and MJD. I'm OK on Rice, but it spent about $20 more on MJD than I would have :(.

My power went out last night, so I couldn't even get in to set up anything ahead of time, AND I missed the draft. I'm really, really scared to look at my roster.

Grumpicus wrote:

I have developed an opinion or two on how I would do the keepers in the D league, but given that I don't have a horse in that race, I intend to leave it up to the folks participating in the league as much as possible. One thing that was clear early on based on some informal back-room polling, is that most people are intimidated by auction drafts, which is why I kept this one as a snake.

Truthfully, when I heard "dynasty league", I thought it was going to be something where we kept at least 90% or more of the roster from year to year, with essentially being able to keep whomever we drafted for as long as we wanted. The league you're describing here sounds like an auction/keeper league where the fun part (the auction) is removed. I mean, don't we already have a keeper league that has rules like this?

I would be interested in trying a traditional dynasty league, as I haven't had the chance to participate in one of those for a long time. So, my vote (for what it's worth) is for a snake draft dealio, and you can keep anyone on your roster as long as you want. As I've mentioned before, I would also be in favor of having players added after the draft to be ineligible to be kept on your roster for next year, and thrown back into the draft pool for next year. As always, I'll go along with whatever the consensus agrees to. Did I mention how much I appreciate all the work you put in, Grump?

Lars wrote:

My power went out last night, so I couldn't even get in to set up anything ahead of time, AND I missed the draft. I'm really, really scared to look at my roster. :(

Don't worry, you got Tebow. Everything will be alright.

ukickmydog wrote:
Lars wrote:

My power went out last night, so I couldn't even get in to set up anything ahead of time, AND I missed the draft. I'm really, really scared to look at my roster. :(

Don't worry, you got Tebow. Everything will be alright.

Except all his points will go to the Jets special teams.

Grumpicus wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Doesn't look like any of my players imported in the Keeper league.

Oops. No problem. I'll get that fixed up this afternoon. Thanks.

Afternoon became evening but you should have players now, Garion.

garion333 wrote:
Jolly Bill wrote:

GWJFFLK, Great drafts all!! Some very interesting stuff this year. I would have enjoyed having a couple dollars (and my choice of QB) back from my miss-click on RGIII, but who knows? Maybe this is the year the Redskins finally pull it toge....*kkksssppppshhhtt* hahahhaa, almost got through it.

Yeah, lag hurt me a time or two, but at least I didn't pay $24 for a kicker.

Its a very important kicker, by the way.

Lars wrote:
Minase wrote:

Bah, I couldn't get the PC up and running in time to avoid spending most of my budget on Rice and MJD. I'm OK on Rice, but it spent about $20 more on MJD than I would have :(.

My power went out last night, so I couldn't even get in to set up anything ahead of time, AND I missed the draft. I'm really, really scared to look at my roster.

Grumpicus wrote:

I have developed an opinion or two on how I would do the keepers in the D league, but given that I don't have a horse in that race, I intend to leave it up to the folks participating in the league as much as possible. One thing that was clear early on based on some informal back-room polling, is that most people are intimidated by auction drafts, which is why I kept this one as a snake.

Truthfully, when I heard "dynasty league", I thought it was going to be something where we kept at least 90% or more of the roster from year to year, with essentially being able to keep whomever we drafted for as long as we wanted. The league you're describing here sounds like an auction/keeper league where the fun part (the auction) is removed. I mean, don't we already have a keeper league that has rules like this?

I would be interested in trying a traditional dynasty league, as I haven't had the chance to participate in one of those for a long time. So, my vote (for what it's worth) is for a snake draft dealio, and you can keep anyone on your roster as long as you want. As I've mentioned before, I would also be in favor of having players added after the draft to be ineligible to be kept on your roster for next year, and thrown back into the draft pool for next year. As always, I'll go along with whatever the consensus agrees to. Did I mention how much I appreciate all the work you put in, Grump?

I had the same thought as Lars, so I guess that brings up the question kind of late in the game, what are we doing for the Dynasty league? How is it going to be different that a regular year-to-year league? Was this all in an older post I just can't find?

I don't want Keeper League 1.5, I want the ability to get Andrew Luck now and feasibly keep him forever.

Grumpicus wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

When will we be able to put in claims on players? Our budgets are still $0 so I assume if I claim somebody now it won't stick.

Hmm. I'll get back to you.

I had to set it to $101 in order to get it to reset so enjoy your extra $1. Although our waiver processing day is normally Thursday, I've set all leagues to process on Wednesday for the moment. That means waivers should process once before the opening of the season.

Grumpicus wrote:
Gumbie wrote:
Grumpicus wrote:

Long story short, I had to remake Platinum. Platinum members should all have invitations to the new Platinum in their inboxes. Feel free to drop from the old Platinum to avoid confusion. Sorry for the slightly extra work.

I got Boogle to delete the old league so all you need to do is re-add.

Will the draft order go back to what it was?

Once everyone is in, yes.

This is done.

People wrote:

Dynasty stuff.

Much like Keeper, during its first/second year, I've never done this before but I have some ideas. As I mentioned up-thread, I'm very much interested in hearing what the players want. Lars mentioned keeping 90% of the roster and that's not too far off from what I have in mind, though the vague number in my head was probably closer to 80% or 75%. My main goal is to, much like in the NFL, allow players the interesting choice of deciding if it's worth keeping Drew Brees on the roster at the expense of having to cut a handful of other veterans or hand the reigns over to RGIII and keep those other guys. Like I said, I expect turnover to be relatively low compared to the keeper league but elite players come with elite price tags and choices have to be made. Or at least that's my vision. Once again, I intend to strongly lean towards what the players want.

garion333 wrote:

I don't want Keeper League 1.5, I want the ability to get Andrew Luck now and feasibly keep him forever.

(Note, I'm speaking as just someone with an opinion, not the commish. None of this is "the official position of the league." That being said, it's my favorite idea so far; let's hear others.)

Well, much like the NFL, the first five years should be easy. After his rookie contract is up, though, you may not be able to keep both Andrew Luck and whatever the five-year-from-now equivalent of Megatron is (and Arian Foster, too, why not?). Or maybe you can, but the rest of your team will be scrubs. You'll never be forced to drop a player (that's one rule I'm very much avoiding) but there's likely to be some players that, at some point, it simply becomes impossible to keep them all.

Again, this is not the plan, just some thoughts and opinions.

Edit: Luck's ADP is currently 114 on ESPN. Using the list I posted earlier, that's equivalent to $1. By ADP, Luck is the 16th QB taken this year. The 16th rank fantasy QB last year was Andy Dalton with 256.1 points (using the GWJFFL scoring system). Let's assume, though, that Luck gets better over time and, after five years, he's as good as Eli (#6 at 349). Assuming a linear progression for simplicity's sake, Luck's fantasy numbers over his first 5 years would be 256, 279.25, 302.5, 325.75, and 349. Then, we'll assume he live up to his potential and averages 400 points over the next 5 years.

Utilizing the off-the-cuff example of GWJFFLK inflation*.5, that would translate as follows:

Points Previous Example 1 Year 0: R $1 Year 1: 256 $3 Year 2: 279.25 $5 Year 3: 302.5 $7 Year 4: 325.75 $9 Year 5: 349 $11 Year 6: 400 $13 Year 7: 400 $16 Year 8: 400 $19 Year 9: 400 $23 Year 10: 400 $27

So by those calculations, you've got a top 8 QB for 10 years and you're still not even close to breaking the bank. Just using the list I posted up-thread, $27 is "equivalent" to pick 32 (round 3). It'll take another 4 years of 400-point seasons before luck gets up to $54, or pick #4.5. In his 15th season, Luck's price tag would be $65, which begins to get over the top of the scale ($60) but even then, I don't intend to force you to drop him. You'll just have to sacrificing some depth in order to keep funding your Peyton-Manning-of-2027. (What that means exactly is still somewhat TBD; maybe it costs you a 1st and a 6th and then you grab someone in a "supplemental" 24th round.) For the record, Manning was only with the Colts for 14 seasons.

Ultimately, I admit that my philosophy here is similar to my is similar to my philosophy in Keeper in that higher performers come with higher price tags but with a much more lenient inflation scale, grabbing future stars in their rookie years while they're still cheap should allow you to keep them for just about as long as you want. Of course, since we're not using an auction draft, the exact details of assigning value are still TBD, but hopefully I've illustrated that you probably don't need to get too distraught about this being "Keeper 1.5."

Disclaimer: All numbers here are for example purposes only. The exact calculations that will be used are still TBD. That being said, you should have a good enough idea of my philosophy to make informed draft decisions. Anyone taken in the 6th or 7th round or later this year will likely be able to stay on your roster for as long as you want him.

I don't have a horse in this race since I'm not in the dynasty league, but to me, the point of a dynasty league is that you would be drafting players like Luck in the opening rounds so that you can then keep him for a long time. Luck would be going nowhere near the 16th QB taken in a dynasty league. Either way, you guys should really have rules in place for this before the draft. It will make a huge difference in how you draft.

A keeper league is about finding sleepers. A dynasty league is about drafting young stud players.

ukickmydog wrote:

I don't have a horse in this race since I'm not in the dynasty league, but to me, the point of a dynasty league is that you would be drafting players like Luck in the opening rounds so that you can then keep him for a long time. Luck would be going nowhere near the 16th QB taken in a dynasty league. Either way, you guys should really have rules in place for this before the draft. It will make a huge difference in how you draft.

While it's true that Luck probably won't be the 16th QB taken, I'm not drafting a team full of rookies in order to maybe win 4 years from now. Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Newton, Stafford, Manning should all still go before Luck. Even if Luck was the 8th QB taken, that's an ADP of 40. That's $20 on the "value chart" which means that the example inflation numbers would be $24, $29, $35, and $42 for the first five years (the length of a typical rookie QB contract). Beyond that, Luck becomes equivalent to a first-round pick ($60) in year 7 and starts to weigh on the salary cap in his 8th year.

I disagree that the rules need to be 100% in place before the draft. The philosophy is roughly explained (longer than keeper, less than forever) and everyone is operating from the same general understanding (rookies should be around for plenty long and all but the most elite will likely be around for as long as you want them). I think at least 8+ years is a pretty good run for a player in fantasy so there's no need to start stirring the pot. While you want to keep an eye on the future, no one is most people aren't going to sacrifice present success for future potential.

We'll have to agree to disagree, but going into the first year draft of a dynasty league, which is by far the most important one, not knowing the exact rules you're playing by is even dumber than when we did it with the keeper league. I'm frankly surprised people that are actually in the dynasty league aren't speaking up.