Malazan Book of The Fallen

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Rallick Om Nom Nom

I've had this name so long now I'd almost forgotten where it came from.

Certis wrote:

Now that I'm done the 10th and final book in the series, I'm going to go back and read Gardens of The Moon. It's going to be crazy reading that now knowing how it all wraps up in the end. I bet there's a metric ton of foreshadowing.

I bought the last book and realized I hadn't a clue what was going on, who's who, or what the point of everything was. I remembered enjoying it so this past xmas I just restarted the series... I cant wait to get to that last book on the shelf now

Arise!

The backstory on this is that I read the first two books in this series probably two years ago. I remember them as being incredibly dense and without a lot of explanation of the backstory, but they were interesting.

Fast forward to now, and I'm about 10% of the way through the third book. It's seriously not grabbing me at all. There are several different storylines going on, most of which don't seem to be connected to each other, flashbacks to lord knows when, and references to events from the first book that I only vaguely remember.

Now, I'm cool with the whole "web of plot lines" thing. I've read all of Song of Ice and Fire and liked those, but this is different. In the SoIaF books, it felt like it started with a small number of plotlines and grew in complexity as characters split off from the group. Malazan feels like it started with a billion plots lines, and I'm not able to hang onto any one of them long enough to really get a sense of narrative.

Does it keep going like this, or is there a central narrative thread that develops, and if so, how long does it take to get there? I want to like these books, but reading them kind of feels like work, and that's no fun.

The plot lines slowly start to converge, and there are some pretty big payoffs in later books. But if you're put off by all the plotlines, then you should be warned that there are a lot more coming. There's a whole other continent and a bunch of new factions you haven't even seen yet.

I'm currently re-reading this, and god I love it. The central narrative thread slowly starts to emerge...eventually...but the books still jump around from continent to continent and between different sets of characters all the way through, ignoring entire casts of actors for entire books, all the way through to the last two. If that bothers you, then yeah, it doesn't really get better anytime soon. This is a totally different ballgame from ASoIaF, and is the most challenging fiction I've ever read. But damn, it's good.

Chaz wrote:

Arise!

The backstory on this is that I read the first two books in this series probably two years ago. I remember them as being incredibly dense and without a lot of explanation of the backstory, but they were interesting.

Fast forward to now, and I'm about 10% of the way through the third book. It's seriously not grabbing me at all. There are several different storylines going on, most of which don't seem to be connected to each other, flashbacks to lord knows when, and references to events from the first book that I only vaguely remember.

Now, I'm cool with the whole "web of plot lines" thing. I've read all of Song of Ice and Fire and liked those, but this is different. In the SoIaF books, it felt like it started with a small number of plotlines and grew in complexity as characters split off from the group. Malazan feels like it started with a billion plots lines, and I'm not able to hang onto any one of them long enough to really get a sense of narrative.

Does it keep going like this, or is there a central narrative thread that develops, and if so, how long does it take to get there? I want to like these books, but reading them kind of feels like work, and that's no fun.

In just about every book, the web of plot lines will start converging somewhere after the halfway mark. You are right, keeping track of all the events and characters is very very hard as you start progressing through the series. I'm halfway through book 9 and often forgetting who people are when I see their names.

Dysplastic wrote:

This is a totally different ballgame from ASoIaF, and is the most challenging fiction I've ever read. But damn, it's good.

It really is. I'm only just starting on Dust of Dreams, but the ending of Toll the Hounds was pretty amazing.

Spoiler:

When I finally realized what the Rake, Traveler, Dragnipur, and Hood plotlines were all converging toward it pretty much blew my mind. Especially considering that all the Rake/Dragnipur stuff had been gradually building since book 1.

Funny, mutton, I felt that convergence was actually the most shoehorned and forced of the books so far.

I guess I liked it because it surprised me. I saw the convergence coming, but I thought the outcome was going to be a lot different. It also took place right in the middle of one of the most batsh*t insane sequence of events in any of the books so far, so that was fun too.

Spoiler:

Various Ascendants fighting all over Darujistan. Iskaral Pust and Kruppe riding donkeys into battle against one another and wrestling in the street. A moon exploding for some reason. Karsa's daughters and dog showing up out of nowhere.

I finished the series about a week ago now. I gotta say that it definitely lived up to being epic. All in all it took me a couple of years to get through all 10 books. They require a fair amount of brain power because, like Erickson says, these aren't easy reads and you aren't meant to just blow through them.

Anyway, right now 95% of my stuff is in storage, including 8 of the 10 books, but I went and bought Gardens of the Moon for my phone. My god it's an entirely different series now. Everything I'm reading makes SOOOOOOOOOOO much more sense. So much. It's ... unreal. I love these books. I really do.

garion333 wrote:

I finished the series about a week ago now. I gotta say that it definitely lived up to being epic. All in all it took me a couple of years to get through all 10 books. They require a fair amount of brain power because, like Erickson says, these aren't easy reads and you aren't meant to just blow through them.

Anyway, right now 95% of my stuff is in storage, including 8 of the 10 books, but I went and bought Gardens of the Moon for my phone. My god it's an entirely different series now. Everything I'm reading makes SOOOOOOOOOOO much more sense. So much. It's ... unreal. I love these books. I really do.

where did you buy? Kindle? I did this search once, but it wasnt available for me, albeit was a few years ago at that point.

I'm pretty sure they're all available on kindle now, though they're doing that expensive ebook thing I hate.

After finishing the series I re-read the first three books and like garion says, it's stunning how the narrative in the first books has echoes in the last ones. I'm slapping my forehead and muttering "Oh my god, holy sh*t" a number of times seeing some of the foreshadowing and understanding the characters so much more on the second pass.

Cold comfort if you're struggling through the books for the first time. If you're not going to start at the first one and move through them at a consistent clip, I'd say you either surrender to letting unclear story points slide by or keep a wiki on hand for looking up characters. I did both at times

Chaz wrote:

I'm pretty sure they're all available on kindle now, though they're doing that expensive ebook thing I hate.

Yeah, list price was $15 or so, but the "sale" price was $8. I actually read the sample juuuust to make sure I'd actually be interested in reading them again on my phone and I was, so I paid.

I did my first instance of skipping a chapter ahead because Erickson left me hanging with what was going on inside the Barghast in Dust of Dreams, instead skipping to some other faction. F*ck you, Erickson! You can't gutpunch me like that and then jump to one of the other 30 plotlines.

garion333 wrote:
Chaz wrote:

I'm pretty sure they're all available on kindle now, though they're doing that expensive ebook thing I hate.

Yeah, list price was $15 or so, but the "sale" price was $8. I actually read the sample juuuust to make sure I'd actually be interested in reading them again on my phone and I was, so I paid.

I've had my eye on a couple of compilations which I remember being pretty well priced.

I seriously thought he was just making it all up as he went along. I never had the sense that there was any kind of cohesive vision or thought-out plot.

That's not to say I didn't enjoy the books. Book 2 was one of the best fantasy books I've ever read.

However, I'd recommend quitting at book nine.

However, I'd recommend quitting at book nine.

Pffffft.

Certis wrote:
However, I'd recommend quitting at book nine.

Pffffft.

There it is, folks. Hard-hitting debate, reasoned discourse, just like we've come to expect here at GWJ.

So, I got to yet another Erickson gut-punch 3/5th through book 9.

Spoiler:

Tool and Hetan

Goddammit, Erickson.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

So, I got to yet another Erickson gut-punch 3/5th through book 9.

Spoiler:

Tool and Hetan

Goddammit, Erickson.

Eh, that one wasn't so bad. It certainly was no

Spoiler:

Whiskeyjack. Kallor is up there with Joffrey, little bastard. Though I think at one point they implied that Hood was manipulating the situation so Whiskeyjack never got his leg healed, so he's a douche too.

Yeah, he's really good at those. In book 3, Memories of Ice when

Spoiler:

Whiskeyjack dies

it affected me so much I had to put the book down for a while. Talk about crying manly tears of manliness.

Rallick wrote:

Yeah, he's really good at those. In book 3, Memories of Ice when

Spoiler:

Whiskeyjack dies

it affected me so much I had to put the book down for a while. Talk about crying manly tears of manliness.

I think the ones that really got me were:

Spoiler:

Felisin, Whiskeyjack and Toc Anaster

Yes, those were gutpunches. However,

Spoiler:

Whiskeyjack didn't have his feet cut off and then get raped dozens of times like Hetan. :/

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Yes, those were gutpunches. However,

Spoiler:

Whiskeyjack didn't have his feet cut off and then get raped dozens of times like Hetan. :/

Yeah, that was ... rough.

I forgot that the one that actually bothered me the most at the time was

Spoiler:

Tehol dying, which was quickly relieved when he was resurrected by Mael/Bugg - I really don't think I could have forgiven him for killing off Tehol, who is easily my favorite character in the series. I didn't feel that way about the ASoIAF deaths.

Dysplastic wrote:

I forgot that the one that actually bothered me the most at the time was

Spoiler:

Tehol dying, which was quickly relieved when he was resurrected by Mael/Bugg - I really don't think I could have forgiven him for killing off Tehol, who is easily my favorite character in the series. I didn't feel that way about the ASoIAF deaths.

Yeah, that was an awesome moment. I find I get quite depressed reading his stuff, interspersed with moments of sheer joy. The fact that he manages to elicit these strong emotions speaks volumes about his abilities as an author.

Why did no one tell me Esslemont's Orb Sceptre Throne was out? You all have some splainin' to do.

Certis wrote:

Why did no one tell me Esslemont's Orb Sceptre Throne was out? You all have some splainin' to do.

Largely because I haven't gotten around to reading Stonewielder yet

Tanglebones wrote:
Certis wrote:

Why did no one tell me Esslemont's Orb Sceptre Throne was out? You all have some splainin' to do.

Largely because I haven't gotten around to reading Stonewielder yet :P

Yeah...the Esselmont books are next on the list after I finish my re-read of MBotF and finally finish The Crippled God.