Questions you want answered (P&C Edition)

Minarchist wrote:

goman, I thought you were post-Keynesian.

I am.

There was just a thread where a sizable portion, if not the majority, of the regular posters in this subforum said they considered themselves to be conservative. At the end of that thread people were accusing Paleocon of bashing conservatives. His username is Paleocon for god's sake.

Nomad cited a recent post of mine (which was based on the beliefs of my actual Republican friends!) when arguing that people were bashing conservatives in the thread. Malor considers me an unconscious authoritarian who would cheerlead Auschwitz if the CIA said it was needed. I myself find a lot to applaud in Eisenhower's platform, although I think Nixon and Reagan both should have been impeached for their actions. And yet, with the exception of my misunderstanding of "child murder", I agree with McDonis's list of general issues posted above.

So I think there's something more complicated going on here than "liberals bashing conservatives". At least I can't for the life of me find any such clear positioning on my part. But I will say this - McDonis and some others have been willing to disagree without snark or insults or dismissing, and that goes a long way. Civility is good, even if it's sometimes hard.

Jonman wrote:
Minarchist wrote:

goman, I thought you were post-Keynesian.

Is there such a thing as a hipster-economist?

I think those are the left-anarchists or maybe Malor.... JUST KIDDING BUDDY!!!

School uniforms. Do they stifle individualism turning all the kids into little robots or just encourage kids to differentiate themselves with their actual personalities instead of just their clothing?

Properly done, they promote a sense of belonging.

Kehama wrote:

School uniforms. Do they stifle individualism turning all the kids into little robots or just encourage kids to differentiate themselves with their actual personalities instead of just their clothing?

Neither. False dichotomy there.

Kids are surprisingly resistant to being turned into robots. Takes a lot more than the same T-shirt as everyone else.

Kehama wrote:

School uniforms. Do they stifle individualism turning all the kids into little robots or just encourage kids to differentiate themselves with their actual personalities instead of just their clothing?

Kids feel pressure to dress the same anyway to stay "cool".

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

School uniforms. Do they stifle individualism turning all the kids into little robots or just encourage kids to differentiate themselves with their actual personalities instead of just their clothing?

Kids feel pressure to dress the same anyway to stay "cool".

Having spent my entire schooling up to the age of 18 wearing strictly defined school uniforms, I can speak with some authority on this. There was no ambiguity around which kids were cool and which weren't, even though we all dressed the same. The same teenage pecking orders and social strata were established without using how we dressed to establish them.

There was no stifling of individualism that I discerned. The rugby team still ridiculed the nerds. The stoners still existed.

Jonman has it right.

Jonman wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

School uniforms. Do they stifle individualism turning all the kids into little robots or just encourage kids to differentiate themselves with their actual personalities instead of just their clothing?

Kids feel pressure to dress the same anyway to stay "cool".

Having spent my entire schooling up to the age of 18 wearing strictly defined school uniforms, I can speak with some authority on this. There was no ambiguity around which kids were cool and which weren't, even though we all dressed the same. The same teenage pecking orders and social strata were established without using how we dressed to establish them.

There was no stifling of individualism that I discerned. The rugby team still ridiculed the nerds. The stoners still existed.

I think iaintgotnopants' point wasn't that uniforms eliminate social strata, it's that eliminating uniforms won't automatically make them into expressive little snowflakes--they could just wind up adopting 'unofficial' uniforms dictated by the pecking order.

I remember when I wore a uniform, in the 90's, it was touted as a way to prevent violence in schools. Lots of stories about kids mugged or killed over Air Jordans. I have not seen much proof to that.

When I moved on to High School, same decade. Our dress code was part that we were to get used to dressing in business attire-shirt and tie. Problem is most people go to work in jeans and t-shirt. When I wore a polo or oxford I was asked what I was dressing up for.

At best I think it gives parents some false sense of security at the school, and may craft an air of higher standards. But some pretty appalling charter schools have uniform or dress codes as well. Just to indicate the faulty logic- a school with a metal detector at the door and no dress code is not safe. Go next door where there are uniforms and no metal detectors-that is safe.

Jonman wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

School uniforms. Do they stifle individualism turning all the kids into little robots or just encourage kids to differentiate themselves with their actual personalities instead of just their clothing?

Kids feel pressure to dress the same anyway to stay "cool".

Having spent my entire schooling up to the age of 18 wearing strictly defined school uniforms, I can speak with some authority on this. There was no ambiguity around which kids were cool and which weren't, even though we all dressed the same. The same teenage pecking orders and social strata were established without using how we dressed to establish them.

There was no stifling of individualism that I discerned. The rugby team still ridiculed the nerds. The stoners still existed.

I didn't say uniforms are going to end social stratification. I was just saying that the argument about them stifling individualism doesn't hold weight.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Jonman wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

School uniforms. Do they stifle individualism turning all the kids into little robots or just encourage kids to differentiate themselves with their actual personalities instead of just their clothing?

Kids feel pressure to dress the same anyway to stay "cool".

Having spent my entire schooling up to the age of 18 wearing strictly defined school uniforms, I can speak with some authority on this. There was no ambiguity around which kids were cool and which weren't, even though we all dressed the same. The same teenage pecking orders and social strata were established without using how we dressed to establish them.

There was no stifling of individualism that I discerned. The rugby team still ridiculed the nerds. The stoners still existed.

I didn't say uniforms are going to end social stratification. I was just saying that the argument about them stifling individualism doesn't hold weight.

Me too!

If you really want to stand out from the crowd, strip naked in the middle of class.

Question:

Somewhere in P&C, Robear dumped a ton of links about climate change. I thought it was this thread but it's not. I'm not asking him to redo all that research, jus wondering if someone remembered where that post was.

Seth, I think you're referring to this thread. If it's not mentioned there, also try skepticalscience.com, which has some graduated intros to the topic.

You can always PM me... I don't yell.

That's the one! Thank you!

And yeah I'm not sure why I didn't just PM. I blame this weaksauce coffee.

You could pm me if you want to discuss privately, or post back in the Climate thread, or start a new one. The possibilities are endless!

Robear wrote:

You could pm me if you want to discuss privately, or post back in the Climate thread, or start a new one. The possibilities are endless! :-)

Or just want some cuddly, PM-texting from our lovable Robear!

There is no 1-900-Robearr, thankfully.

Robear wrote:

There is no 1-900-Robearr, thankfully.

WHO WAS I TALKING TO LAST NIGHT?!

I actually had a friend of mine looking for reasonable sources regarding climate change, and rather than reinvent the wheel I directed him to that thread and post you mentioned above.

Well, hopefully it was helpful. There are a lot of links there to useful sites, too.

Robear wrote:
Americans have always had a strong streak of vice, and this tendency is one of the driving forces behind our increasing societal tolerance even as right-leaning moralizers attempted to reverse that trend via government.

So a tolerant society passes strict laws condemning behaviors, and that just shows how tolerant they are, because some of them keep doing the things that the laws prohibit?

No - an intolerant minority in a largely tolerant society attempts to use the government to change people's behavior, usually after failing to convince most of the society of the validity of their cause. The society then keeps on doing what it's doing in the face of those laws because they want to, and sometimes gets up enough momentum to undo those laws.

By this token, a society is tolerant whether or not it passes laws restricting behavior.

Not quite - a society can be tolerant despite bad laws being passed, and vice versa. Societies often do not resemble their governments, for a variety of reasons. A society is not simply the sum of the laws that get passed by a minority of politically active busybodies. It's the sum of how the people interact with each other on a large scale.

Besides, you've just defined even hardcore social conservatives as "tolerant", because they often violate the rules they recommend to others. I dunno, Aetius, I don't think that reasoning works. Just because the Soviet Union had a thriving black market doesn't mean they were capitalists, for example. Just because there was a peace movement in the 1960's and during other wars does not mean we can say that the US is a pacifist nation.

Do you see my point here?

You are again conflating society with government. The U.S. is not a pacifist nation, but U.S. society is very peaceful, and becoming moreso. This is pretty obvious; for example, the difference between how the majority of Americans feel and act towards marijuana and government policy towards marijuana. If you saw someone smoking pot, would you assault him and lock him in a cage? Generally not - most Americans would simply look the other way or even ask him to share. Would a "hardcore social conservative" attack the man and lock him in a cage? Probably not, though in some cases he might call the police to do so.

The reason that minorities are able to get laws passed that affect the whole society is basic public choice theory. Some people decide that "there oughta be a law", so they get together, make noise, lobby, and hound legislators. The people on the other side, who don't care, have no lobby and no one to put pressure on the legislators. The outcome of such a lopsided debate is pretty easy to predict - especially when the legislators are open to making deals to benefit themselves - but it really has little bearing on the opinions and actions of the overall society.

For the heck of it I decided to take one of those online tests that tell you which Presidential candidate you are most aligned with. Apparently I should be voting for Jill Stein of the Green Party followed closely by Barack Obama and then some guy from the Democratic Socialist party. I actually didn't even know the Green Party had settled on a candidate yet. I wonder if these kinds of "tests" are designed to draw attention to other candidates a few of my friends who took the test ended up being most closely aligned with Ron Paul and the like with Mitt and Obama always being listed 2nd or 3rd.

Could anyone recommend me a podcast that'll help me get my head around international relations/current crises like Syria? I know this isn't a political question, but this seems like the forum that would offer the best suggestions.

Kehama wrote:

For the heck of it I decided to take one of those online tests that tell you which Presidential candidate you are most aligned with. Apparently I should be voting for Jill Stein of the Green Party followed closely by Barack Obama and then some guy from the Democratic Socialist party. I actually didn't even know the Green Party had settled on a candidate yet. I wonder if these kinds of "tests" are designed to draw attention to other candidates a few of my friends who took the test ended up being most closely aligned with Ron Paul and the like with Mitt and Obama always being listed 2nd or 3rd.

Can you link to this test?

El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

Could anyone recommend me a podcast that'll help me get my head around international relations/current crises like Syria? I know this isn't a political question, but this seems like the forum that would offer the best suggestions.

Dan Carlin's Common Sense covers a lot of different topics, domestic and international. It's a good listen, although maybe not exactly what you're looking for....

El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

Could anyone recommend me a podcast that'll help me get my head around international relations/current crises like Syria? I know this isn't a political question, but this seems like the forum that would offer the best suggestions.

The Council on Foreign Relations used to do a podcast that covered such things, but they stopped doing those a couple years back.

You might want to try out PRI's The World podcast. It's a joint effort between the BBC, PRI, and WGBH Boston. It's a daily hour-long news show that only covers international news.

OG_slinger wrote:
El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

Could anyone recommend me a podcast that'll help me get my head around international relations/current crises like Syria? I know this isn't a political question, but this seems like the forum that would offer the best suggestions.

The Council on Foreign Relations used to do a podcast that covered such things, but they stopped doing those a couple years back.

You might want to try out PRI's The World podcast. It's a joint effort between the BBC, PRI, and WGBH Boston. It's a daily hour-long news show that only covers international news.

This is the best one I am aware of as well.

El-Taco-the-Rogue wrote:

Could anyone recommend me a podcast that'll help me get my head around international relations/current crises like Syria? I know this isn't a political question, but this seems like the forum that would offer the best suggestions.

I get all my international and current crises news from The Bugle Podcast. The only way I can stomach world news is with a spoonful of satire. And a dumptruck of bullsh*t.