The Secret World

Tannhauser wrote:

I'd be interested, but as a newer player, I think I'm only ready for Polaris and Inferno at this point.

If you're ever on when I'm on, I'm down for some Polaris and Inferno.

Augh, if this MMO tanks I'm going to be an unhappy camper. I guess it'll probably just go free-to-play, and honestly, I wouldn't be too bummed about that, even if I have just lashed out for the lifetime sub. Presumably I'd get some benefits for that, and the game would get an influx of players. But I'm really hoping this survives on the subscription model as long as it can, I think the content model they have going at the moment is a good one, I'd like to see that continue.

This is just a shame

Well, I keep playing and I keep thinking "this should be 3 sp games". Perhaps a lot of people playing it feel that way also.

I'm honestly ignoring all the financial stuff. THere's nothing to be done about it now and frankly I'm getting tired of all the negativity. (with the FC boards and TSW community not here)

I bought the game. I enjoy playing the game. No matter what model they have or move to I am in. Heck, if they go free to play I might get funcom points to use which I don't get now as part of a lifetime.

*shrug*

As long as the company doesn't close and I don't get to play the game anymore then I'm satisfied.

Yeah I'm not saying it isn't newsworthy or won't have an effect on the new content that is rolled out but I am choosing to remain as willfully ignorant of the situation as I can.

What happened? (Honest question, not trolling). This game seemed absolutely amazing and it seems at the drop of a hat it started turning sour? I don't currently play and don't know if I ever will but I still liked reading about the awesomeness that is TSW.

I think the main problem is that this is a niche game but FC played their cards like this would be a popular hit.

They blame the metacritic but really it is the fact that a lot of people who play MMOs don't do so for a challenge and the reviews reflected this. Sure there were problems at launch but I think the biggest problem was FC not anticipating what their audience would be.

Yeah, the design is definitely niche or more old school. This isn't a bread crumb trail game with constant loot.

DeThroned wrote:

What happened? (Honest question, not trolling). This game seemed absolutely amazing and it seems at the drop of a hat it started turning sour? I don't currently play and don't know if I ever will but I still liked reading about the awesomeness that is TSW.

The game is still fun and the questing is great. If the game isn't doing well it isn't because it was the same ole same ole (like Tera).

Yea heaven forbid players are required to think for themselves and do some work on their own. TSW has a special place in my heart because it refuses to hold your hand where in most other games they force feed you the information.

Of course if they did go that route they'd have the same problems because they would then be a boring WoW clone.

This more than anything makes me sad for the future of MMOs.

It is fairly easy to run into a frustrating wall. In the typical Everquest clone, even with a bad build you can generally manage to progress. In TSW, if you hit a wall, you'll get nothing done until you figure out how to fix your build. I used to think that a lot of MMO players were interested in figuring out the math, but I suspect that really isn't true. There is a small percentage who actually enjoy figuring it out, and the rest enjoy using their work (and, far too often, trying to belittle anyone who is doing something different).

I don't know if any of you listen to the Secret World: Uncovered podcast, but they talked a lot about this in the latest 'cast.

They spent a lot of time blasting Metacritic but did acknowledge that FunCom's expectations for the game may have been a bit optimistic. FunCom basically had forecast that they would sell around 1 million copies of the game in the first year with a retention rate of 30 - 40%. They are now saying that they expect to sell less than half that.

On the other hand, they have sold more of the upgrade packs than they expected, the cash store is doing as well as expected and their retention rate so far is actually higher than they projected (they didn't say how much higher though).

The game is a niche game and seems to be doing well in its niche. While disappointing, it isn't time to start sounding the warning bells yet.

This is it. I really like the game because it's got such a huge variety of skill combos, and there's definitely room to screw yourself by picking poor combos. You might not even know it until you try to transition to the next major area.

But they've made it easy to go back a bit and get more skill points. Doesn't take long and in my opinion any screwup can be fixed. It's refreshing to get a game that makes you think every now and then.

I had a feeling it wouldn't review well. A player has to approach the game with a certain level of forgiveness. If one goes into the game taking the armchair reviewer approach there are plenty of shortcoming to tear apart.

On the other hand, the story, quests and atmosphere are amazing. If you have interest in the setting (and what nerd who grew up reading Lovecraft and King in the '80s and '90s wouldn't love the setting), you'll enjoy the game. Part of the reason I bought the lifetime sub was to be able to play the game at my own pace without the standard MMO race to the finish line.

TheArtOfScience wrote:

I'm honestly ignoring all the financial stuff. THere's nothing to be done about it now and frankly I'm getting tired of all the negativity. (with the FC boards and TSW community not here)

I bought the game. I enjoy playing the game. No matter what model they have or move to I am in. Heck, if they go free to play I might get funcom points to use which I don't get now as part of a lifetime.

*shrug*

As long as the company doesn't close and I don't get to play the game anymore then I'm satisfied.

I generally don't pay too much attention to this type of stuff either. But the stock hit they took is bound to have some effect on the future of this game. And Funcom's future in general.

ranalin wrote:

Yea heaven forbid players are required to think for themselves and do some work on their own. TSW has a special place in my heart because it refuses to hold your hand where in most other games they force feed you the information.

I can't say I'm shocked that the game didn't review well. Again, I love the game now, but after my first beta weekend I was very lukewarm on the game. It's definitely not a "wow 'em from the first screen" kinda' game. The quest bugs that could halt you in your tracks were annoying and the chat features are still borked.

I also don't see the wider audience getting all goose pimply from having to look up Hebrew symbols on Google while then cross-referencing those with passages from the book of Exodus while also figuring out the order various Egyptian minor deities were introduced into the structure of the 3rd kingdom. I think the bulk of players would rather line up headshots or kill the same monsters over and over for the chance at a purple item.

TSW grabs hard-core puzzle games by the lapels, slaps them in the face a few times, calls them pansies and then tosses them down in the alley while pocketing their lunch money. You don't see these kinds of puzzles in most games and I could definitely see them turning people off.

As someone who put this in my cart twice already and never pulled the trigger...color me not surprised it's tanking. After SWTOR started tanking i really couldn't see a future for TSW after learning more about the actual gameplay and such.

I can't help thinking this coulda been a big huge success if designed as a single player open world game in a 3 part release at say 30 bucks a part with online co-op and pvp arena play included.

But really, i can't help imagining there's millions of other players out there like me going...i really dont wanna play another MMO Clone level up experienced! NOT AGAIN! Especially only to see the player base die off and the time requirement to continue skyrocket with difficult and long content at high levels.

Fuzzballx wrote:

But really, i can't help imagining there's millions of other players out there like me going...i really dont wanna play another MMO Clone level up experienced! NOT AGAIN! Especially only to see the player base die off and the time requirement to continue skyrocket with difficult and long content at high levels.

But it's not a clone. The only thing it comes close to resembling is GW/GW2 with you being limited to a certain number of active/passive abilities. 14 in all.
If anyone thinks it's a clone they're listening to the wrong people and not paying attention. Granted this could be a failing on Funcom's part.

It almost seems like they've shot themselves in the foot again by going to the other end of the spectrum with their marketing. With AoC they lambasted the world starting a good 3 months before launch and good month afterwards. It was the greatest thing since sliced bread according to their marketing. Obviously with the flaws that were in AoC made them standing there with an awkward grin, and made people hit them harder than what was justified. This time around with TSW they've barely said squat during the entire process, and now people dont understand or know what makes up the game or that it even exists. Bizarre.

I hope they don't water down all the wonderful puzzles and investigation stuff in future content (assuming there is any) simply to draw in more of the masses though sadly I could see it going that route without considering that they may be casting out their core fan base in the process. How much influence does EA have over these things now that it's been released?

On another note this game has reminded me of how much I enjoy 5 person dungeons, even with pubs they've been really fun experiences. I know a raid system is in the works but I'm kind of hoping I can avoid it as that style of play just doesn't seem to appeal to me.

krev82 wrote:

I hope they don't water down all the wonderful puzzles and investigation stuff in future content (assuming there is any) simply to draw in more of the masses though sadly I could see it going that route without considering that they may be casting out their core fan base in the process. How much influence does EA have over these things now that it's been released?

On another note this game has reminded me of how much I enjoy 5 person dungeons, even with pubs they've been really fun experiences. I know a raid system is in the works but I'm kind of hoping I can avoid it as that style of play just doesn't seem to appeal to me.

I agree with this and raise you a need for a dungeon finder tool.

I don't think it's tanking, and certainly it's not "just another clone mmo".

I'm more concerned with the stock price tanking and investors stepping away. The game is awesome and definitely has a strong player fan base (if smaller than hoped), but Funcom needs to stay in business and have decent cash flow to be able to support the game longterm.

Robear wrote:

I don't think it's tanking, and certainly it's not "just another clone mmo".

Agreed, I think we are just seeing the post release bubble burst. Happens all the time unless you have the #1 mega hit of the year.

I don't understand some of the comments here.

First, what does stock price have to do with Funcom having cash? Funcom gets cash from customers giving them money. Not from leaches speculating on how much that money is going to be.

So, they didn't sell a million copies. Whoopty doo. They are quite clear that they are making more money from the actual money-making part of their business plan, which is recurring subs and the online store. Where are people getting that the game is tanking?

Another thing: if you haven't played this game, it is clear by now that most reviews are absolute sh*te at explaining what the game is. So basing your opinion on such reviews... well, you know what they say, junk in, junk out.

There is nothing wrong with being a niche game, assuming you know your customer. And it seems Funcom is listening to their niche customers, so far. You need an example of a niche game that's doing-just-fine-thank-you-very-much? Check out A Tale in the Desert. Some 10 years ago their business plan was built around 5000 niche subscribers. Apparently he was laughed out of every venture capital meeting. 10 years later, they are still paying salaries and keeping the game going. So don't be fooled by numbers. Loyal fan base that's willing to pay for niche content can be quite a force (Kickstarter anyone?).

I will say this MoonDragon, I don't think I have ever seen a game with reviews as poorly done as this game.

Half the reviews are from people who obviously didnt understand the game and the other half are from people who don't seem to have actually played the game.

I normally pshaw that stuff but it actually pissed me off about this game because the reviews are just WRONG. At least objectively.

I almost wrote a big rant on the Gaming forum here calling metacritic bullsh*t because...well... it's bullsh*t. The fact that a game's success is so tied to such a broken and easily manipulated system is a major issue with the industry and it's got to come to a head eventually.

If you really want to get riled up about Metacritic, listen to the Uncovered podcast's rant on it. They go into things about how one of the big sites had the game reviewed by their sports game reviewer (and he gave it a bad score). Another reviewer that Metacritic weights heavily (based on the number of reviews he has submitted) admitted that he only played the game for an hour in early beta and called it a sandbox game (and gave it a bad score). Apparently a lot of the scores Metacritic is using are based on early beta play (when, to be fair, things were broken but, beta).

Uncovered wrote:

Following the launch of The Secret World on the 3rd of July 2012, Funcom’s share price has decreased significantly. The company attributes this mostly to the aggregate review score, the “Metascore”, for the game at MetaCritic (www.metacritic.com) together with other public sources for tracking the performance of games.

While there are very positive reviews, there are as well mixed or average reviews from various press outlets, giving an aggregated score for The Secret World of 72 out of 100, which is to be considered low, and not in line with the positive feedback received during the beta phases from both press and players. Funcom is of course disappointed with achieving such a Metascore. A game like The Secret World, which is not based on a well-known brand, is normally dependent on positive press reviews to achieve successful initial sales, in addition – but not limited – to other factors like word of mouth.

See this is why I want to remain willfully ignorant because that is just pissing me off.

Resisting the urge to rage about Metacritic in P&C, lol.

MoonDragon wrote:

You need an example of a niche game that's doing-just-fine-thank-you-very-much? Check out A Tale in the Desert. Some 10 years ago their business plan was built around 5000 niche subscribers. Apparently he was laughed out of every venture capital meeting. 10 years later, they are still paying salaries and keeping the game going. So don't be fooled by numbers. Loyal fan base that's willing to pay for niche content can be quite a force (Kickstarter anyone?).

Don't get me started!
A Tale in the Desert had about 700 subscribers at the height of this recent telling. And salaries? Only one person is drawing a salary, and I'm not even sure what her job is... The dev team is flipping pizzas for a living because he's not getting a dime from the game.

But that's beside the point. I think we can all agree that the reviews are full of sh*te, but they tend to have real consequences when it comes to investors, etc.