Steam - It's Not Just for Windows and Macs Anymore

pneuman wrote:

That's a more reasonable idea, but I think the delta between that and a standard Ubuntu system is so small as to make it mostly pointless. It's already pretty damn easy to install the NVIDIA/AMD binary drivers in Ubuntu, and if Steam is made available via APT -- especially if it's in Canonical's standard repository for third-party commercial apps, assuming both Valve and Canonical are happy to have it there -- then it would be easy to install Steam, too.

Pointless for you and me. Not pointless for people who aren't already Linux users.

Having the binary drivers installed would be huge. Yes, it's "easy" to install them, but that's provided that you know something needs to be done. (The restricted driver installer is nice, but it's still too techno-cryptic for a lot of users).

A Ubuntu spinoff where, upon completed install, all gaming-important restricted drivers are installed, and the Steam window pops up on first boot for login, would definitely be worthwhile. It's more like a customized Ubuntu installer than a separate distro.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Teehee, a comment from open source's resident crazy, RMS:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/nonfr...

Nonfree game programs (like other nonfree programs) are unethical because they deny freedom to their users. (Game art is a different issue, because it isn't software.) If you want freedom, one requisite for it is not having nonfree programs on your computer. That much is clear.

It's his makebelieve world. Leave the man alone and let him have his fun.

By the way, non-cake desserts are unethical because they deny cake to their eaters. (Frosting art is a different issue, because it isn't cake.) If you want cake, one requisite for it is not having non-cake desserts in your home. That much is clear.

*Legion* wrote:
pneuman wrote:

That's a more reasonable idea, but I think the delta between that and a standard Ubuntu system is so small as to make it mostly pointless. It's already pretty damn easy to install the NVIDIA/AMD binary drivers in Ubuntu, and if Steam is made available via APT -- especially if it's in Canonical's standard repository for third-party commercial apps, assuming both Valve and Canonical are happy to have it there -- then it would be easy to install Steam, too.

Pointless for you and me. Not pointless for people who aren't already Linux users.

Having the binary drivers installed would be huge. Yes, it's "easy" to install them, but that's provided that you know something needs to be done. (The restricted driver installer is nice, but it's still too techno-cryptic for a lot of users).

A Ubuntu spinoff where, upon completed install, all gaming-important restricted drivers are installed, and the Steam window pops up on first boot for login, would definitely be worthwhile. It's more like a customized Ubuntu installer than a separate distro.

It sounds like a post-install "make Steam work on my PC" tool would be more practical than a customised installer in that case. That reduces the setup steps to just downloading and running that setup tool. If that's too much for people, then like I said before, Linux probably isn't for them; it doesn't matter how easy you make the setup if they're not willing to learn and adapt, since they'll just end up rejecting Linux the next time they need to install something.

If the purpose of the distro is more to give people a quick taste of Linux, and to let them find out if Linux actually works well enough on their hardware to be worth the effort of installing, then a live DVD would be a better option. On boot, it could automagically set up the drivers, etc., prompt you to nominate a directory on your Windows drive for storing the downloaded games, and then launch Steam and start downloading. I think this would be best left as a community effort, though -- I want Valve to focus on making the best software they can for Linux, rather than trying to make Linux itself easier to try for new users.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Teehee, a comment from open source's resident crazy, RMS:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/nonfr...

Nonfree game programs (like other nonfree programs) are unethical because they deny freedom to their users. (Game art is a different issue, because it isn't software.) If you want freedom, one requisite for it is not having nonfree programs on your computer. That much is clear.

Good ole' Stalman

Gotta have at least one zealot in every group.

Oh please oh please come out this year, Steam! Would love to make the switch completely to Linux.

BTW, for those with Macs and Windows, do the games cross-over? Meaning, say I buy CivV on my Windows machine, if I load up Steam in Linux will I be able to run the Linux version or will I have to buy it again?

They do, you only have to buy them once to play on any platform.

However your example wouldn't work because there's no Civ V linux version. It will only be L4D2 for now. The games listed here are also good potential future candidates.

parallaxview wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Teehee, a comment from open source's resident crazy, RMS:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/nonfr...

Nonfree game programs (like other nonfree programs) are unethical because they deny freedom to their users. (Game art is a different issue, because it isn't software.) If you want freedom, one requisite for it is not having nonfree programs on your computer. That much is clear.

Good ole' Stalman

Gotta have at least one zealot in every group.

Remember when he gave a talk at our campus? Fun times that.

mwdowns wrote:

Oh please oh please come out this year, Steam! Would love to make the switch completely to Linux.

BTW, for those with Macs and Windows, do the games cross-over? Meaning, say I buy CivV on my Windows machine, if I load up Steam in Linux will I be able to run the Linux version or will I have to buy it again?

It depends on the game. Currently, games that are Mac/Windows cross-compatible are labeled as SteamPlay titles. You buy it once, you get it on both platforms. There are, however, a few Mac games that have made an appearance on the Apple AppStore that don't have SteamPlay versions available (Arkham Asylum and Deus Ex: Human Revolution to name two). So just because a Linux version of a game on Steam exists, you won't necessarily get access to it through Steam on Linux.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

There are, however, a few Mac games that have made an appearance on the Apple AppStore that don't have SteamPlay versions available (Arkham Asylum and Deus Ex: Human Revolution to name two). So just because a Linux version of a game on Steam exists, you won't necessarily get access to it through Steam on Linux.

Borderlands is another one. Not sure about AA and DX:HR but the Borderlands port was done by another company (Aspyr I think) and uses Cider. Not sure if that makes a difference in terms of Steam Play support.

I would expect any game that's been in the Humble Indie Bundle will have Linux support on Steam at launch or soon after since that's requirement (or so it seems) for inclusion in their bundles. All those bundles have Steam keys associated with them.

shoptroll wrote:

Remember when he gave a talk at our campus? Fun times that.

Lol, indeed.

Yeah, sorry, CivV was a bad example. I was just wondering about the cross-over. Got a bunch of game from Humble Bundles and such and wanted to know if they'd carry over.

mwdowns wrote:

Yeah, sorry, CivV was a bad example. I was just wondering about the cross-over. Got a bunch of game from Humble Bundles and such and wanted to know if they'd carry over.

Those I think would slide over with no problem as the linux version is always available.

Well, now that Linux gaming is gaining ground, who wants to go with me to help the next mistreated platform, FreeBSD gaming?
A dev doesn't have to worry about supporting thousands of distros.
Most Linux programs already work on it anyway.
Arguably better network performance.

This seems like a decent Steam catch-all topic...

New Steam Community page

4 days of new features announcements, and then beta.

Today

Game Hubs are collections of game-centric discussions, workshop items, screenshots, videos, and news. It’s both community created and official content, as rated by you, Steam users.

Hmm. Interesting. I'm not sure I like the "Every game has a hub!" thing. I think it would also be good to have genre-centered hubs. (Roguelikes! Space games! etc.)

But at the most basic, this is bringing things together that have been kind of messily separated (forums vs. store), which is good.

Stele wrote:

This seems like a decent Steam catch-all topic...

New Steam Community page

4 days of new features announcements, and then beta.

Today

Game Hubs are collections of game-centric discussions, workshop items, screenshots, videos, and news. It’s both community created and official content, as rated by you, Steam users.

I think this is a longer standing Steam new features thread.

Ah couldn't find it. Thought there was one, but it wasn't tagged Valve or Steam.

Cool. I should drop them a note that I could help beta-test; I've got a complete hardware Linux installation on my main desktop, ready to go. It's a very fast machine, should be a great way to see how well games run in Linux, as opposed to Windows.

If I could game for real in Linux, and could find a UI that I liked again, I could easily switch. I like Win7 because it's comfortable, fast, and has excellent games, but switching would be quite low-pain for me.

Linux is a hard platform to ship closed binaries on, though. Open source stuff gets fixed up by the community to work on their distros of choice, but binary-only stuff doesn't get touched, and tends to bitrot very quickly. The Linux kernel itself is a marvel of maintaining backward compatibility, but just about every layer above that breaks things on a routine basis, so keeping a binary running for any real length of time takes ongoing maintenance.

I suppose there's always static compilation; that fixes many issues.

edit: Well, actually, I'd like a sound system that worked better. You can usually get stereo out of most Linux distros without too much trouble, if you're on motherboard hardware, but as soon as you get into anything the tiniest bit esoteric, like multiple sound channels, or unusual sound hardware, god help you.

Sweet. Another, be it small, step forward.

Malor wrote:

Linux is a hard platform to ship closed binaries on, though. Open source stuff gets fixed up by the community to work on their distros of choice, but binary-only stuff doesn't get touched, and tends to bitrot very quickly. The Linux kernel itself is a marvel of maintaining backward compatibility, but just about every layer above that breaks things on a routine basis, so keeping a binary running for any real length of time takes ongoing maintenance.

I suppose there's always static compilation; that fixes many issues.

Yep, there are definitely strategies that developers can use, from partial static linking through to just shipping their own builds of most of the libraries they use, to build a binary that will survive a bunch of underlying changes, so I don't think this is as big a deal as you might think.

Malor wrote:

edit: Well, actually, I'd like a sound system that worked better. You can usually get stereo out of most Linux distros without too much trouble, if you're on motherboard hardware, but as soon as you get into anything the tiniest bit esoteric, like multiple sound channels, or unusual sound hardware, god help you.

I'm not sure how suitable for gaming PulseAudio is (though I suspect it would work just fine), but it solves a lot of the usability issues around audio on the Linux desktop.

Valve Linux Steam Client Beta Application
http://www.valvesoftware.com/linuxsurvey.php

Thanks, Sparhawk! I signed up.

Likewise! Really hoping I get in to the beta.

I've never used Linux before, but I understand that Ubuntu is the most newbie-friendly, yes? Anything I can do to help progress PC gaming to a more open (non-Windows) platform is a worthy cause IMO. One of the questions on that beta survery asks "What Linux desktop manager are you using?" What option on that list would you guys recommend I use/choose?

Regarding the next question - "Do you currently use Wine to play games on Linux?" - I would assume the best answer to that is "yes," as I've gotten the impression that Wine is commonly/widely used.

Wine is commonly used indeed. Just cannot make it all work of course.

Ubuntu is the more user friendly. Then again, I haven't tried many other releases to be honest.

I said 'no' on Wine, because Wine kinda sucks. It's better than nothing, but I'd rather just boot into Windows than use Wine.

MeatMan wrote:

One of the questions on that beta survery asks "What Linux desktop manager are you using?" What option on that list would you guys recommend I use/choose?

Unity is the default desktop environment with Ubuntu now, so that would be what you'll use unless you go out of your way to try others.

Malor wrote:

I said 'no' on Wine, because Wine kinda sucks. It's better than nothing, but I'd rather just boot into Windows than use Wine.

On that note, on October 31 Codeweavers is giving away free 12 month licenses for Crossover, their commercial wine product. (as they did for the last presidential election) I don't really know how it compares to the free Wine, but combined with the imminent Steam beta it might be a good opportunity to try a full switch for any brave souls out there.