2012/13 Soccer Thread

Well then, if we are going to judge which team is better solely on who won, then I guess you just made my argument for me.

Football is about results.

"If you want entertainment, go and watch clowns."

I don't know if I'd say that Portugal is a better team (I think they are the weaker team) but they played like they wanted to win much more than the Spanish team did. Can't wait to see the game tonight, hopefully it won't go into extra-time so I will be able to function tomorrow without too many cups of coffee.

davet010 wrote:

Football is about results.

"If you want entertainment, go and watch clowns."

Bit prosaic I know. But when you've watched a team fail for 35 years, sometimes in a way that would even have the most optimistic think that they are doing it deliberately to wind you up, then the end product becomes the only thing that matters.

UCRC wrote:

The only stat where they've beaten Spain yesterday was interceptions and attempted clearances. And fouls committed.

you mean a team playing counter attack against the tiki taka was beat in possession? Looks like they beat them in the 3 stats they would of wanted to beat them on. I already went over this in a previous post but that was Portugals game. My point was Portugal played better as a team IMO. They had a strategy and pretty much executed it well. Bento came short IMO with his subs (mostly timing), PK choices and especially on not hammering the Spanish from the corner.

edit: and Cesc is losing all his goodwill very quickly since going to Barca.

But where was that, uh, betterness you keep referring to? I get that they didn't have t had most of possession, but when you're counter-attacking, I guess you have to be judged on creating chances. Goalscoring chances, through balls, crosses put in, shots. They were trailing Spanish in every regard.
It's true they had strategy and did everything right, but that still made them distinctly second-best.

UCRC wrote:

But where was that, uh, betterness you keep referring to? I get that they didn't have t had most of possession, but when you're counter-attacking, I guess you have to be judged on creating chances. Goalscoring chances, through balls, crosses put in, shots. They were trailing Spanish in every regard.
It's true they had strategy and did everything right, but that still made them distinctly second-best.

were confusing each other.

I would hardly say they were distinctly second best. It was a controlled game and fairly shortsighted to point out Portugals lack of chances when Spain forced one great save?

What I mean by Portugal is a better team is that if you look at the sum of their parts they have to be better to even take Spain to penalties and 2 posts from beating them. Once you get past the obvious names of Portugal your talking about allot of players from the domestic league. Some of them might not be there after the performances they put in but the gulf between talent of the two countries is fairly large. Talking about a team dominated by Real and Barca players.

With that said Spain are going to have to really put in a performance their next game to win IMO. If they continue with this conservative tiki taka that were supposed to praise them for they are going to get gutted. I don't care if possession is 90%. Quality possession in dangerous spots and real chances is what matters. Funny thing is if they go on to win hardly anyone will remember they were out of the tournament if that Croatian player could of put his header low.

Wow, I must really have been watching a different game to UCRC, as I didn't see Portugal as anything like second-best to Spain until extra time, when the effort of chasing them down told badly (Meireles could hardly get off the pitch). I don't think Spain created that many chances in the 90 minutes, and as I said at the time, Portugal could easily have won in the final few minutes.

I can see why Spain don't start with a recognised striker if they thought Negredo was the answer - things that move as little as he did usual end up with dogs peeing on them.

Why always him ?

Christ, that second shot was past Neuer before he'd registered that Mario had shot.

davet010 wrote:

Why always him ?

Christ, that second shot was past Neuer before he'd registered that Mario had shot.

What's the appropriate bit of classic commentary to describe that? "He's got a foot like a traction engine!" or "Look at his face! Just look at his face!"

I did not have that, personally. I think Italy-Spain is going to be a very, very interesting final, given how well Italy nullified Germany. Interesting from a tactical perspective I mean, no more than two goals will be scored in that game, I assure you.

Great game. I'm absolutely in love with Pirlo.

Prederick wrote:
davet010 wrote:

Why always him ?

Christ, that second shot was past Neuer before he'd registered that Mario had shot.

What's the appropriate bit of classic commentary to describe that? "He's got a foot like a traction engine!" or "Look at his face! Just look at his face!"

Never heard the first one before. And DO NOT EVER USE that second one in my hearing, since it was Barry Davies' commentary on a Francis Lee goal for Derby against his old club...Man City.

I thought Germany in the first half had just turned up arrogantly expecting to batter Italy. But Khedira and Ozil were outhustled (which does happen in Spain as well, Mourinho doesn't seem to trust Ozil and always withdraws him), and Badstuber was badly exposed as a rather poor defender. Podolski and Gomez looked very static as well.

lol, there's a game that I am sure Davet was more than happy to have his prediction be suckerpunched by.

My my my, that was a colossal tactical clusterfunk Jogi Löw delivered. Using Kroos as pseudo-right-winger who ended up trying to chase Pirlo was a completely stupid gamble. He should have replaced Schweinsteiger again, who totally underperformed in 3 out of 4 Euro matches. Özil was stronger than it may appear for a variety of reasons, but he usually plays best when there are other people around who not can only receive passes, but are equally agile and technically good. Klose is that type of player (as are Ronaldo and Benzema at Real) - Gomez is not. Reus totally is that type of player. Kroos is not. Reus and Schürle are speedy enoigh to rip through the other team's defense. Podolski and Kroos aren't. Podolski, like Schweinsteiger, was rather disappointing throughout the tournament.

Hummels didn't cover himself in glory either. For me he was more at fault than for the first goal, giving Cassano space to turn and cross.

I'm rooting for Italy in the final. Mostly for Pirlo-related reasons, but also for their willingness to attack in the second half. 3-0 would be a more fair scoreline on basis of chances created.

Oh, no kidding, although Badstuber definitely didn't shine either. The two goals were the results of embarrassing screw-ups - and compared to the match against England, Balotelli clearly was not in the mood to waste opportunities once more.

Yeah, based on the previous matches, I too am rooting for Italy. I *gasp* am actually liking the way they're playing these days. Good match against Spain, followed by two mediocre performances, and then again a very good match against England. That's coming from someone who suffered through every single minute of the WC 1994 finale.

Thus, it's potential history in the final no matter who wins. Either Spain win three titles in a row, or we all safely conclude that every single match-fixing scandal in Italy does nothing but give their national team super tournament-winning powers.

Wowzers didnt see that coming but then again thats the beauty of the game. Super Marios coming out party if he can spearhead the Azzuri past Spain.

Italy have a real shot also as they might be the only country who brought a legitimate striker to the tournament.

At the very least lets hope Italy go up 1-0 and the excitement begins. 1-0 Spain and neutrals will be treated to boredom by a thousand passes.

At least it was a good game, and game me hope that if Italy plays as well against Spain they have a very good chance of winning. Very disappointed in the German effort, especially to start the game.

Prederick wrote:

Thus, it's potential history in the final no matter who wins. Either Spain win three titles in a row, or we all safely conclude that every single match-fixing scandal in Italy does nothing but give their national team super tournament-winning powers.

Soooo.....by that logic they should win every tournament ?

Due to the unique way it is funded....the BBC is unable to employ proper sub-editors.

IMAGE(http://www.bluevibe.co.uk/userfiles/image/mario%20the%20german.JPG)

I'm expecting today's game to be congested and fairly boring with both teams tending to play very narrow.

I'm hoping for Spain to win if only for the "3 straight major titles" thing and being able to see that. That said I wouldn't be upset if Italy won. Both teams have their scumbags and their brilliant players so I can't separate them there.

Hopefully one of the teams uses some width and opens up the game that way.

Spain always uses width. To me them and Germany use lateral passes most often on the attack. Problem with Spain on this tournament is rather with penetration, I'd say.

So my punditry is as good as Alan Shearer's. Couple of great goals.

Italy were too slow, too tired and the jig was pretty much up when Spain scored first. They did have a few shots and might have made a little bit more of a contest of it had Alba not scored before half time. That effectively ended the game as a contest.

Bit unlucky for Italy that they lost Chiellini and then Tiago Motta to injury, but if you had a look at the Italian players, they were puffing and blowing after an hour.

I'm very happy with that final. I guess everybody was fearing a scenario where Spain would play the same stuff they did in their previous games and win simply by perseverance. Fair play to them for raising their game. I feel sorry for Italians because they were clearly story of the tournament and no one would begrudge them a win. Still, a good final.

Congrats, Spain! Well-deserved, no doubt about it. It's not like Italy was embarrassingly bad or delivered huge blunders like Germany in their match against them. The first goal simply was a stunning piece of precision, pace explosion, timing, and coordination between Iniesta, Fabregas, and Silva. One of the finest goals of the tournament. Alba's path and anticipation, and Xavi's murderous pass were just as impressive as the way the fourth goal was executed.

I felt really bad for Italy when Motta had to leave the match just four minutes after he had entered. After all, the first substitution had already been forced due to Chiellini's injury. You could really see Prandelli's face go "Well, that's it. And we still have to face this machine of team another 30 minutes..."

Glad to see Spain win, felt really bad for the Italians in the last 30 minutes. Italy didn't create any clear-cut chances but they had a few good shots on target. If I can go into Shearer-mode again it seemed like Spain marked Pirlo very tightly when Italy were trying to play the ball at the back - Xavi or Fabregas were usually close by.

Overall a much better match than I was expecting, shame about the last half-hour. That Xavi ball for Alba was terrific - I thought he had waited too long and Alba was offside but it looks like it was just perfect.

Time for the silly transfer season to start. I hope Debuchy didn't raise his profile to price himself out of Newcastle since we've been linked with him for a few months now.

Shame to see Italy, after so many years of feigned injuries, suffer two key ones in the final.

Was impressed to see Balotelli still fighting (without tantrums, even) until quite late in the game.

If this is a sign he's starting to get his head straight, City are going to be *really* formidable next season.

Spain. So good it's kinda unfair.