The Collapse of 38 Studios

Yeah, that article seems to paint a clearer picture that Curt was more of a cheerleader for the company and not as responsible for day-to-day management decisions as some people have made him out to be. Still does not paint a pretty picture about the overall management team, though.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

Perspective from some anonymous insiders.

They paint the situation as Curt Schilling being one of the good guys who was unfortunately very naive and put a lot of trust in politicians and managers in his own company who largely are responsible for screwing the place over. The claim is that the company was relying on constantly securing new investment deals to keep things funded and that while progress was being made, they needed yet more deals to reach the finish line and none materialised, though apparently they were right on the edge of one which is why no one was told about missing payroll until the last minute. If true, I do admire Schilling trying his damndest to keep the ship afloat, though basing your business plan around the hope that you'll keep finding more people willing to pour money into it doesn't sound ideal either.

That's a heartbreaking article.

I have to say, all the quotes I've heard from ex-38 and BHG employees have been fairly unanimous in praising Schilling. I've worked with "idea people" before - charismatic dreamers who think big but trust that somebody else is actually crunching the numbers and making their dreams fiscally feasible. You need both kinds to excel in business, I think, the yin and the yang of innovation. This is what happens when the business side and the visionary side fall badly out of sync.

Very sad for all the people who have faith in the Captain of their corporate ship, rowing with all their might on a vessel they can't possibly keep afloat.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

Perspective from some anonymous insiders.

Kurt seems like a dick to me.

He may have acted like a nice guy to employees' faces, and it sounds as if he was well liked, but actions surely speak louder than words. His company was horribly mismanaged, with a laughably unsustainable funding model, and he didn't see fit to replace the management before it drove the thing right off a cliff.

The biggest dick move? He didn't even tell the truth about the company's prospects to the employees. That's almost always a sign that you're working for a sh*tty company.

Why did he make such a sh*tty company? He probably didn't mean to - but that doesn't make the company any less sh*tty in the end.

Apparently there was a PWC audit that questioned the ability for 38 Studios to continue as a going concern and that happened LAST year during the summer.

Big Huge Games saved again, by Epic!

Gotta' say, did not see that coming! Show me another industry that would do something like this. Kudos to Epic for finding a way to make this work.

Whoah. Here's hoping for the best. Particularly in the face of an Amalur-esque game based on a "completely new IP".

Kurt seems like a dick to me.

He may have acted like a nice guy to employees' faces, and it sounds as if he was well liked, but actions surely speak louder than words. His company was horribly mismanaged,

Well, argh. It's quite possible to be in charge of a company and not really know how to be in charge of a company. He probably hired people that said they knew how, and he was too inexpert to determine that they were feeding him big fat lies. From what I've been able to determine, all the guy truly knew was baseball.

I think it's fair to call him clueless, so much so that it did a lot of damage to a lot of people, but I don't think it's fair to call him a dick. At least, not with the info we presently have available.

Malor wrote:

I think it's fair to call him clueless, so much so that it did a lot of damage to a lot of people, but I don't think it's fair to call him a dick. At least, not with the info we presently have available.

Right. I'm no fan of the man, but being a dick would require something outwardly insensitive and spiteful, like him laying everyone off in video teleconference between alternate mouthfuls of steak and lobster. It seems more like he may have been woefully naive in his choices of whom he let actually run the company, although it's important not to confuse naiveté with being free of responsibility. One has to wonder if he ever strongly considered what action he'd take if things started to go south, and what sort of cycle of denial may have gone on between himself and his execs.

There's a very even tempered discussion about this on the latest Bombcast. They talk specifically about some things that indicate that Schilling may very well have been fairly depressed and stressed out before this stuff all went public. I found it to be one of the more fair and unbiased discussions I've heard about the whole thing.

Parallax Abstraction wrote:

Big Huge Games saved again, by Epic!

Gotta' say, did not see that coming! Show me another industry that would do something like this. Kudos to Epic for finding a way to make this work.

I continually find Epic to be one of the more likeable studios around, regardless of the games they're making at a given time. This actually isn't nearly as surprising to me as it might have been if it was some other studio in the savior role.

Thin_J wrote:

I found it to be one of the more fair and unbiased discussions I've heard about the whole thing.

Completely agree. I really like Paul Barnett.

demonbox wrote:
Thin_J wrote:

I found it to be one of the more fair and unbiased discussions I've heard about the whole thing.

Completely agree. I really like Paul Barnett.

This is kinda funny, because I didn't realize there had been another episode and hadn't even listened to that one yet, but if they talked about it again and it applies to the new episode too, well that's a happy coincidence

Huh, I didn't realize those guys did Bulletstorm, which was a real surprise for me last year -- picked it up on mega-sale, and ended up enjoying it way more than I expected. I don't really like Gears of War too much, but I'm going to have to keep an eye on them now.

That's great news about BHG! I'm still playing Amalur and enjoying it. It's a quality game, and I'm looking forward to seeing (I hope) a sequel with some of the problems Reckoning had worked out. The entire situation at 38 Studios seems to have been floating on a big pool of overreaching and delusion, unfortunately. I agree that the discussion on Giant Bombcast was good. One of the points that stuck with me was that if you're always having to depend on finding ANOTHER source of funding, then your situation was never really stable to begin with. Don't know enough about the economics of game companies, but that's a prudent statement.

Interesting article on QT3 - http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/201...

Thin_J wrote:

I continually find Epic to be one of the more likeable studios around, regardless of the games they're making at a given time. This actually isn't nearly as surprising to me as it might have been if it was some other studio in the savior role.

Epic has been making moves like this lately, though. They have to be getting a lot of money from EA, THQ, Ubisoft, and Warner Bros., and decided to start making more games rather than just UE and Gears of War. It makes perfect sense, especially if they can get some established IP with it.

Don't forget all the capital they gain from leasing the UDK. I'm betting that's one of, if not the largest revenue stream for Epic.

Its a shame because there is probably enough there that if the IP and Assets were turned over to a seasoned shop... even with just a few key individuals this MMO could still probably launch.. as a F2P it might generate something.. and really ANYTHING positive back would go some ways to paying back the investors and RI.

But knowing Politicians and Govt' in general.. there's no way they would be forward thinking enough to do something innovative on the investment side.. rather they will dig their heels in and posture for the press and demand unreasonable terms from any private investor/company looking to pick the property up and continue to develop.

So in the end.. the whole thing probably goes to complete and utter waste.

Its a shame because there is probably enough there that if the IP and Assets were turned over to a seasoned shop... even with just a few key individuals this MMO could still probably launch.. as a F2P it might generate something.. and really ANYTHING positive back would go some ways to paying back the investors and RI.

But knowing Politicians and Govt' in general.. there's no way they would be forward thinking enough to do something innovative on the investment side.. rather they will dig their heels in and posture for the press and demand unreasonable terms from any private investor/company looking to pick the property up and continue to develop.

So in the end.. the whole thing probably goes to complete and utter waste.

Which is pretty heart breaking if only because of the potential verified in the few landscape screen shots. They aren't the most beautiful I have ever seen but they are nice and do have a "fully realized world" vibe to them.

TheGameguru wrote:

But knowing Politicians and Govt' in general.. there's no way they would be forward thinking enough to do something innovative on the investment side.. rather they will dig their heels in and posture for the press and demand unreasonable terms from any private investor/company looking to pick the property up and continue to develop.

Attempting to be "innovative" when they have zero understanding of creative IP or the video game industry is what exactly got Rhode Island into this mess. They don't have the knowledge or expertise particular to any of this stuff. At this point, good luck justifying spending money on some outside consultant or otherwise who might steer 'em in the right direction.

They've already haphazardly made the case for why government shouldn't give loans to businesses. Now you're suggesting they sell it off responsibly to someone who isn't going to rip them off? That's not unlikely because of "the government!", it's unlikely because of the circumstances surrounding this whole boondoggle.

fangblackbone wrote:

Which is pretty heart breaking if only because of the potential verified in the few landscape screen shots. They aren't the most beautiful I have ever seen but they are nice and do have a "fully realized world" vibe to them.

A couple shots were released of characters, too, which I think look amazing. They can be seen in this Forbes gallery.

Interesting article up at QT3. It's a collection of online claims by anonymous posters claiming to have worked there so everything should certainly be taken with a cautious eye. But it sure paints a believable picture.

Again raises the point that who exactly in Providence was running the show in terms of development and was making the actual developers produce content.. One starts to imagine a nightmare scenario of development by committee as well as 4 hour marathon fooseball games

The QT3 article reminded me of the Big Huge Games IP. Who owns that now? Was that part of what 38 Studios acquired, or did THQ hang on to that? I have to imagine that the Rise of Nations IP is worth something.

I can't say I've checked, but I imagine Microsoft owns RoN/RoL.

Gremlin wrote:

The QT3 article reminded me of the Big Huge Games IP. Who owns that now? Was that part of what 38 Studios acquired, or did THQ hang on to that? I have to imagine that the Rise of Nations IP is worth something.

Pretty sure the State of Rhode Island has it. I imagine Epic will pick it up for cheap in a year or two and hand it back to Epic Baltimore.

Rhode Island's Citizen Bank is suing Schilling for $2.4 million.

Apparently Schilling personally guaranteed a $2M line of credit, as well as a $350,000 corporate credit card, but he and 38 Studios have refused to repay any of it (though the article simple says "refused," I'm betting it's more like they can't afford to; especially when considering Schilling personally dumped $50M into 38 Studios himself).

(though the article simple says "refused," I'm betting it's more like they can't afford to; especially when considering Schilling personally dumped $50M into 38 Studios himself).

It seems the 38 studios's finances were so nested with loans and promises that I don't think anyone aside from the courts will know whether that is true.

Heard this bit on American Public Media's Marketplace program:

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/li...

How come no one has asked why he needed 38 studios? Why couldn't he just use one? Seems like a waste of money.

Something about circles:

I'm getting a "I don't want to go on the cart" vibe from this, and not just from the well of souls. Could they have worked something out, transferred it to another studio, and kept it quiet?