2012/13 Soccer Thread

kexx wrote:

That has got to be the worst match of the entire Euro, my god...I knew both ENG and ITA weren't up to their best, but that was just a sad display.

I think everything's shaping up to be SPA-GER for the final. POR might surprise, doubtful, but I think that's a more likely surprise than ITA upsetting GER. They just simply have no game whatsoever, and GER is doing great.

Anyone know why on earth they decided to bench DiNatale and keep Bolatelli the entire match? The man is awful, I don't get it...

Did you actually watch the game ? Balotelli and Pirlo were by far the best players on the pitch, certainly in the first half, and Balotelli would have scored the winner in extra team had Nocerino not headed in, because unlike Nocerino, Balotelli was onside.

Italy 'have no game whatsoever'. What does that actually mean ? They've already drawn with Spain, have demonstrated significant tactical flexibility in changing systems to suit their opposition, and were missing two of their best players in tonight's game (Chiellini and Motta). I think you'll find they'll play Germany closer than you think. I also think that Portugal will beat Spain, because they won't just sit back and let themselves be passed to death like France did.

And if you think that was the worst game of the tournament, then perhaps see if you can get hold of any game involving Greece or Ireland, or perhaps Poland's game against the Czech Republic.

There's a lot of gnashing of teeth in some sectors over Ingerland going out, which I do and don't understand. This is England's level right now. They are a quarter-finals team. They simply are not as good as any of the four semi-finalists.

Guess I was wrong, it was a decent game after all.

Prederick wrote:

There's a lot of gnashing of teeth in some sectors over Ingerland going out, which I do and don't understand. This is England's level right now. They are a quarter-finals team. They simply are not as good as any of the four semi-finalists.

This.

Prederick wrote:

There's a lot of gnashing of teeth in some sectors over Ingerland going out, which I do and don't understand. This is England's level right now. They are a quarter-finals team. They simply are not as good as any of the four semi-finalists.

quater finals is even a tad generous. Different group and they would of been out in the group stage IMO.

Pikey26 wrote:

Young and Parker are just goddddd awwffulll.

Abate was running roughshod over Young, but Parker godawful? Nonsense. Sure, he had a couple of naff passes towards the end, but given the insane amount of running he does, that's understandable. He's been a f*cking fantastic defensive midfielder the entire tournament.

jowner wrote:
Prederick wrote:

There's a lot of gnashing of teeth in some sectors over Ingerland going out, which I do and don't understand. This is England's level right now. They are a quarter-finals team. They simply are not as good as any of the four semi-finalists.

quater finals is even a tad generous. Different group and they would of been out in the group stage IMO.

Nah, quarter finals is about fair. Only group I see England being definitely over their heads in in this tournament is group B.

Alien Love Gardener wrote:

Nah, quarter finals is about fair. Only group I see England being definitely over their heads in in this tournament is group B.

I'm pretty sure you've forgot Spain's group there.

UCRC wrote:
Alien Love Gardener wrote:

Nah, quarter finals is about fair. Only group I see England being definitely over their heads in in this tournament is group B.

I'm pretty sure you've forgot Spain's group there.

Yup. This was a bad team and I doubt you would find many English that would disagree. Put just one slightly better team in their group (Denmark or Croatia) and change the order of the games they played in (eg playing France in the last fixture with both needing a result) and I could of seen them out.

To sum it up after they put Henderson on as a sub they had 4? Liverpool players on the field? yikes.

Denmark wouldn't have made any difference, they were another Sweden. Croatia maybe, but had the cutting edge of a blancmange.

In summary - I didn't think Roy did too bad with only a few weeks preparation and a number of key players missing. Some players improved their reps (Lescott, Welbeck, Johnson last night), others did not (Milner - though he was out of position, Young, Rooney). Apart from a mad 20 minutes against Sweden, the England defence could be stacked up against any defence in the tournament and not be overawed. Some things were lacking though..

(a) An outlet for possession - for a big carthorse, Carroll is knocked off the ball surprisingly easily, so you end up hoofing the ball away and having it come back 10 seconds later.

(b) Midfield creativity - both Gerrard and the wildly overrated Parker (put him next to De Rossi and talk about DM's) struggled to create anything, and even if Young and Milner had got into wide possessions, there was no one to aim for. Parker is just a headless chicken, the latest in a long line of athletic midfielders who haven't got a clue what to do with the ball once they have it (see also, Ince P, Thomas G, Palmer C, et al).

(c) A striker who can, you know, strike. Rooney looked badly out of sorts - his magnificent 2 foot tap in against Ukraine was his first goal in an international tournament since 2004.

I think Walcott deserves some recognition for his substitute contributions /Arsenalbias

Certainly against Sweden, but too often he just seemed to run into blind alleys (aka 'Shaun-Wright Philips syndrome'). Of course, he wasn't exactly helped by the fact that all too often there was no outlet ball, nor anyone in the centre to cross to.

jowner wrote:
UCRC wrote:
Alien Love Gardener wrote:

Nah, quarter finals is about fair. Only group I see England being definitely over their heads in in this tournament is group B.

I'm pretty sure you've forgot Spain's group there.

Yup. This was a bad team and I doubt you would find many English that would disagree. Put just one slightly better team in their group (Denmark or Croatia) and change the order of the games they played in (eg playing France in the last fixture with both needing a result) and I could of seen them out.

To sum it up after they put Henderson on as a sub they had 4? Liverpool players on the field? yikes.

The squad might have had 'wonderful team spirit and solidarity' in the camp, but I saw virtually zero chemistry and solidarity in their football.

I couldn't give two sh*ts who was high fiving who and who was hugging who AFTER they somehow managed to stumble a ball in the other goal. So many passing plays would simply just fall apart. The number of incomplete passes made me begin to wonder if I was watching England or Dundee United playing against an even sh*ttier team. The midfield seemed to be working in three seperate lanes, each lane in a world of its own. And any time the ball tried to swap lanes it would either be lost to the other team or go on a smoke break for a few minutes. And in today's football, if you have a midfield that is THAT imprecise and in-cohesive with each other, you really shouldn't expect anything.

Hodge Pudge, with the 'personality compatibility' approach, managed to pull out a last minute roster that wouldn't implode from catastrophic infighting like the usual England (or for this year's example see the Dutch). I was pretty impressed he achived what he had so far. But to be honest, I can't see him doing all that much better, nor the team in any immediate future for that matter (barring a Germany-esque revolution/rebuild with the youth).

Alien Love Gardener wrote:
Pikey26 wrote:

Young and Parker are just goddddd awwffulll.

Abate was running roughshod over Young, but Parker godawful? Nonsense. Sure, he had a couple of naff passes towards the end, but given the insane amount of running he does, that's understandable. He's been a f*cking fantastic defensive midfielder the entire tournament.

I am a United guy. I know 'insane amount of running' when I see one (that's all we seem to get for midfielders for the last few years). I also have been exposed to 'workers' long enough to know when it's fruitful amount of work and when it's just chasing around the ball like a retriever set loose on a pitch.

Parker ran all over the entire tournament, and worked his ass off. Does not mean whatsoever that he was fantastic in any capacity. He made some neat tackles here and there, when you run around as much you're bound to intercept some. Does not mean however that he did anything worth a damn with the said interceptions/tackles.

davet010 wrote:

(c) A striker who can, you know, strike. Rooney looked badly out of sorts - his magnificent 2 foot tap in against Ukraine was his first goal in an international tournament since 2004.

With a midfield that in-cohesive and subpar, I think even Messi/Ronaldo would have looked out of sorts (and rooney, while still world-class is at least a couple notches below those guys).

Too many Liverpool players, that's what it was. To be honest, England should go back to route one - they've not got the players for much else, and the central defences of most teams have looked vulnerable (apart from Port, Italy and Germany...ooops, I'm starting to see the fault in my own theory..)

Can we take a break from the Eurocup to discuss the transfer window. Arsenal needs to keep RVP and that means surrounding him with a better supporting cast. I see this as giving him more offensive support and keeping the ball out of their own net.

Signing Podolski OR Giroud makes sense for offensive support. Signing both when we already have Walcott, Gervinho, Chamberlain, Rosicky, etc will increase competition but I think I'd rather see one of those teen million pound deals go towards some defense.

Thoughts? Any Brits who are closer to the scene hearing rumors about defensive signings?

Think a lot of teams (and players) are waiting til Euro 2012 ends before getting their transfer business going. The enormous increase in scouting and TV coverage of other national leagues (over any given week, I can watch live matches from the Premiership, SPL, French Ligue 1, German Bundesliga, Spanish La Liga, Italian Serie A, Dutch Eredivisie and the Russian league) should also mean that there will be fewer 'unknowns' making a name for themselves than at previous tournaments.

Not heard of any defensive signings mooted for Arsenal, but then I think Arsenal have signed 4 CB's in the last 3 years, so I'm not sure that they have much room for manoeuvre. Signing those two was a bit of a surprise, but I wonder if Wenger is planning for the potential for RvP to leave. I'm also unsure that he'll be spending much more money unless someone moves out.

In more amusing news, the resurrected Glasgow Rangers 'newco' has been getting some serious bodyblows.

(a) They needed 8 of the other 11 SPL teams to vote for them to remain in the SPL because they are a new company rather than one which has been in administration and come out again. Number of votes revealed already - 5. Number of votes for Rangers - 0. I think they were hoping that the fact that they will always sell out their allocation would go for them...obviously not.

(b) A lot of the players who were under contract appear to consider that while they automatically have to be offered a contract in the new company under legislation, they do not have to accept it. Many of them think that Rangers straightened circumstances and the likelihood of starting in Scottish League Division One or lower is an unattractive proposition. The new Chairman is making noises about suing either the players, or suing any club they join for inducement, but I think he's on very thin ice. Still, it'll get a whole lot of deadbeats off the wage bill, and you don't exactly have to be Barcelona to get promoted into the SPL.

Pretty sure Arsenal are stuck in a limbo of they need to shed a ton of fringe bench players while bringing in some higher quality bodies. Not so much that they cant afford to pay these guys but they need to get the squad to a reasonable 25 as the rules dictate.

Bunch of guys came back from loans also which doesn't exactly help the numbers problem. Guys still on the books that could be sold/loaned away without missing a beat: Fabianski, Squillaci, Diaby, Densilson, Park, Vela, Chamakh, Bendtner.

Djourou could probably go also but it seems doubtful. Hopefuly the majority of those players are shown the door and we still get 1-2 bodies in. Don't hold your breath on the back 4 and goalie positions tho. Our only prayer to shore up the defense seems to be in midfield where honestly Song is already doing well.

But yea what dave said, not much business until the Euro is officially done.

I think Wenger might look for another right back. Unless Sagna makes quick recovery. Jenkinson has been injury-prone so far and none of our central defenders can step in if they're both injured.
As I've mentioned long ago, I'm dreaming of M'Vila. It could still happen, but looks like we had one approach already and something didn't quite work out.

Interest in M'Vila seems to have declined in the last week or two, reportedly due to his ineffective displays and his fondness for running his mouth off.

Spain v Portugal tonight. I think Portugal are perhaps a better all around team, and can see how they could win, but I can't bring myself to wish Ronaldo well. Unfortunately I think Portugal's chances are largely linked to his performance, so I'm somewhat stuck.

I'll settle for David Silva not getting injured and the chips can fall where they will after that.

Portugal a better all around team? Nope. People all making too much of Spanish frailties and their style of play simply because we've grown (too) used to it and praising Portuguese "team" because Ronaldo is doing everything for them.
Not saying they don't stand a chance, though.

Yeah, I was happy to notice France play boring football as soon as I realised that made the interest in MVila cool off And man were they annoying to watch. Tactically speaking they were my least favourite team on Euro (England close in pursuit) - I'm excusing smaller teams for dullness, because with weak players you are not expected to build anything special.
And btw, I'm not that crazy about MVila the man. Anyone in the mold would do - for tactical reasons Arsenal need more responsible player in the middle.

I still think Portugal are a better team. Much as I deride Pepe, Sergio Ramos is just as prone to mental errors, and I think Piqué is one of the most overrated players in Europe...he was so distrusted by Pep that the latter preferred to use Mascherano at CB in the big games.

Spain have spent the last two games coasting against teams who either couldn't break them down (Croatia) or couldn't be arsed to try (France). The problem there is that this approach may not be enough against Portugal, and sometimes accelerating back up to top speed is not as easy as it seems.

UCRC wrote:

Portugal a better all around team? Nope. People all making too much of Spanish frailties and their style of play simply because we've grown (too) used to it and praising Portuguese "team" because Ronaldo is doing everything for them.
Not saying they don't stand a chance, though.

Yeah, I was happy to notice France play boring football as soon as I realised that made the interest in MVila cool off And man were they annoying to watch. Tactically speaking they were my least favourite team on Euro (England close in pursuit) - I'm excusing smaller teams for dullness, because with weak players you are not expected to build anything special.
And btw, I'm not that crazy about MVila the man. Anyone in the mold would do - for tactical reasons Arsenal need more responsible player in the middle.

Wilshere should hopefully be back and in action. That will be a huge addition.

Jammy bastards. If Ronaldo had played in that game like he does for RM, they would be off to the final. Thought Bento made a mistake sending Bruno Alves up for that penalty once Nani had sent him back - he didn't look like he fancied it at all. I'd have gone with Ronaldo 4th then used the 6th player last.

Didn't think Spain got going at all until ET when Portugal were knackered. The Germans and Italians can run all day, fancy Germany now.

bleh. not bad considering we played with 10 as Portugal hasn't been able to produce (nationalize) a striker since Eusebio. Not to mention Ronaldo was meh and Nani was bleh.

Not that it had a real effect on the game but props to the ref for absolutely making me confused on what a foul for a ball in the air is. Bruno got called for atleast 3 fouls in the air where his apparent fault was keeping his eyes on the ball and trying to play it while getting his legs taken out by a Spanish midget who refused to jump at all.

UCRC wrote:

Portugal a better all around team? Nope. People all making too much of Spanish frailties and their style of play simply because we've grown (too) used to it and praising Portuguese "team" because Ronaldo is doing everything for them.
Not saying they don't stand a chance, though.

Ronaldo isn't doing much at all but converting his chances at a horrible rate.

yes a better team. Spain is an amazing collection of talent but if they plan to play this false nine bullsh*t and tiki taka vs the Germans (who will win vs Italy) they are in for serious trouble.

My biggest gripe with Portugals tactics today was not taking as many corners on offense and giving up as many on defense. Theres a reason Spain would take their corners short and were always looking to break into the box instead of cross the ball. Portugal in the offensive end should of been ecstatic to take the ball wide and win corners.

That was an interesting match.

I had missed all of the quarterfinals save the England-Italy one and couldn't catch up until a couple days ago because the Canadian broadcaster's video content seemed to get hammered by the NHL draft on the weekend. I watched Spain-France last night and thought France did well for 10 minutes before Spain took over.

Portugal were terrific though Spain managed to find another gear in extra time. Spain struggled all match to play the ball from the back through to their more attacking midfielders to get on the attack. I agree with jowner that Portugal should have done more to attack down the flanks even if the result was just winning corners... with Almeda in the middle they did have the height.

I do disagree on Alves though. At least three times he was called for a foul when he lept up with a Spanish player and contacted them in the head with his arms. Had I been watching live I would have made a Matt Cooke joke but alas it wasn't to be.

That's the most uncomfortable I've seen a Spanish/Barcelona side in a while (though I stopped watching La Liga games last season because of the monotony of it all). The first time I noticed the possession statistic pop up Spain "only" had 57% possession. Great performance by the Portuguese, shame they couldn't find a goal.

Lastly, I thought the crowd were awful; it seemed like they wanted to watch a League Two match with the outcry whenever either team tried to settle things down and keep the ball.

Sorry jowner, I put the hex on them when I became a late conversion to the Portuguese team. I still think I was right though.

A few observations.

1. Agree with jowner's point about fouls being called for challenges in the air - also seems to be prevalent at corners as well. BBC commentary team were referring to it in earlier games - well, Martin Keown and Alan Shearer were.

2. The point about attacking down the flanks is a fair one, since that's where Portugal's talent lies - in tests, 9 out of 10 Portuguese agreed that I am better than Almeida. Problem with that was that Arbeloa was efficient, but Jordi Alba was immense. I can see why Barcelona are about to splash the cash on him.

3. The crowd. I'm not certain, but I would reckon that, ooh, 15-20% of the people in that stadium were Spanish or Portuguese. The rest were more interested in some excitement rather than a strategic tussle. There again, I'd probably prefer to go to watch a League Two game than that.

Well, here's hoping today's a blast. I am completely okay with acknowledging and celebrating Spain's achievement, and I understand the way that they've played (the other team can't win if they don't have the ball), but damned if i'm not rooting for Ze Germans right now.

A better team? The only stat where they've beaten Spain yesterday was interceptions and attempted clearances. And fouls committed. Couldn't muster a shot on target, ended up with 35% of possession like everyone and were useless at set pieces. They defended admirably, but it hardly makes them a better team, does it?
I can see Spain improving for the final - this game probably gave them a lot of ideas about what does and what doesn't work, tactically.

Stats in soccer ? A total irrelevance apart from one stat - goals scored. In the 90th minute at the Etihad, City had taken 43 attempts on goal to QPR's three, and possession was 83% to 17%, but City were still losing. For all Spain's statistical 'dominance', it still went to the equivalent of a coin toss.