Windows 8

It depends how you look at it, on one hand it is being first into a new market, on the other (the slant from the RPS article) it's making a PC exclusive to a new OS at the moment that OS has it's lowest market penetration.

Scratched wrote:

It depends how you look at it, on one hand it is being first into a new market, on the other (the slant from the RPS article) it's making a PC exclusive to a new OS at the moment that OS has it's lowest market penetration.

Understood, but I don't see how this is MS's doing as is being implied.

The devs seem to be betting on an early mover/low competition on the platform advantage to get a bigger piece of a smaller pie, vs a smaller piece of a bigger pie of broader OS support. Plus, going Win RT for development gives them the touch screen stuff that probably doesn't exist in any comparable way in Win 32 development.

Risky? Yes.

Another thing I wonder about is Win Phone 8. Maybe going Win RT for development makes using a shared code base between Win Phone 8 and Win 8 much easier. We just don't know exactly what's coming with Win Phone 8, other than a lot of hints that the kernel is going to be basically the same kernel as Win 8 Arm, or Windows RT as I believe it's confusingly going to be called.

MannishBoy wrote:

I don't think this was an MS led thing, I think it was a play to be an earlier mover in the Win tablet space. It's an educated gamble.

Could be both. They entered into an MS exclusive publishing for XBLA deal last year.

EDIT: My guess is that they're planning on leveraging some sort of (asynchronous?) cross-play between devices: PC/XBLA/Tablet.

shoptroll wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

I don't think this was an MS led thing, I think it was a play to be an earlier mover in the Win tablet space. It's an educated gamble.

Could be both. They entered into an MS exclusive publishing for XBLA deal last year.

EDIT: My guess is that they're planning on leveraging some sort of (asynchronous?) cross-play between devices: PC/XBLA/Tablet.

True, they could have negotiated additional support money or something, but in that piece they said it was their option as to what they targeted for development.

IMO, MS would be stupid not to spend some money helping devs get apps on their platform. Just like with Win Phone, they should offer whatever assistance they can to devs who work to put stuff out there.

EDIT: Looked at the piece again. They say that it is partially a code base situation where they developed in C# and XNA, and would have to port to C++ to go GFWL. I suspect you're right about their being some cross platform functionality that requires the PC version to use Xbox gamertags, so either GFWL or the Windows Store.

I think this Anandtech piece is what MS was envisioning with Windows 8. There's a lot of tablet potential here as things move forward in lowering power requirements in x86 chips and the increase in graphics capabilities. Mark Rein was tweating about how excited they are for this for game development, especially as Haswell launches next year with even better graphics. Here's a string of tweats:

@Mark Rein[/url]]As usual Anand gets the big picture when it comes to Windows tablets. http://bit.ly/MzdBYs - just imagine the W700 when Haswell shows up...

Haswell will make this as thin as an iPad but as powerful as a MacBook Air with desktop-quality integrated graphics...
and the power to easily play real PC games with DX11 (not limited OpenGL ES you see on Android and iOS). So don't count out Microsoft yet!
Oh yeah… and MILLIONS of apps because this is a Windows machine in tablet form. BTW Metro works really nicely on tablets.
It is an exciting time to be in the game business! The next generation (consoles, phones, tablets, PCs) are going to be incredible!

Time will tell how this works out, but while the desktop may or may not be successful, there are some interesting possibilities with mobile and convertible devices as hardware ramps up over the life of Windows 8.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/m...

Looks awesome! I'm way excited about all the Microsoft tablet announcements tonight...but I guess in an iOS dominated world it's still going to have a tough time competing.

I'm preordering for sure though

With the iPad as refined as it is, the Surface has some proving to do. Being an early adopter has taught me too many bad lessons.

I would be much more interested in these products if Microsoft weren't butchering my desktop OS to try to sell them.

Malor wrote:

I would be much more interested in these products if Microsoft weren't butchering my desktop OS to try to sell them.

Agreed.

TheGameguru wrote:

Looks awesome! I'm way excited about all the Microsoft tablet announcements tonight...

Err, why?

Kurrelgyre wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

Looks awesome! I'm way excited about all the Microsoft tablet announcements tonight...

Err, why?

Why not?

Looks interesting. A lot of it's viability will depend on price, though. Not sure how well this will compete with ipads, but the pro is definitely going to make it hard for competitors in the smaller form factor ultrabook space.

I wonder if the 3 month delay on the "Pro" x86 version is partner Win 8 launch protection to appease them, or if it's hardware related. If it's hardware related, wouldn't it be cool if it was Haswell related? That kind of graphics in this form factor would be quite the product. You could theoretically do some mid-ranged gaming.

It's not like Intel hasn't worked with a big partner before to pre-release semi-custom silicone for one device. See the first Macbook Air.

Doubt that would happen, but it would be cool if it did.

Malor wrote:

I would be much more interested in these products if Microsoft weren't butchering my desktop OS to try to sell them.

I would sympathize more if Windows 7 wasn't perfectly functional. If you aren't interested in Metro apps then there won't be any reason to upgrade so you shouldn't worry about what Microsoft chooses to do with Windows 8.

And if you are suddenly excited about Metro apps then it would appear that Microsoft made the right choice.

Even if the experiment doesnt work. I applaud Microsoft for attempting to do something that could be interesting. The promise of a unified tablet/desktop OS with hardware that can seamlessly go from one form factor to another is interesting. Companies sometimes have to try and fail to ultimately succeed in the end...and sure this might be a huge failure but I respect the attempt.

Sure it's looking like a long shot and that Windows 8 will be a horrible mess of a desktop OS but you never know...maybe it will work out.

TheGameguru wrote:
Malor wrote:

I would be much more interested in these products if Microsoft weren't butchering my desktop OS to try to sell them.

I would sympathize more if Windows 7 wasn't perfectly functional. If you aren't interested in Metro apps then there won't be any reason to upgrade so you shouldn't worry about what Microsoft chooses to do with Windows 8.

Simply untrue.

  • Internet Explorer 10 will be included as a Metro-style app, which will not support plugins or ActiveX components, but includes a version of Adobe Flash Player which is optimized for touch and low power usage and works only on sites included on a whitelist.
  • The desktop version includes the full version of Flash Player, as well as support for plugins.[44][45]
  • Ability to sign in using a Microsoft account. This will allow for the user's profile and settings to be synchronized over the Internet and accessible from other computers running Windows 8, as well as integration with SkyDrive.[46]
  • Windows Marketplace featuring various Metro apps available for download. The ARM versions of the OS will download all software from the marketplace.
  • Two new authentication methods: picture password, which allows users to log in by drawing three gestures in different places on a picture,[47][48] and PIN log in, which allows users to authenticate using a four digit pin.[49]
  • Windows Explorer will include a ribbon toolbar, and have its file operation progress dialog updated to provide more detailed statistics, the ability to pause file transfers, and improvements in the ability to manage conflicts when copying files.[50]
  • Hybrid Boot will use "advanced hibernation functionality" on shutdown to allow faster startup times.[51][52][53]
  • Windows To Go will allow Windows 8 to boot and run from a bootable USB device (such as a flash drive).[54][55]
  • Two new recovery functions are included, Refresh and Reset. Refresh restores all Windows files to their original state while keeping settings, files, and Metro-style apps, while reset takes the computer back to factory default condition.[56]
  • Native USB 3.0 support[57]
  • A new lock screen[58]
  • New Windows Task Manager design[59]
  • Xbox Live integration (including Xbox Live Arcade, Xbox Companion and Xbox Music)[60][61][62]
  • Storage Spaces will allow users to combine different sized hard disks into virtual drives and specify mirroring, parity, or no redundancy on a folder-by-folder basis.[63]
  • Family Safety will allow parents to protect their children on the Internet, as well as monitor and control their PC and Internet activities and usage. [64][65][66]
  • Windows Defender now has anti-virus capabilities, similar to those of Microsoft Security Essentials. It is intended to replace the
  • Security Essentials package and function as the default anti-virus program.[67]

Bolded the ones I really want. [source]

I'm excited about the Surface, but I'm a Win Phone 7 fan. I know they have a good mobile OS already. Interested in prices and some more details.

None of those features reduce the functionality of Windows 7 though...

But that's not what we are talking about.

You said

GameGuru wrote:

If you aren't interested in Metro apps then there won't be any reason to upgrade.

I showed there are non-Metro apps/features to care about.

edit: The whole situation is silly. Just don't force metro on desktop users.

Honestly, the Surface tablet (Surface Tablet?) has me a *lot* more interested in Win8. Given what I currently use my laptop for, if this new tablet lets me switch to desktop/Win7 mode, it would be a very strong contender to replace my laptop as long as the keyboard is usable. Hell, even if it's not so great, I'd just be able to get a Bluetooth or USB model...

Here's to hoping Microsoft hasn't screwed this up... and that their hardware partners and mfgrs take the hint and get their heads out of their asses.

TheGameguru wrote:

None of those features reduce the functionality of Windows 7 though...

This is true.

so you shouldn't worry about what Microsoft chooses to do with Windows 8.

This is false.

Staying on Win7 isn't exactly an option forever.

Clinging to an old OS release is pretty much never a good long-term solution. Ask any Mac OS Classic fan.

I spat out some thoughts on this on my blog. Basically, I'm really excited to see what this thing can do since I only mildly care for the iPad (and definitely not for the iOS experience) and this could finally be a good tablet option for my employer given our needs. But they botched this announcement horribly and the lack of announced developer support is not confidence inspiring. I detailed it out in the post.

I'm hoping to finally have the time this week to dig into the latest Windows 8 preview on a test machine at work. I'm reserving my full judgement on it until I get some real hands-on time with it. I'm really hoping CP impresses me more. I still say Microsoft could fix this for me by simply allowing me to have the desktop come up by default. Don't even remove the Start Screen if you must, just don't make me stare at it except when I specifically ask.

That tablet looks pretty rad. I would be interested in picking one up as I love WP7. However, I'll definitely wait to see what Nokia comes up with as the Lumia 900 is awesome.

*Legion* wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

None of those features reduce the functionality of Windows 7 though...

This is true.

so you shouldn't worry about what Microsoft chooses to do with Windows 8.

This is false.

Staying on Win7 isn't exactly an option forever.

Clinging to an old OS release is pretty much never a good long-term solution. Ask any Mac OS Classic fan.

yeah but that's false fears.. Windows 7 isnt going away overnight (nor is developer support of any significance).. Windows 8 will have the opportunity to succeed or fail spectacularly before anything happens to Windows 7 (or Metro apps become standardized).

So its with full confidence I can say that anyone on Windows 7 can safely ignore Windows 8 and await the outcome of its launch (success or crash and burn). If it crashes and burns then I'm fairly confident we will have our Windows 7 like desktop back with a hasty launched Windows 9.. but if the general populous adapts to the Metro interface then its on us to adapt or migrate somewhere else..

edit.

You had a pair of repeats there, Guru.

Nothing you've said invalidates anything I've said. I'm much, much less interested in the tablet because they're trying to f*ck up my desktop, shutting me out of the newest thing by crippling the damn interface. If they'd just come out with it on a tablet, I might have bought one; I think Metro looks like a pretty good touch interface. But it's so completely unsuited to keyboard and mouse usage that I'm hoping very intensely that it bombs completely.

I wouldn't have the hate for it and anything it's touching, if they weren't trying to cram it down my throat sideways.

I understand..but at the same time it's difficult to slam a company for trying someone new and have it fail than just slightly innovate. We have had very little on the way of major change when it comes to how we interact with our mobile and desktop experience.. Cloud sync between devices only works while you have some active Internet connection and if you don't you needed to have planned ahead and made the files you want available ahead of time..

It's certainly promising to have a unified experience where I'm literally unplugging my device from my desk and heading to the airport.

Sure a laptop can perform this but if I can do it on a tablet with an intuitive touch interface and a compelling mouse driven interface then it's exciting to me. I don't mind relearning some things..besides it keeps the brain active

Wow

My Adidas

I'm interested in this and that kind of worries me. My wife and son have apple devices because they are non-technical and "just work". I have a gaming PC and an Android phone, both of which I love. If I add a Win8 Tablet, then I'll be buying apps for 3 different systems (not including my PC), of which there is no cross-over. Talk about fragmentation.

Nevin73 wrote:

I'm interested in this and that kind of worries me. My wife and son have apple devices because they are non-technical and "just work". I have a gaming PC and an Android phone, both of which I love. If I add a Win8 Tablet, then I'll be buying apps for 3 different systems (not including my PC), of which there is no cross-over. Talk about fragmentation.

Apps you buy for one of these Surface devices will work on your account on any Win 8 PC as well. And if you went with an Intel based Surface, you'd be able to run any Windows software you own that these would have power to run.

So this potentially would combine with your PC, depending on if and when you go to Windows 8 or it's successor.

It will be interesting to see how MS's phone strategy plays, too. If they go to the same kernel and store support and apps potentially carry over, they might actually make some headway by leveraging the Win 8 desktop stuff. Eventually.

Does anyone have a good link describing the differences between the two versions? Or could someone explain?

TheGameguru wrote:

So its with full confidence I can say that anyone on Windows 7 can safely ignore Windows 8 and await the outcome of its launch (success or crash and burn). If it crashes and burns then I'm fairly confident we will have our Windows 7 like desktop back with a hasty launched Windows 9.. but if the general populous adapts to the Metro interface then its on us to adapt or migrate somewhere else..

I agree with this but the problem is that in the meantime you're locked out of a number of incremental upgrades which Edwin described. Nitpicky I know, but that is a concern for some people.

I'm fairly certain I'm holding out for Windows 9 at this point. My build is only a couple of years old and I don't have any plans for major upgrades for at least another two years. Assuming a 3 year OS lifecycle, Windows 7 will be retired from mainstream support around the same time Windows 9 ships. That's plenty of time to see where Metro goes, and I'm assuming Windows 9 is going to be a refined version of Win8, as it looks like Windows is on a "tick-tock" cycle.