Nextbox rumors..

Chairman_Mao wrote:

4G built in

Hmmm, I can't see that happening. Mobile networks already have a bad reputation for how high they charge for data plus usage caps, and if they were to take a cut of sales, well that's a slice going to another party (while all the publishers are claiming poverty) while all the existing parties have setups for distributing content over the internet already. It's also another component in the console to push up prices, and not everyone will live in an area of good coverage.

All that does make me consider the whole discussion we're having here. I can't remember the last post that was thinking about the next generation as a "blank cheque" everything you ever wanted situation, but it's a very pragmatic and cautious discussion now.

Scratched wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

4G built in

Hmmm, I can't see that happening. Mobile networks already have a bad reputation for how high they charge for data plus usage caps, and if they were to take a cut of sales, well that's a slice going to another party (while all the publishers are claiming poverty) while all the existing parties have setups for distributing content over the internet already. It's also another component in the console to push up prices, and not everyone will live in an area of good coverage.

All that does make me consider the whole discussion we're having here. I can't remember the last post that was thinking about the next generation as a "blank cheque" everything you ever wanted situation, but it's a very pragmatic and cautious discussion now.

Perhaps the US would be a bad place to try it, but 4G coverage is more prevalent than land-based broadband isn't it? Amazon's model is such that the user pays nothing for using whispernet other than the price of the book, which I assume subsidizes the cost. Obviously the challenge is that games are much larger than books, but from what I've heard the providers really do have the bandwidth to handle it, they just don't want to make it easily available to the average user. If MS/Sony/Nintendo worked out a wholesale deal with Verizon or ATT, however, with a few dollars of each game going to the telecom, I think that would be the first step to truly innovating the online delivery of gaming. But I also think it might be more practical to start by offering this in countries with less developed broadband but better access to mobile 3G and 4G, like China or Brazil.

If they were going to do that, what I imagine they'd probably do is an official 4G dongle accessory.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Amazon's model is such that the user pays nothing for using whispernet other than the price of the book, which I assume subsidizes the cost.

Difference is that kindle books are lucky to hit 1MB. Games are much bigger.

And bandwidth is much more limited on mobile than I think you're believing, especially if you started pushing 30+GB games down. Most people's mobile accounts are limited to 5GB total in the US.

Next up: http://www.neowin.net/news/leak-xbox...

Editor's Note: To clarify, this appears to be two devices: a 7.0-inch tablet and a "stationary computing device". Check the document carefully so you don't confuse the tablet specifications with those of the stationary device. Could this be the next Xbox?
Scratched wrote:

Next up: http://www.neowin.net/news/leak-xbox...

Editor's Note: To clarify, this appears to be two devices: a 7.0-inch tablet and a "stationary computing device". Check the document carefully so you don't confuse the tablet specifications with those of the stationary device. Could this be the next Xbox?

2.5" 10,000 RPM 250GB SCSI disk?

22.2 Surround sound! Time to get some more speakers (don't tell the wife).

shoptroll wrote:
Stele wrote:

They only caved on the 3DS because of such sluggish sales.

And they're expecting a return to profitability on 3DS hardware sometime this Fall. Are the 360 and PS3 still selling at a loss?

The 360 hasn't been sold at a loss for years. I think the PS3 also is at least at break even point.

I think the PS3 was profitable when they started stripping PS2 BC out of it. There was one model that just had software compatibility that didn't work as well, right? I think that was the move they made to get the price down and start making money.

Stele wrote:

They only caved on the 3DS because of such sluggish sales.

And they're expecting a return to profitability on 3DS hardware sometime this Fall. Are the 360 and PS3 still selling at a loss?

EDIT:

Scratched wrote:

Next up: http://www.neowin.net/news/leak-xbox...

In theory those could be specs for a new console. It certainly hits the right trends: IBM CPU, AMD GPU. The GPU specs are in-line with the Radeon 7000 series from late last year / earlier this year. The clocks and DX11 support would suggest a 7600 or under derivative. Likely to keep costs / heat manageable.

I think they're likely to downplay this part of the announcement since it sounds like the focus is on the tablet.

The timing on this is curious given we had the previous leak not long ago regarding the next console. I'm wondering if both leaks were intentional to start drumming up interest.

MannishBoy wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Next up: http://www.neowin.net/news/leak-xbox...

Editor's Note: To clarify, this appears to be two devices: a 7.0-inch tablet and a "stationary computing device". Check the document carefully so you don't confuse the tablet specifications with those of the stationary device. Could this be the next Xbox?

2.5" 10,000 RPM 250GB SCSI disk?

I just searched for a 2.5" SCSI on newegg. Somehow I doubt this type of drive would make sense in a console cost wise.

MannishBoy wrote:

I just searched for a 2.5" SCSI on newegg. Somehow I doubt this type of drive would make sense in a console cost wise.

For that much money they'd be better off throwing an SSD into the mix instead. HDD drives are expected to have elevated costs for a bit longer due to the flooding last(?) year. Also, SCSI is more of an enterprise specification, I really don't think there's a need for it in a consumer product.

EDIT: I'm also going to call bunk on this being the new console. Two 6-core chips? Not for anything remotely near a standard console price of $300-400.

Specs might be legit, but it's very wishful thinking to even believe this is the new Xbox. Some other product like a server maybe, but it doesn't look like a consumer option to me.

shoptroll wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

I just searched for a 2.5" SCSI on newegg. Somehow I doubt this type of drive would make sense in a console cost wise.

For that much money they'd be better off throwing an SSD into the mix instead. HDD drives are expected to have elevated costs for a bit longer due to the flooding last(?) year. Also, SCSI is more of an enterprise specification, I really don't think there's a need for it in a consumer product.

That just jumped out at me as a totally off the wall solution, which makes me question the document's origin.

MannishBoy wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

I just searched for a 2.5" SCSI on newegg. Somehow I doubt this type of drive would make sense in a console cost wise.

For that much money they'd be better off throwing an SSD into the mix instead. HDD drives are expected to have elevated costs for a bit longer due to the flooding last(?) year. Also, SCSI is more of an enterprise specification, I really don't think there's a need for it in a consumer product.

That just jumped out at me as a totally off the wall solution, which makes me question the document's origin.

Yeah, especially when an SSD would get you better performance for less money.

Also who uses "Engine frequency" for GPU specs?

Also also, LRDIMM appears to be a server memory architecture. Woo buzzwords!

EDIT: According to this post on Slashdot, it sounds like there's only one manufacturer of LRDIMM modules, and there's some sort of IP wrangling going on as well. If anyone remembers the Pentium 4 / Rambus debacle, this seems like the sort of thing a company like Microsoft would be incredibly wary of.

Paul Thurrott (MS analyst guy) did a piece assuming that the 2010 document was legit (I didn't know MS issued a take down notice).

One good point about next gen that hasn't been discussed much here is multitasking. Right now, you've got one thing running at once with a few select network/communications functions running over the top (party chat, etc). Next gen stuff should be able to better handle other things going on at once, which will make apps and other tasks that PCs do well in multitasking much easier to handle.

Also, the standby stuff could be big, if you assume that MS gets around the failure to get the media deals with DVR functionality. (Assuming that today's mystery announcement isn't something related to content deals).

MannishBoy wrote:

One good point about next gen that hasn't been discussed much here is multitasking. Right now, you've got one thing running at once with a few select network/communications functions running over the top (party chat, etc). Next gen stuff should be able to better handle other things going on at once, which will make apps and other tasks that PCs do well in multitasking much easier to handle.

I'd expect it to be very similar to iOS's multitasking system. I really can't think of many situations where I want background tasks to interfere with something I'm playing.

That said, it's hard to tell if the roadmap thing is actually where they're heading. I didn't get a chance to read it when the news first broke, but the Thurrot overview makes it sound like something issued from marketing/management vs. engineering. As Tech Report points out, they don't even have a decision if the system is going to be ARM or x86 based. Although if they're looking at a set-top box system ARM would make more sense, while x86 would be for the traditional console experience. Keep in mind Win 8 runs on both architectures.

The Fortaleza stuff sounds interesting in a zeitgeisty way (Google and John Carmack are working on glasses based technologies currently), but as Sony's E3 conference this year showed, the push for 3D glasses seems to have finally died off. I really can't see consumers getting excited about goggles in large numbers after the flop of 3DTV and the Virtual Boy. But back in 2010, 3D was still being pushed fairly aggressively, so maybe this was how they planned on getting on board with it?

shoptroll wrote:

That said, it's hard to tell if the roadmap thing is actually where they're heading. I didn't get a chance to read it when the news first broke, but the Thurrot overview makes it sound like something issued from marketing/management vs. engineering. As Tech Report points out, they don't even have a decision if the system is going to be ARM or x86 based. Although if they're looking at a set-top box system ARM would make more sense, while x86 would be for the traditional console experience. Keep in mind Win 8 runs on both architectures.

I don't see the main Xbox being ARM. Maybe a secondary set top box companion device (media content only). But not the games box.

Or, AMD just announced that it will actually start including ARM on top of it's x86 CPUs for security functions, so maybe it's something related. I just doubt it since that was just announced.

shoptroll wrote:

The Fortaleza stuff sounds interesting in a zeitgeisty way (Google and John Carmack are working on glasses based technologies currently), but as Sony's E3 conference this year showed, the push for 3D glasses seems to have finally died off. I really can't see consumers getting excited about goggles in large numbers after the flop of 3DTV and the Virtual Boy. But back in 2010, 3D was still being pushed fairly aggressively, so maybe this was how they planned on getting on board with it?

I get the sense that a fair number of Silicon Valley types see augmented reality glasses as the next big tech revolution. In the same way that smartphones have dramatically changed the way people interact with the world, the idea is that AR glasses would do the same. I don't see it myself, but I expect we'll see a lot of prototyping in that area (and maybe even a few products) for awhile yet.

I hope these AR glasses are able to go over the top of actual glasses. Because wearing 3D glasses already sucks.

MannishBoy wrote:

I don't see the main Xbox being ARM. Maybe a secondary set top box companion device (media content only). But not the games box.

That's what I'm thinking as well. I think during E3 I went so far as to predict that we'll be seeing XBox products leased/sold through our cable companies next generation. MS has slowly unified a couple (Zune, GFWL, etc.) of their entertainment products into the "XBox" banner which coupled with their media partnerships should culminate is some sort of non-gaming XBox products like set-top boxes.

I know there's rumors for Siri-powered Apple TV products in the near future, but I wouldn't put it past MS to integrate the voice recognition parts of Kinect with an XBox branded set-top-box as a competing product.

Carmack isn't working on AR, but head mounted displays showing a game in your full field of vision.

Scratched wrote:

Carmack isn't working on AR, but head mounted displays showing a game in your full field of vision.

Right. I was confused as to what they were talking about.

I've always thought those headsets could be cool once the tech caught up. Just imagine using them for travel. On a plane you could just isolate yourself with your movie and ignore all the other annoying stuff going on.

Headsets are even worse. They'd better accommodate glasses. And small ears that can't carry tons of weight.

Yes, I am a single-issue wonk!

Glass, head mounted-displays. What's the difference? My point was mostly that while techies seem to like this sort of stuff (except 3D for some reason) I think it's a much harder sell to regular people.

MannishBoy wrote:

On a plane you could just isolate yourself with your movie and ignore all the other annoying stuff going on.

At least until the plane depressurizes and your sensory deprivation chamber prevents you from noticing the mask deploying

shoptroll wrote:

At least until the plane depressurizes and your sensory deprivation chamber prevents you from noticing the mask deploying :)

Have you never watched Fight Club? :p

MannishBoy wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

At least until the plane depressurizes and your sensory deprivation chamber prevents you from noticing the mask deploying :)

Have you never watched Fight Club? :p

Not in a long time.

shoptroll wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

At least until the plane depressurizes and your sensory deprivation chamber prevents you from noticing the mask deploying :)

Have you never watched Fight Club? :p

Not in a long time.

Calm as Hindu cows.

shoptroll wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

One good point about next gen that hasn't been discussed much here is multitasking. Right now, you've got one thing running at once with a few select network/communications functions running over the top (party chat, etc). Next gen stuff should be able to better handle other things going on at once, which will make apps and other tasks that PCs do well in multitasking much easier to handle.

I'd expect it to be very similar to iOS's multitasking system. I really can't think of many situations where I want background tasks to interfere with something I'm playing.

I want Android-style multitasking where my game slows down until I download an app to kill other apps. [/jab at Android]

Or Windows Phone-style multitasking, where there's nothing to do besides the most basic functions since nothing of interest is developed for it.*

[size=6]*I don't know what's on WPhone, as I don't own one.[/size]

I've not had much of a problem finding apps for my Windows Phone. The store has gone over 70K apps available. And did it faster than Droid that took 24 months to get to 80K.

But seriously, of every thousand apps, I suppose 5 or 6 are worth mentioning on any platform.

I did try Android to get a fitness app I wanted, only to find out that despite my version of Android being supported, my phone wasn't. And when I traded my Quantum to my daughter, her only regret was the lack of a tumblr app.

Otherwise, I've got all the apps I need, plus the phone is rather Apple-like in the number of functions it does well so you don't need an app.

And the games are fewer, but there are enough really good games, it doesn't matter. Plus I like that the games tie into XBL, giving me achievements. And in the case of Fable Pub Games, providing gold for my character in Fable II.

After wasting five bucks on Doggcatcher to run podcasts worse than WP7 does on its own, and trying a million crappy browsers, I bought another Quantum off Craigslist, because my daughter didn't want her Android back.

I'm hopeful that WP8 can finally draw customers, but I doubt it. It's a shame, because WP7 is becoming the Dreamcast of smartphone OS's. It's so good, yet so ignored.