Questions you want answered (P&C Edition)

I've known a few EMTs. It's a dangerous job, and takes someone who is a special kind of crazy to do it. I still don't think guns are the way to go. Tazers would be a good idea, though. (Surprised they're not issued them already, truth be told). Stories I've heard, it's not the ones you expect to be dangerous that are. You can call in the cops for that. It's the ones that seem fine, then suddenly _aren't_.

Case in point, one of my friends was responding to someone complaining of chest pain and shortness of breath. They get there, are getting ready to haul her to the ER for followup, and the daughter completely freaks out and ends up seriously injuring my friend. A tazer would have been handy there.

As a complete aside, I can't see many EMTs actually _using_ a gun, even if they had one. Tazer, I can see a lot more.

Edited to add a question of my own:

How does the idea of unified "Christianity" even work? (In the context of activism and religious-based laws, mind) Off the top of my head, you've got Protestants and Catholics, which tend to not agree on much. (To the point an outsider would probably split them into two separate religions, like Judaism and Christianity.), and even within the Protestant branch, you've got groups as disparate as Seventh Day Adventists and Evangelicals.

I have a hard time seeing as to how that group holds together at all, outside of pure "us vs. them"... which, really should apply within the group as well? It makes my head hurt trying to reconcile the inherent problem with the "They're not good Christians like us!" rhetoric... when half the group aren't. It'd be like the US as a whole working on rhetoric about the city-dwelling EU. It _should_ alienate half your base... but it doesn't.

Kannon wrote:

Edited to add a question of my own:

How does the idea of unified "Christianity" even work? (In the context of activism and religious-based laws, mind) Off the top of my head, you've got Protestants and Catholics, which tend to not agree on much. (To the point an outsider would probably split them into two separate religions, like Judaism and Christianity.), and even within the Protestant branch, you've got groups as disparate as Seventh Day Adventists and Evangelicals.

I have a hard time seeing as to how that group holds together at all, outside of pure "us vs. them"... which, really should apply within the group as well? It makes my head hurt trying to reconcile the inherent problem with the "They're not good Christians like us!" rhetoric... when half the group aren't. It'd be like the US as a whole working on rhetoric about the city-dwelling EU. It _should_ alienate half your base... but it doesn't.

There's still plenty of infighting (BTW, you left out Orthodox), against, for example, the recent "emergent church" movement, or caused by anything Mark Driscoll days. But the establishment of a "them" makes it easier to get someone to buy the "us." After all, "they" are much more different from "us" than you and I are different. And the relative uniformity of the Bible does a lot to establish common ground. The difference between the Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Bibles being a few pages (or even a couple words) here and there, plus differences of interpretation.

Yeah there's still a startling amount of mythological similarity between even the big three Judeo-christo-Islamic religions, given their identical originations.

Depending on how far down you drill, you can ask that question about any level; Islam may seem monolithic to some people, for example, but the shias, sunnis, sufis, and kharijites would disagree - and each of those broad branches of tons of smaller branches.

Same with Great, Little, and Diamond Vehicles for Buddhism. (sorry for the english translations, I know they're not perfect.) Buddhism has the strange honor that several large Buddhist sects could technically be described as atheist.

I'm sure Hinduism is similarly diverse, but it's an area I am large unfamiliar. My assumption is that it varies village to village, given its loose definitions of the sacred.

There's some quote about bonding with larger and larger groups against "the other" that I think works pretty well with religious sects. can't find it atm.

Seth wrote:

I can't find links currently, but I've read a few places that the race to ban bath salts will just be a ridiculous law-race that's always a couple steps behind. These synthetic chemical compounds are so easy to manipulate -- add a molecule here, change the structure there -- that they can skirt any law written for them.

How prescient! Yes, the beach resort town of Ocean City, MD passed laws banning K2. Voila — this summer we have K4.

To people who are fully on the organic band wagon is there anything in this world that they don't consider toxic? I work with a lady who I consider to be "ultra-organic". Over the last few weeks she's told me that sunscreen is toxic, sugar is toxic, preservatives in food cause cancer, vitamins are bad for me, literally the list goes on and on. At one point she even angrily declared that she should call DHR and report child abuse because I had taken my kid to McDonalds for a chicken nugget happy meal. And I don't really think she was joking.

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison. Has the organic movement always been like this? It's kinda' getting old to be honest. I'm all for eating healthy but please don't tut-tut everyone around you that's not eating the way you are.

Seth wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

The hell are bath salts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyle...

Holy. f*cking. Hell. The chemistry of that is nightmarish, no wonder people react like they do; that is some serious brain twisting.

I wish bath salts hadn't stuck as a name too; but now I understand why my "how to make bath salts" page is being pounded. Gonna go take that down now and think of a way to rename it. And put links to various explanations of what the psychozombie bathsalts actually are.

Kehama wrote:

To people who are fully on the organic band wagon is there anything in this world that they don't consider toxic? I work with a lady who I consider to be "ultra-organic". Over the last few weeks she's told me that sunscreen is toxic, sugar is toxic, preservatives in food cause cancer, vitamins are bad for me, literally the list goes on and on. At one point she even angrily declared that she should call DHR and report child abuse because I had taken my kid to McDonalds for a chicken nugget happy meal. And I don't really think she was joking.

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison. Has the organic movement always been like this? It's kinda' getting old to be honest. I'm all for eating healthy but please don't tut-tut everyone around you that's not eating the way you are.

There's are people like that on the organic bandwagon, but I wouldn't say the movement as a whole is like that. As with any group of people, there are zealots who make the rest look bad.

Kehama wrote:

To people who are fully on the organic band wagon is there anything in this world that they don't consider toxic? I work with a lady who I consider to be "ultra-organic". Over the last few weeks she's told me that sunscreen is toxic, sugar is toxic, preservatives in food cause cancer, vitamins are bad for me, literally the list goes on and on. At one point she even angrily declared that she should call DHR and report child abuse because I had taken my kid to McDonalds for a chicken nugget happy meal. And I don't really think she was joking.

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison. Has the organic movement always been like this? It's kinda' getting old to be honest. I'm all for eating healthy but please don't tut-tut everyone around you that's not eating the way you are.

Thanks to non libertarian America, the majority of non organic stuff is pretty healthy anyway. And thanks to libertarian America, it's still pretty easy to lie through your teeth about the definition of grass fed, free range, organic, etc, so unless she grows it herself, your neighbor might be ingesting stuff not that different than you are (except in price).

To your point, I think it's good to just assume everything's gonna kill you and make choices based on how much you want to mitigate death. I think most of these choices are irrational, but harmless. I don't see the harm in aspartame or xyletol, for example, but I do consider refined sugar to be an actual poison. A hopelessly delicious poison. The bottom line, though, is that it's very, very silly to expect other people to abide by the same little irrationalities that I do.

Seth wrote:

The bottom line, though, is that it's very, very silly to expect other people to abide by the same little irrationalities that I do.

How very...libertarian of you.

Minarchist wrote:
Seth wrote:

The bottom line, though, is that it's very, very silly to expect other people to abide by the same little irrationalities that I do.

How very...libertarian of you.

IMAGE(http://facepalm.freeblog.hu/files/pix/201008/luke_NOOOOOO.jpg)

Kehama wrote:

To people who are fully on the organic band wagon is there anything in this world that they don't consider toxic? I work with a lady who I consider to be "ultra-organic". Over the last few weeks she's told me that sunscreen is toxic, sugar is toxic, preservatives in food cause cancer, vitamins are bad for me, literally the list goes on and on. At one point she even angrily declared that she should call DHR and report child abuse because I had taken my kid to McDonalds for a chicken nugget happy meal. And I don't really think she was joking.

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison. Has the organic movement always been like this? It's kinda' getting old to be honest. I'm all for eating healthy but please don't tut-tut everyone around you that's not eating the way you are.

You should have encouraged her to call child protective services.

EDIT. And informed her you'd be calling idiot protective services.

Jonman wrote:
Kehama wrote:

To people who are fully on the organic band wagon is there anything in this world that they don't consider toxic? I work with a lady who I consider to be "ultra-organic". Over the last few weeks she's told me that sunscreen is toxic, sugar is toxic, preservatives in food cause cancer, vitamins are bad for me, literally the list goes on and on. At one point she even angrily declared that she should call DHR and report child abuse because I had taken my kid to McDonalds for a chicken nugget happy meal. And I don't really think she was joking.

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison. Has the organic movement always been like this? It's kinda' getting old to be honest. I'm all for eating healthy but please don't tut-tut everyone around you that's not eating the way you are.

You should have encouraged her to call child protective services.

EDIT. And informed her you'd be calling idiot protective services.

So she can get the protection she needs?

Jonman wrote:

You should have encouraged her to call child protective services.

Ya know, her threatening to do that really did make me wonder what kind of nutjob calls these poor DHR people must get. "You want me to take custody of a child for what again?"

Why is everything a war lately? Today's war? The war on coal:

Pennsylvania Republicans say EPA Declared War on Coal

Kehama wrote:

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison.

Sunlight causes cancer. How much more organic and raw can you get than sunlight?

SixteenBlue wrote:
Jonman wrote:

EDIT. And informed her you'd be calling idiot protective services.

So she can get the protection she needs?

Nah, so that she knows you think she's an idiot

Funkenpants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison.

Sunlight causes cancer. How much more organic and raw can you get than sunlight?

Radium is organic and natural. She should have a few radium sandwiches. Yum.

Jonman wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison.

Sunlight causes cancer. How much more organic and raw can you get than sunlight?

Radium is organic and natural. She should have a few radium sandwiches. Yum.

Strychnine and arsenic are also all-natural.

Tanglebones wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison.

Sunlight causes cancer. How much more organic and raw can you get than sunlight?

Radium is organic and natural. She should have a few radium sandwiches. Yum.

I dunno, I've seen claims of organic water, which confuses me... if water can be organic, so can radium!

Edit: With relation to "bath salts", what drives people to snort/smoke/drink/taste/inject every damn thing in the world? Bath salts seem to turn you into a psycho, but some people go right ahead anyway. I swear you could sell people cyanide pills if you told them it'd get them high right before they carked it.

Redwing wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison.

Sunlight causes cancer. How much more organic and raw can you get than sunlight?

Radium is organic and natural. She should have a few radium sandwiches. Yum.

I dunno, I've seen claims of organic water, which confuses me... if water can be organic, so can radium!

Edit: With relation to "bath salts", what drives people to snort/smoke/drink/taste/inject every damn thing in the world? Bath salts seem to turn you into a psycho, but some people go right ahead anyway. I swear you could sell people cyanide pills if you told them it'd get them high right before they carked it.

Because life is sh*t and sometimes you want to numb the pain or shut the goddamn voices in your head up for a couple of hours.

There's an excellent chance that bath salts do nothing of the sort. Remember, our source for all the hysteria are the same people that insist that marijuana is terribly, terribly dangerous. Anytime a new drug shows up, it's all Reefer Madness, all the time.

The government is just not a trustworthy source on drug information.

Maq wrote:
Redwing wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:
Kehama wrote:

I swear, she acts like ingesting anything that isn't purchased from a co-op that's free from all pesticides and eaten raw or steamed is the same as downing a glass of rat poison.

Sunlight causes cancer. How much more organic and raw can you get than sunlight?

Radium is organic and natural. She should have a few radium sandwiches. Yum.

I dunno, I've seen claims of organic water, which confuses me... if water can be organic, so can radium!

Edit: With relation to "bath salts", what drives people to snort/smoke/drink/taste/inject every damn thing in the world? Bath salts seem to turn you into a psycho, but some people go right ahead anyway. I swear you could sell people cyanide pills if you told them it'd get them high right before they carked it.

Because life is sh*t and sometimes you want to numb the pain or shut the goddamn voices in your head up for a couple of hours.

That I can understand, but it really seems some people do it for sh*ts and giggles.

Malor wrote:

There's an excellent chance that bath salts do nothing of the sort. Remember, our source for all the hysteria are the same people that insist that marijuana is terribly, terribly dangerous. Anytime a new drug shows up, it's all Reefer Madness, all the time.

The government is just not a trustworthy source on drug information.

That's also a fair point.

Malor wrote:

There's an excellent chance that bath salts do nothing of the sort. Remember, our source for all the hysteria are the same people that insist that marijuana is terribly, terribly dangerous. Anytime a new drug shows up, it's all Reefer Madness, all the time.

The government is just not a trustworthy source on drug information.

How about this source?: http://www.modernmythology.net/2012/...

From the quick googlage I did it looks like bath salts are apparently a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor. I'm extrapolating here but it sounds like it sounds like a reasonable analogy is that it's "One More Turn" in ingestible form.

Ever played an MMO for waaaaay too long to the detriment of your sleep/nutrition/job/relationship? Then you have the tools to understand why people take drugs like this even though they're bad for them.

MacBrave wrote:
Malor wrote:

There's an excellent chance that bath salts do nothing of the sort. Remember, our source for all the hysteria are the same people that insist that marijuana is terribly, terribly dangerous. Anytime a new drug shows up, it's all Reefer Madness, all the time.

The government is just not a trustworthy source on drug information.

How about this source?: http://www.modernmythology.net/2012/...

That is an article about how an unnamed chemist is claiming a well know pharmaceutical company is testing mind control "zombie" drugs on an unsuspecting public. Or more likely some Resident Evil fanfic.

Hypatian wrote:

Why is everything a war lately? Today's war? The war on coal:

Pennsylvania Republicans say EPA Declared War on Coal

Because America, in general, is a culture obsessed with the military and war? We also like hyperbole and making everything into a life or death situation of us vs. them. At this stage I think if I say "I hate lettuce." then that means I have officially declared war on lettuce.

Redwing wrote:

Edit: With relation to "bath salts", what drives people to snort/smoke/drink/taste/inject every damn thing in the world? Bath salts seem to turn you into a psycho, but some people go right ahead anyway. I swear you could sell people cyanide pills if you told them it'd get them high right before they carked it.

Wikipedia lists the desired effects as:

Wikipedia article on Methylenedioxypyrovalerone wrote:

Desired psychological effects

* euphoria
* increased alertness and awareness
* increased wakefulness and arousal
* increased energy and motivation
* mental stimulation/increased concentration
* increased sociability
* sexual stimulation/aphrodisiac effects
* mild empathogenic effects
* diminished perception of the requirement for food and sleep

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Erowid is lacking info on Methylenedioxypyrovalerone, so I'm lacking on something I'd normally use as a less-biased source on it's downsides.

Jonman wrote:

Wikipedia lists the desired effects as:

Wikipedia article on Methylenedioxypyrovalerone wrote:

Desired psychological effects

* euphoria
* increased alertness and awareness
* increased wakefulness and arousal
* increased energy and motivation
* mental stimulation/increased concentration
* increased sociability
* sexual stimulation/aphrodisiac effects
* mild empathogenic effects
* diminished perception of the requirement for food and sleep

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Sure, but what are the actual effects?