"A Game of Thrones" Spoiler-Ridden Catch-All of Doom - books and HBO show

It looks like she will end this season by getting her dragons back in the freak-house.

Ah, so she won't even meet Arstan Whitebeard?

In that case, Strong Belwas seems to be a notable omission from that casting list. Perhaps they are going to have Daario fill his role?

EDIT: Just realized I skimmed a post to this effect on the last page. Still, it is conceivable that they might try to build the Daario character a bit earlier since he does end up being a romantic interest for her.

So the ending last night did not make it clear if Winterfell was sacked by the Iron Men or by Bolton's bastard. We know what happens in the books...but they've changed stuff before.

Really dug the dragon scenes.

What is bugging me is that since they have gone to CGI wolves, they seem to get even less screen time.

Nevin73 wrote:

So the ending last night did not make it clear if Winterfell was sacked by the Iron Men or by Bolton's bastard. We know what happens in the books...but they've changed stuff before.

Earlier in the episode I thought Theon's fate was shaping up to be quite a departure from the book. I realized that the final shot of Winterfell burning actually opens up quite a bit of uncertainty about what ultimately happened to the Ironborn. I am guessing that was Ramsay's work.

Boudreaux wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:

So the ending last night did not make it clear if Winterfell was sacked by the Iron Men or by Bolton's bastard. We know what happens in the books...but they've changed stuff before.

Earlier in the episode I thought Theon's fate was shaping up to be quite a departure from the book. I realized that the final shot of Winterfell burning actually opens up quite a bit of uncertainty about what ultimately happened to the Ironborn. I am guessing that was Ramsay's work.

Me too. That looked like a lot of destruction for 20 guys.

I find it odd they would not introduce Ramsay yet, since he is of growing import later, but maybe they'll get back to his handiwork in Winterfell. After all, with the close perspective done in that scene focused on the boys, there wasn't much known about who or what sacked the castle.

How oh how will Sam get out of this mess? Maybe he walked on to the Walking Dead set by mistake.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

How oh how will Sam get out of this mess? Maybe he walked on to the Walking Dead set by mistake.

In that case he should keep an eye open for one of those infinite ammo shotguns. That would probably do the trick.

EriktheRed wrote:
Baron Of Hell wrote:

How oh how will Sam get out of this mess? Maybe he walked on to the Walking Dead set by mistake.

In that case he should keep an eye open for one of those infinite ammo shotguns. That would probably do the trick.

Dragon glass pellets.

Oh Shae. They've made you so sweet in the show. Makes me wonder how they'll get from "I'm yours and you're mine," to strangulation with the Chain of Coin.

Grenn wrote:

Oh Shae. They've made you so sweet in the show. Makes me wonder how they'll get from "I'm yours and you're mine," to strangulation with the Chain of Coin.

She was similar in the books if I remember. A little more willful and stuck up, but seemingly went from "I'm yours and you're mine" to "Tyrion killed Joffrey." in no time flat. And when he found her in the bed of his father, he, understandably, snapped.

I don't know about "stuck up," but "willful" definitely describes her in both the book and the show. In the book, though, I always read it as her being very young and not really taking the dangerous situation she found herself in seriously. Her "willfulness" struck me as the willfulness of a spoiled teenaged girl (which, to be fair, is exactly what she was).

In the light of what happened later, I also assumed that her affection for Tyrion was more or less an act. She IS a whore after all, and schooled in the fine art of telling men what they want to hear. Maybe it was a part she enjoyed playing, even one she wished was real, but not one she couldn't turn off when it became necessary.

In the show... that bit about trying to get him to run away to Pentos with her doesn't really fit with that reading. Seems like they may have painted themselves into a corner, unless they intend to drastically change what happens with her character during and after Tyrion's trial.

Boudreaux wrote:

Earlier in the episode I thought Theon's fate was shaping up to be quite a departure from the book. I realized that the final shot of Winterfell burning actually opens up quite a bit of uncertainty about what ultimately happened to the Ironborn. I am guessing that was Ramsay's work.

I'm a little frustrated at how they changed the Ironborn. I got from the books that Theon had earned at least some grudging respect by the end of his run in Winterfell - but it's clearly not the case in the way they were portrayed here. By having Ramsay's role as Theon's advisor absorbed by that Ironborn dude, they seem to have made Theon out to be even less competent as a leader.

My guess about what happens in the series is that the Ironborn open the gate to Ramsay in some kind of proposed surrender deal, Ramsay murders them all in exchange for their kindness, then proceeds to sack Winterfell as he originally did in the books. I'll be very interested to see how they introduce Ramsay in the next season, since the second book put a lot of effort into making him out to be a total dick and the viewers of the series will have none of that background.

It's interesting to me that Dany ends up killing Daxos. I actually liked how Qarth was handled in the show, but her arc was very different from the books and it will be interesting to see what they do with Qarth now that there is a power vacuum.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

How oh how will Sam get out of this mess? Maybe he walked on to the Walking Dead set by mistake.

That scene was very odd to me.

hbi2k wrote:

In the show... that bit about trying to get him to run away to Pentos with her doesn't really fit with that reading. Seems like they may have painted themselves into a corner, unless they intend to drastically change what happens with her character during and after Tyrion's trial.

I don't know - I read this as being completely out of her own self interest. She had a rough time of things in Kings Landing - she was nearly discovered several times, the city was nearly sacked around her, and now her patron is stripped of any power he might have had to protect her.

She has a sweet deal with Tyrion, but it's only getting more dangerous. It would be even sweeter if she could convince him to pack his bags and retire to somewhere a bit safer, and she was just trying to manipulate him along that path.

kaostheory wrote:
Grenn wrote:

Oh Shae. They've made you so sweet in the show. Makes me wonder how they'll get from "I'm yours and you're mine," to strangulation with the Chain of Coin.

She was similar in the books if I remember. A little more willful and stuck up, but seemingly went from "I'm yours and you're mine" to "Tyrion killed Joffrey." in no time flat. And when he found her in the bed of his father, he, understandably, snapped.

You'd better not be screwing with me. I just picked up the first book for a flight to an interview last week, and am already planning on buying the rest. If Joffrey dies, I'm buying the rest today.

Bonus_Eruptus wrote:
kaostheory wrote:
Grenn wrote:

Oh Shae. They've made you so sweet in the show. Makes me wonder how they'll get from "I'm yours and you're mine," to strangulation with the Chain of Coin.

She was similar in the books if I remember. A little more willful and stuck up, but seemingly went from "I'm yours and you're mine" to "Tyrion killed Joffrey." in no time flat. And when he found her in the bed of his father, he, understandably, snapped.

You'd better not be screwing with me. I just picked up the first book for a flight to an interview last week, and am already planning on buying the rest. If Joffrey dies, I'm buying the rest today.

You probably want to stay out of this thread until you're caught up, but:

Spoiler:

Joffrey dies

Tanglebones wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:

You'd better not be screwing with me. I just picked up the first book for a flight to an interview last week, and am already planning on buying the rest. If Joffrey dies, I'm buying the rest today.

You probably want to stay out of this thread until you're caught up, but:

Spoiler:

Joffrey dies

Yes, there is a thread for you! Go here!

Spoiler:

valar morghulis

gore wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:
Bonus_Eruptus wrote:

You'd better not be screwing with me. I just picked up the first book for a flight to an interview last week, and am already planning on buying the rest. If Joffrey dies, I'm buying the rest today.

You probably want to stay out of this thread until you're caught up, but:

Spoiler:

Joffrey dies

Yes, there is a thread for you! Go here!

Spoiler:

valar morghulis

I like spoilers, and I've watched all of Season 2, but none of Season 1 yet.

Spoiler:

Ned Stark was dead the whole time

FlamingPeasant wrote:
Spoiler:

Ned Stark was dead the whole time

Ultra spoiler:

Spoiler:

It's all just within Bran's fever dream

I watched the last episode via HBO Go (web video quality) late in the evening through bleary eyes. Did they show Manse's army when they crested the ridge? Did they show giants riding mammoths?

Also, how is Sam the Slayer supposed to get out of being totally engulfed in white walkers? I thought he only faced off against one or two in the book? My memory of the series is not perfect.

I remember drifting in and out of sleep during the House of the Undying part (audio book), which was kind of cool considering the scene, but I missed what actually happened. I know they changed it for the show (stealing dragons), but how did the scene play out in the book?

I am actually going to read the series in print during the season breaks, but it is a while before I will get to the Qarth. Just stared Book 1.

P.S.
I am considering buying the series via Amazon video. Can anyone speak to the video quality? Does Amazon allow you to force HD streams or will it always adjust to bandwidth. I do not mind a few minutes of buffering, but I hate bad video quality.

I like the idea that in this spoiler thread we only use the spoiler tag for fake spoilers.

gore wrote:

I like the idea that in this spoiler thread we only use the spoiler tag for fake spoilers.

Spoiler:

Snape killed Rhaegar

Tanglebones wrote:
Spoiler:

Snape killed Rhaegar

But did he? On the surface we're made to believe that, but signs suggest it was

Spoiler:

Jaqen

gore wrote:

I don't know - I read this as being completely out of her own self interest. She had a rough time of things in Kings Landing - she was nearly discovered several times, the city was nearly sacked around her, and now her patron is stripped of any power he might have had to protect her.

She has a sweet deal with Tyrion, but it's only getting more dangerous. It would be even sweeter if she could convince him to pack his bags and retire to somewhere a bit safer, and she was just trying to manipulate him along that path.

Except that her sweet deal with Tyrion would get a lot less sweet once he's cut off from his family's funds. I get her wanting to pack her bags and move away, and from what we know of the Free Cities she'd probably do quite well there, but what use would she have for a half-pint exiled noble unless there was some actual affection there? I'd tend to think that if it was nothing more than pure self-interest, she'd have been more inclined to just up and leave without him. Varys probably would've sprung for passage in exchange for the occasional report on the goings-on in Pentos. Can't have too many little birds scattered about.

heavyfeul wrote:

Also, how is Sam the Slayer supposed to get out of being totally engulfed in white walkers? I thought he only faced off against one or two in the book?

My recollection is he killed a single White Walker as he and some other watchmen were being chased after the camp was overrun.

hbi2k wrote:
gore wrote:

I don't know - I read this as being completely out of her own self interest. She had a rough time of things in Kings Landing - she was nearly discovered several times, the city was nearly sacked around her, and now her patron is stripped of any power he might have had to protect her.

She has a sweet deal with Tyrion, but it's only getting more dangerous. It would be even sweeter if she could convince him to pack his bags and retire to somewhere a bit safer, and she was just trying to manipulate him along that path.

Except that her sweet deal with Tyrion would get a lot less sweet once he's cut off from his family's funds. I get her wanting to pack her bags and move away, and from what we know of the Free Cities she'd probably do quite well there, but what use would she have for a half-pint exiled noble unless there was some actual affection there? I'd tend to think that if it was nothing more than pure self-interest, she'd have been more inclined to just up and leave without him. Varys probably would've sprung for passage in exchange for the occasional report on the goings-on in Pentos. Can't have too many little birds scattered about.

Well, if what she wanted to do was cut and run, there's no reason she couldn't just use Tyrion to set the trip up and then bail on him once she was there.

Also, from the books I got the sense that Shea - just like Bronn - has some degree of affection for Tyrion, even if it's never enough to override their own self interest. It's not like Shea could have changed anything by telling the truth at Tyrion's trial, even if she had wanted to, and she may as well save her own neck than die for her former employer.

So, from that perspective, Shea's actions in the TV series make sense to me.

heavyfeul,
I have the feeling that Sam doesn't fight them, they ignore him on the way to the Wall.

I'm with Gore, Tyrion is useful for setting up the trip with his connections and money (of which I doubt Shae has much of her own), she just happens to like him too.

I think they are setting up for a real emotional hit. In the book I got the sense that Tryion's relationship was Shea was built on both of them "pretending" to love each other, but Tyrion's last trauma forced his psyche to ignore that pretense on a vicersal level. I felt like Shea was a victim in the whole affair and Tryion used her in a very selfish way. He may have hoped for the best, but he is smart enough to know it would end as it did. It is something he has probably re-lived several times with other prostitutes.

I think they want to make the story more romantic, like they did with Rob and his love interest.

Spoiler:

Anakin Lannister is Jon Snow's father.

Spoiler:

"Rosebud" was the name of Rheagar's sled.