2012 MLB Season Discussion: Off-Season

Jayhawker wrote:

Nope. Just use the the tech to establish a consistent strike zone.

to borrow a word from the new spiderman movie thread...

TRADITION!

ChrisLTD wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

Nope. Just use the the tech to establish a consistent strike zone.

to borrow a word from the new spiderman movie thread...

TRADITION!

It's one or the other. Either live with umps that have always missed lots of balls and strikes since the 1800's, or embrace new technology to provide consistent strike zones for all players.

Jayhawker wrote:

It's one or the other. Either live with umps that have always missed lots of balls and strikes since the 1800's, or embrace new technology to provide consistent strike zones for all players.

Eh... I think the hybrid stuff works well in tennis, why does it have to be 100% computerized in baseball?

ChrisLTD wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

It's one or the other. Either live with umps that have always missed lots of balls and strikes since the 1800's, or embrace new technology to provide consistent strike zones for all players.

Eh... I think the hybrid stuff works well in tennis, why does it have to be 100% computerized in baseball?

Obviously it doesn't have to be. But why would letting batters and pitchers have three challenges be better? As many times as the umps are wrong, I've seen players go nuts over calls that were right.

We accepted that certain pitchers and certain batters get different strike zones. More than that, they get a different variable of leeway. An ump is much more unlikely to call a called third strike on Matt Holliday than Skip Schumaker. Adam Wainright is less likely to get a ball called for ball four than Jake Westbrook.

We either need to embrace the tradition of the human element of variable strike zones and bad calls, or eliminate it. I'm in favor of eliminating.

IMAGE(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1310236/suckieump.png)

Pitch 6 for strike three was not a bad call. It was wrong, but it was the classic too close to take pitch. There is no excuse for getting mad over that call.

Part of the game is understanding what the ump will likely call a strike or a ball. But nothing is 100%. That third strike by the pitcher was a good pitch, because it should have induced a swing. Letting the batter challenge it alters the strategy. But it does so in an inconsistent manner, because you want to limit the number of challenges so much.

And how do you challenge? Do you let one of your scouts watching the feed with the computer strike zone make the call? Do you let an emotional batter or pitcher make the call? He can get a signal from the dugout regardless. I think it just adds to the confusion and will actually just be one more thing for fans to complain about when a call does, or doesn't, get challenged. Or when a call, late in the game in a critical moment, can't because the challenges were used up.

I'm in favor of streamlining the process instead of adding to the chaos.

Scorecasting has a great section on balls and strikes, but here is a part of an interview in Wired with the author.

http://www.wired.com/playbook/2011/0...

Wired.com: You guys show that refs are biased toward the home team and you show with PitchFX that umpires adjust their strike zone depending on the situation, so do you think we should just get rid of umpires in baseball?

Wertheim: That’s a good question. PitchFX calls it accurately; it’s unambiguous, so from a fairness perspective it’s hard to argue against it. But as fans we like whistle swallowing. I don’t think fans overall are opposed to games being called differently at different times. We found that a player like Albert Pujols gets very few called third strikes, but also very few ball fours because the umpire internalizes that fans want to see him put the ball in play — you want him to strike out swinging, you want him to hit a home run, but you don’t want a judgment call. So, in some ways, whistle swallowing is following what fans want.

From a fairness perspective, if you have the capacity to call balls and strikes pretty flawlessly, it’s hard to argue against that. But I think we want more from our officials from a robotic ball and strike. I think we like to have our officials to have sensitivity to the rhythms of the game.

I think that's the key. Either we keep the tradition and let the umpires make the calls based on the flow of the game or institute a fair system.

IMAGE(http://www.wired.com/playbook/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/umpires1.jpg)
IMAGE(http://www.wired.com/playbook/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/umpires2.jpg)

Two really great posts, Jayhawker.

Yeah. You've convinced me. Right now I can't abide getting rid of umps, so I'd rather not have any computerized interference.

There'd never be a perfect game again without umps.

garion333 wrote:

There'd never be a perfect game again without umps.

This doesn't strike me as a bad thing. If umps are exerting their influence to change the outcome of the game, then they're overstepping their mandate.

AndrewA wrote:
garion333 wrote:

There'd never be a perfect game again without umps.

This doesn't strike me as a bad thing. If umps are exerting their influence to change the outcome of the game, then they're overstepping their mandate.

Perhaps, but they also make mistakes. A perfect game doesn't happen without mistakes ... or a little leeway for the pitcher in the late innings, which clearly has happened.

Got to see Dice-K face Matsui at the Durham Bulls game here tonight. Dice-K gave up a couple homers in a shut out loss for his minor league Red Sox team. Not so good.

Dammit. 12 left on base for the rays tonight.

Also I've never seen so many fans so excited about being in last place.

Never been to a Cubs game, eh?

Blind_Evil wrote:

Never been to a Cubs game, eh?

Dude, he's a Rays fan. He's never seen so many people excited about being in first place!

Stele wrote:

Dammit. 12 left on base for the rays tonight.

Also I've never seen so many fans so excited about being in last place. :P

Yeah, Stele you aren't allowed to go to games anymore! Have they ever won when you went to a game?

Stele wrote:

Dammit. 12 left on base for the rays tonight.

Also I've never seen so many fans so excited about being in last place. routing for the opposing team :P

FTFY

Got to hand it to them, the sox are clawing back. Both starting pitching and bullpen has been solid over the last 6-7 games. That's big since they're 2nd-to-worse in the AL for runs allowed. Offense is coming around too— 2nd place in the AL for runs scored. Let's just not get into blown leads, though!

Kerry Wood is officially done, and this is one of the coolest moments in recent baseball. Though Wood's dominant early career wasn't really sustained, even with his injuries and movement around the league he was a fixture of Chicago and a great Cub who loved the team and the city.

This clip is great. The pitching staff decides to have him go out on a strong K to the tune of a standing ovation from the crowd. He's congratulated by everyone and greeted by his son at the dugout. His curtain call was greeted again with a standing ovation. Watching his face as he walked from the mound to the dugout for the last time... I can't imagine what he was feeling. This stupid office I'm sitting in - dust floating all over the place and getting in my eye.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...

From Wiki:

Career highlights and awards:
-NL Rookie of the Year Award winner (1998)
-2× All-Star selection (2003, 2008)
-Led NL in strikeouts in 2003

One of the best pitching performances ever:

Michael wrote:

Kerry Wood is officially done, and this is one of the coolest moments in recent baseball. Though Wood's dominant early career wasn't really sustained, even with his injuries and movement around the league he was a fixture of Chicago and a great Cub who loved the team and the city.

Heart warming and heart wrenching. It is a real shame he was hobbled by injuries.

Very cool stuff. I have a feeling Strasburg's career might take a similar route.

It's utterly disgraceful how few people attended the Rays/Jays game in Tampa tonight. It looked like the stadium was mostly empty. Sad.

It's like that a lot I'm afraid. I think there are a lot of transplants down here that don't have a ton of loyalty for the Rays or Bucs. I almost feel like I bump into more Yankees fans around town than anything else.

Thats my new yahoo fantasy team slogan.

I haven't followed baseball nearly so closely starting last year, and I clicked 20 times and knew all but 2 of those guys. Meh!

Went to the Bosox-O's game tonight. Sawx look pretty anemic, good effort by Doubront notwithstanding. Nice pitcher's duel until Betemit cracked it open in the 8th.

tboon wrote:

Went to the Bosox-O's game tonight. Sawx look pretty anemic, good effort by Doubront notwithstanding. Nice pitcher's duel until Betemit cracked it open in the 8th.

You can keep Matt Albers.

So I ranked the Red Sox outfielders and bolded the ones that are currently injured.
1. Ellsbury
2. Crawford
3. Sweeney
4. Ross
5. Byrd
6. McDonald
7. Kalish
8. Repko
9. Nava
10. Podsednik
11. Lin

Add Youkilis to that, two starting pitchers and a closer, and you can see why they're at the bottom of the AL East.

Waino's back!

He had rough start of the season, but just dominated the Padres last night with a complete game shutout with just 4 hits and walk to go with 9K's.

Hopefully the Cards dry spell is ending.

Trophy Husband wrote:

So I ranked the Red Sox outfielders and bolded the ones that are currently injured.
1. Ellsbury
2. Crawford
3. Sweeney
4. Ross
5. Byrd
6. McDonald
7. Kalish
8. Repko
9. Nava
10. Podsednik
11. Lin

Add Youkilis to that, two starting pitchers and a closer, and you can see why they're at the bottom of the AL East.

The Sox pinch hit Podsednik (for Nava) in the 7th - I could not believe that guy is still in the league.

Trophy Husband wrote:

So I ranked the Red Sox outfielders and bolded the ones that are currently injured.
1. Ellsbury
2. Crawford
3. Sweeney
4. Ross
5. Byrd
6. McDonald
7. Kalish
8. Repko
9. Nava
10. Podsednik
11. Lin

Add Youkilis to that, two starting pitchers and a closer, and you can see why they're at the bottom of the AL East.

I like not to think that they're in last place, rather, straddling .500.