NCAA Football 2012 Season Catch-All

I was looking forward to Louisville in the Big 12, but the ACC is not a bad landing spot. It will be interesting to see how the defections hurt their football side of things.

I was still hoping Louisville would still help round out an expansion to 14 or 16 teams. But apparently they have dropped out of consideration for the Big 12.

Of course, if FSU and Clemson breaks down, then it could be back on.

I was looking forward to Louisville in the Big 12, but the ACC is not a bad landing spot. It will be interesting to see how the defections hurt their football side of things.

I was still hoping Louisville would still help round out an expansion to 14 or 16 teams. But apparently they have dropped out of consideration for the Big 12.

Of course, if FSU and Clemson breaks down, then it could be back on.

FSU not in the ACC, I don't know how to feel about that

karmajay wrote:

FSU not in the ACC, I don't know how to feel about that :(

I'm still not over them not being an independent < Dating myself.

This bowl game between the SEC and big 12 is looking like a major game-changer. Think about the amount of money the conferences can keep by producing their own bowls.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?...

CASHING IN: When you start to calculate the money to be made by the Big 12 and SEC from the Behemoth Bowl by cutting out the middle man, you need Mark Zuckerberg's accountant to help count the money.

Jerry Jones figures to be a player for the game in his 100,000-seat Cowboys Stadium, as does the 76,000-seat Superdome.

If the Fiesta Bowl, which figures to be on the outside looking in (after being the BCS tie-in for the Big 12 champion) because of its remote location to the Big 12 and SEC wants to stay in the mix, it will probably have to outbid Jerry Jones. (Good luck.)

Whoever wants to televise the game - ABC/ESPN, CBS, Fox, NBC, etc. - will be dealing with the Big 12 and the SEC, who will split the money evenly. The projections right now are for the TV revenue alone to reach between $34 million and $50 million per year for five years - a potential total of $250 million over the life of the contract.

When you consider ABC/ESPN's current, four-year BCS contract to show the national championship game is $500 million (it expires after the 2013 season), you get the significance of the money.

Let's project the ticket sales for 100,000-seat Jerryworld at $150 per- that's $15 million. And that doesn't even include, suites, concessions, parking or a title sponsor (some of which would have to be shared with Jerry).

And if total revenue from the Behemoth Bowl, modestly, reached $70 million per year, the Big 12 would be splitting its share - $35 million - between 10 schools, while the SEC would be splitting $35 million between 14 schools (thanks to Texas A&M and Missouri).

So we're talking about doubling the payouts made last year by the Fiesta, Sugar, Rose and Orange bowls. And not even the Big Ten and Pac-12 could top that unless it told the Rose Bowl, all the money from that game would be going to the conferences and that the bowl game could keep proceeds from the Rose parade.

This could drive the big four to 16 teams in seconds flat. The next step is for the four conferences to agree to the Rose Bowl and Behemoth Bowl champs to play, in a game that will add even more $$$ to the conferences. The ACC and Big East will just be locked out, and probably folded into one minor conference by the time the big four get down picking off the football powers that are left.

It's going to propel Notre Dame into a conference, and the sheer dollars offered by the Behemoth Bowl may actually make the Big 12 better landing spot. Some rumors are that the Big 12 will get back to 12 with FSU and Notre Dame now.

I really don't know how it will shake out, and it probably complicates a meaningful playoff significantly. But there is some ridiculous amount of money being discussed now. And there is suddenly push to ditch the major bowls altogether. With major conferences arranging their own bowls, there is no reason to share it with anyone else.

The real losers among the big four would be the Big 10 and PAC-12, who have no real good way to get out of the Rose Bowl, leaving their championship game as worth much less money to the conferences.

Just cleave college football programs away from the colleges at that point. It's a minor league system. Treat it that way.

DSGamer wrote:

Just cleave college football programs away from the colleges at that point. It's a minor league system. Treat it that way.

If the discussion is how to make college football (and basketball, for that matter) a noble academic endeavor, I agree.

But in the real world, I enjoy the product of both, regardless of the ridiculous facade of amateur athletics. I'm all for paying the players and providing much more lenient transfer rules.

I really don't mind the further separation of the haves and have nots. The question comes down to who gets left out by the time they get to 64 teams, and how much will the NCAA football fan base accept the Big Four and the shuffling of remaining teams in the ACC and Big East to FCS status. And will congress let the Big Four get away with it.

As a pure product of college football, a tightly run package of four conferences of 16 teams battling to meet in a Championship Game based on actual performance instead of polls is pretty awesome. Division winners play off to meet conference winners, who play off to gain entrance the national championship game. If the 16 teams are split into four team divisions, there would be two rounds of divisional playoffs before meeting another conference winner. It would essentially be a 16 team playoff to conclude the season.

If FSU and Clemson are in the Big 12, that leaves another 14 teams left to be added to the Big Four. The PAC-12 is in the toughest position to get to 16. The SEC needs just two, who will probably get plucked frm the ACC. Then the big 10 and big 12 will raid the rest of the the Big East and ACC for another eight teams. And Notre Dame will probably have to buy-in. The Big 10 is the best fit, but the Big 12 will accommodate their TV contract with NBC.

I think it could be awesome. Not only would the bowls be dumped, but the polls would no longer dictate who makes it to the National Championship game.

  1. Win your division
  2. Win your conference championship game
  3. Win your championship bowl game
  4. Play in the national championship game

If this is what is happening, then the game of musical chairs is afoot. The music stops when all four conferences get to 16. Who gets in, and who gets left out?

The Playoff is coming
The Payoff is coming

Spoiler:

Yes, I did mean that

From USAToday

Conference commissioners met with an oversight committee of university presidents and chancellors here Tuesday to approve the four-team seeded playoff, consisting of two semifinal games in bowls and a national championship game that will be put up for bid.

Commissioners presented the plan for 30 minutes then took questions from the presidents, who then deliberated for about three hours before announcing their approval

I thought this quote was interesting:

"A four-team playoff doesn't go too far," said Virginia Tech President Charles Steger, chair of the presidential oversight committee. "It goes just the right amount."

They are going to rotate the "mor realer" championship game around the bowls.

2014 here we come

Well as they pointed out on First Take this morning it's just ridiculous when Ohio St had 50 days between their last game and the BCS final. Telling me that you can't squeeze a 16-team playoff in over 7 weeks? Yeah right.

I'd rather see 8, with the current 6 BCS conference champs + 2 at large. With only 4 the sh*t is really going to hit the fan when 2 of the 4 are SEC.

Stele wrote:

Well as they pointed out on First Take this morning it's just ridiculous when Ohio St had 50 days between their last game and the BCS final. Telling me that you can't squeeze a 16-team playoff in over 7 weeks? Yeah right.

I'd rather see 8, with the current 6 BCS conference champs + 2 at large. With only 4 the sh*t is really going to hit the fan when 2 of the 4 are SEC. :D

I look forward to complaining about 12 - 0 Boise State, etc. getting left out of the picture at #5 while USC is ranked #4 and making the tournament.

DSGamer wrote:
Stele wrote:

Well as they pointed out on First Take this morning it's just ridiculous when Ohio St had 50 days between their last game and the BCS final. Telling me that you can't squeeze a 16-team playoff in over 7 weeks? Yeah right.

I'd rather see 8, with the current 6 BCS conference champs + 2 at large. With only 4 the sh*t is really going to hit the fan when 2 of the 4 are SEC. :D

I look forward to complaining about 12 - 0 Boise State, etc. getting left out of the picture at #5 while USC is ranked #4 and making the tournament.

Not gonna happen...well, unless they finally find someone who can kick that brown leather thing between those yellow posts.

What bothers me is that we are still not getting focus on driving parity in the sport. I think that is the biggest benefit of the basketball tournament. Even the mid-majors have a chance to make some noise on the national stage because every conference has a bid to the field of 64.

Limiting it to the 4 'best' teams is just more of the same. just trading frustration by teams 2-6 for frustration by teams 5-8.

I don't mind them throwing the fans a bone, I just wish is wasn't a chickenbone for us all to choke on.

firesloth wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
Stele wrote:

Well as they pointed out on First Take this morning it's just ridiculous when Ohio St had 50 days between their last game and the BCS final. Telling me that you can't squeeze a 16-team playoff in over 7 weeks? Yeah right.

I'd rather see 8, with the current 6 BCS conference champs + 2 at large. With only 4 the sh*t is really going to hit the fan when 2 of the 4 are SEC. :D

I look forward to complaining about 12 - 0 Boise State, etc. getting left out of the picture at #5 while USC is ranked #4 and making the tournament.

Not gonna happen...well, unless they finally find someone who can kick that brown leather thing between those yellow posts.

Sure. Or --insert mid-major team here--.

gizmo wrote:

I don't mind them throwing the fans a bone, I just wish is wasn't a chickenbone for us all to choke on.

And the other thing that's been stressed today is that it's a 12 year deal. Saw some quotes from some of the coaches and presidents about "limiting bracket creep" and not wanting this to get too big like March Madness, and how it would "dilute the regular season" or how they had to "protect the other bowls".

Still the same bullsh*t arguments. Bowls are stupid. In effect you do have 50% of the league going to the "postseason" every year, just like the NBA or NHL, except it's not actually playoffs. The regular season still matters for seeding. Nobody wants to be the 16th seed in a real playoff system and have to face #1 undefeated someone on their home field, so the regular season would matter. But even then, at least the 16th seed would have a chance on the field. What the hell does the 16th team in the country get now? Last year they got the Champs Sports Bowl in Orlando, and lost. I'd rather they dump all the bowls, make them into playoff games, and have a 32 team field. That's a reasonable playoffs: 32, 16, 8, 4, 2, over 5 weeks. We've already established the sometimes 7 week period between last game of the season and BCS final, so there's more than enough time. Also 32/120 (26.7%) feels about right since basketball is 68/345 (19.7%). 16 (13%) would be ok, but if you do 16, you'd probably have to keep a dozen+ bowls around for the other non-playoff teams to play in.

I just don't understand who running things in football looks at the billions of dollars March Madness makes and says "nah we don't want any of that over here".

Stele wrote:

I just don't understand who running things in football looks at the billions of dollars March Madness makes and says "nah we don't want any of that over here". :?

Haven't they proven recently that the people truly "running college football" are the boards running the bowls?

So... the hammer has been dropped on Penn St.

• $60 million fine
• Vacation of wins from 1998-2011 (112 wins)*
• Four-year postseason ban
• Four-year scholarship reduction (10 initial; 20 total)
• Players may transfer and play immediately at other schools
• Athletic department on probation for five years
* Joe Paterno record now 298-136-3; fifth on FBS all-time list

I didn't watch the whole announcement earlier. Just saw on OtL on ESPN. There's a nice bit in there that the current Penn St scholarship players get to keep their scholarships, as long as they maintain GPA, whether they play football or not. Not sure how many would even use that, or maybe that's because of the reduced scholarships for the upcoming years? I dunno. But it's cool that those guys can still get an education for free.

$60 million is the gross from one year of football stuff there.

I'm torn about this, as I'm sure many people are. It seems that so many of the major players in this scandal are already gone and in some cases indicted. So, have the NCAA penalties help move Penn St away from their awful approach to the whole thing, or was that already done? Is there anything in here that helps change the culture at Penn St in a way that hasn't already been done through the public embarrassment, the legal proceedings, and the investigations summed up in the Freeh report? I don't think so; this is purely punitive.

I am not arguing that the punishment is unwarranted. It is, however, uncreative. It certainly does send a message to other universities that they should be in control of their football and other sports programs, and maybe that's ultimately the aim.

I am just not sure what changes this punishment will cause at Penn St. that aren't already in the works, what it does that helps the victims, what it does that helps a university move beyond the scandal.

In the end, I suppose, I'm not sure the NCAA could or should be tasked with those particular goals. I wish someone had a good answer for how to pursue those goals. The problem is, I suppose, they're intractable without time for cultural change within the university and hard reflection on their part.

From the looks of the Penn State fan boards and the fact that they had to be harangued into removing that statue, I'd say Penn State needs as loud of a wake up call as can be provided. Seems a ton of (appears to be the majority, but maybe they're just the most vocal) their community is in complete denial about the school's and Paterno's culpability in all of this.

Yeah, it's a shame for the hundreds of thousands of decent alumni and players - and if they'd had any kind of non-moronic response to it, I'd probably feel a bit of sympathy. As far as I can tell as a neutral observer, the Penn State crowd is in lockstep with the Paternos, and pathetically tone-deaf.

I'm saving any pity or sympathy for the victims here.

Oh, and firesloth: To your question (with which I disagree in premise, as I have no problems with punitive punishment nor making an example in this case) - the $60mm is to go to a fund to help prevent child sexual abuse. That's not punitive, and in fact it's at least somewhat creative. And hell, I really thought the entire list of sanctions was creative in that it's the death penalty of a thousand cuts, and the NCAA got the Board of Penn State to sign off on it remarkably quickly. I half think the NCAA pulled a real fast one here by imposing punishments that may as well be death, and sold them to the board as "in the interest of moving forward, if y'all will sign off on these sanctions there will be no suspension of football nor TV". Then the board jumped all over the deal before they had time to think that (potentially) losing all your players, 10 scholarships per year, 4 years of no bowls, and $60mm was probably not much better than death itself.

Yeah there was a statement from the Paterno family saying that the Penn St board failed to do their jobs by signing off so quickly and not appealing or something.

Hm, googling... here it is.

That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public's understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.
Stele wrote:

Yeah there was a statement from the Paterno family saying that the Penn St board failed to do their jobs by signing off so quickly and not appealing or something.

Hm, googling... here it is.

That the President, the Athletic Director and the Board of Trustees accepted this unprecedented action by the NCAA without requiring a full due process hearing before the Committee on Infractions is an abdication of their responsibilities and a breach of their fiduciary duties to the University and the 500,000 alumni. Punishing past, present and future students of the University because of Sandusky’s crimes does not serve justice. This is not a fair or thoughtful action; it is a panicked response to the public's understandable revulsion at what Sandusky did.

Tone

Deaf

This from the same family whose father renegotiated his contractor before leaving. A family that tried to hold the school hostage for good luxury box tickets for life. Tone deaf.

My whole issue with everything is that the media has put Joe Paterno as the face of this scandal. Where as I completely agree that what he did was so very wrong, if I had just pulled a Rip Van Winkle, and had no prior knowledge of this scandal, I would have thought that Joe-Pa was the one who was molesting young boys. Some radio guy actually shouted that there was 1 man to blame for all of this, and that was Joe Paterno. This is not the case, as if Jerry Sandusky never existed, this world would be a better place.

I like the approach of the punishments.

They took what the coverup attempted to protect and stripped it away.

1. Protect the program to ensure the ongoing success
-take away scholarships
-take away bowl games
-let players leave that are good enough for other teams to want them

2. Protect JoePa's legacy
-He is no longer the all-time winningest coach.

3. Keep the money rolling in to PSU
-Take a good chunk of the money and use it to counteract the exact kind of issue that led to all of this.

There is no perfect treatment/punishment, but this seems like a good approach for the NCAA to take. They needed to make it clear that they hold their member universities to a standard and Penn State did not meet it.

Fedaykin wrote:

I'm saving any pity or sympathy for the victims here.

Absolutely...I have no sympathy for PSU or its program. I'm just wondering what forces change the best, and this path may be it, in fact.

the $60mm is to go to a fund to help prevent child sexual abuse. That's not punitive, and in fact it's at least somewhat creative. And hell, I really thought the entire list of sanctions was creative in that it's the death penalty of a thousand cuts...

It's funny how $60M sounds small on the scale of the NCAA athletics, but it is, in fact, a very big number that could do some serious good.

It's clear, given that $60M and the loss of bowl revenue from the Big 10, that both the football program and all of the rest of the sports programs at PSU are going to suffer. This certainly will have an impact on the school on all levels.

From the looks of the Penn State fan boards and the fact that they had to be harangued into removing that statue, I'd say Penn State needs as loud of a wake up call as can be provided.

This I hadn't appreciated. I thought most were so shamed by the outcome of the Freeh report that they wouldn't even think about still supporting Paterno. They should have been.

gizmo wrote:

There is no perfect treatment/punishment, but this seems like a good approach for the NCAA to take. They needed to make it clear that they hold their member universities to a standard and Penn State did not meet it.

I suppose this is what is bothering me. There is not correct punishment, given the severity of the crimes.

Regarding their standards: the NCAA through its actions with the big-time athletics programs have created a large number of monsters around the country that have a huge amount of power within their schools. This is an attempt to step back from the brink, to some degree. I don't suspect, though, that it will bring the monsters to heel except in the most extreme situations (like this).

Wow...what a dirty mess.

The Coach's Preseason Poll is out:

1) LSU
2) Alabama
3) Southern Cal
4) Oklahoma
5) Oregon
6) Georgia
7) FSU
8) Michigan
9) South Carolina
10) Arkansas
11) WVU
12) Wisconsin
13) Michigan State
14) Clemson
15) Texas
16) Nebraska
17) TCU
18) Stanford
19) Oklahoma State
20) Virginia Tech
21) Kansas State
22) Boise State
23) Florida
24) Notre Dame
25) Auburn

Others receiving votes (with 2011 records)
Washington (7-6) 64; Louisville (7-6) 46; Georgia Tech (8-5) 35; Cincinnati (10-3) 32; Texas A&M (7-6) 28; Baylor (10-3) 23; Utah (8-5) 22; Mississippi State (7-6) 21; South Florida (5-7) 12; N.C. State (8-5) 11; BYU (10-3) 10; Louisiana Tech (8-5) 10; Virginia (8-5) 9; Houston (13-1) 7; Southern Mississippi (12-2) 6; Central Florida (5-7) 5; Rutgers (9-4) 5; Florida International (8-5) 3; Missouri (8-5) 3; Tennessee (5-7) 3; Northern Illinois (11-3) 2; Texas Tech (5-7) 1

So the Big XII essentially traded #30 and #44 for #11 and #17. Couldn't be happier with the state of the Big XII.

You ask me, the most exciting storyline going this season is whether Kansas can win the 5 games they need to stave off an all-time losing record.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

You ask me, the most exciting storyline going this season is whether Kansas can win the 5 games they need to stave off an all-time losing record.

Kansas won't win more than four, but will be substantially better.

27th eh? Just under the radar. CardStrong!

I'm excited to see how the new look Big 8 works out this year. I hope Coach Rhodes can get Cyclone Nation another win we weren't expected to get. Go ISU!