Xenoblade - New Monolith RPG for Wii

Demyx wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

I really wish the game pre-tracked trash mob kills for those types of quests. It's odd when the game tells you to go kill 10 mobs "to make things safer" when you've killed 50 or more of them when you first arrive in the location.

What I really wish is if the mobs you need to kill for a quest had an indicator of some sort. I don't like opening my quest log to see if this particular Antol or Bunniv is the one I need to appease some tiny jellybean creature.

I think the game in general suffers from interface problems. It's not awful but a lot of things could be better streamlined.

I agree about the pre-track kills too. It's not like the game makes you go collect items you already collected.

SixteenBlue wrote:

I think the game in general suffers from interface problems. It's not awful but a lot of things could be better streamlined.

For someone who likes to swap out and check the stats on new equipment whenever anything drops, I think this part of the interface could use a lot of streamlining. (Nitpicks ahoy!)

I really don't like that when you compare two items, it shows you which stats changed but not by how much. Most games do this, I don't know why this one doesn't.

I don't like that it doesn't show you what items in the inventory are new from the last time you checked it.

I don't like that it doesn't automatically unequip gems from equipment when you remove a piece of equipment. In fact, if you're replacing an equipment with a slot with another equipment with a slot, it'd be great if it prompted you to keep the same gems in.

Demyx wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:

I think the game in general suffers from interface problems. It's not awful but a lot of things could be better streamlined.

For someone who likes to swap out and check the stats on new equipment whenever anything drops, I think this part of the interface could use a lot of streamlining. (Nitpicks ahoy!)

I really don't like that when you compare two items, it shows you which stats changed but not by how much. Most games do this, I don't know why this one doesn't.

I don't like that it doesn't show you what items in the inventory are new from the last time you checked it.

I don't like that it doesn't automatically unequip gems from equipment when you remove a piece of equipment. In fact, if you're replacing an equipment with a slot with another equipment with a slot, it'd be great if it prompted you to keep the same gems in.

Exactly. The stats diff is really annoying because of the physical vs ether defense tradeoffs. If it were just one stat to analyze it would be easy enough to deal with it. Keep equiping blue items until there's no blue left. Doesn't work that way though.

I put in another 3 hours or so last night and I think the game has finally hooked me.

Currently I'm working through

Spoiler:

the mines under Colony 6.

SixteenBlue wrote:
Demyx wrote:
shoptroll wrote:

I really wish the game pre-tracked trash mob kills for those types of quests. It's odd when the game tells you to go kill 10 mobs "to make things safer" when you've killed 50 or more of them when you first arrive in the location.

What I really wish is if the mobs you need to kill for a quest had an indicator of some sort. I don't like opening my quest log to see if this particular Antol or Bunniv is the one I need to appease some tiny jellybean creature.

I think the game in general suffers from interface problems. It's not awful but a lot of things could be better streamlined.

I agree about the pre-track kills too. It's not like the game makes you go collect items you already collected.

Agreed. Considering the game has achievements for "Killing N Xs" where X is a category of enemy (e.g. insects), they clearly already track that to some level. They could just track it at a more granular level and hook into that system.

Since I found out here that trashmob / mcguffin quests don't yield XP, only money, I've actually stopped taking quests from unnamed NPCs. Quests from named NPCs are way more interesting. There is still the occasional dumb quests, but even when they do they usually have some meaningful story bits to them.

Garden Ninja wrote:

Agreed. Considering the game has achievements for "Killing N Xs" where X is a category of enemy (e.g. insects), they clearly already track that to some level. They could just track it at a more granular level and hook into that system.

Since I found out here that trashmob / mcguffin quests don't yield XP, only money, I've actually stopped taking quests from unnamed NPCs. Quests from named NPCs are way more interesting. There is still the occasional dumb quests, but even when they do they usually have some meaningful story bits to them.

I take them because there's no real harm.

Garden Ninja wrote:

Since I found out here that trashmob / mcguffin quests don't yield XP, only money, I've actually stopped taking quests from unnamed NPCs. Quests from named NPCs are way more interesting. There is still the occasional dumb quests, but even when they do they usually have some meaningful story bits to them.

The only thing is, some more quests open up as affinity with an area gets higher. Sometimes you might need a few of those quests from unnamed NPCs to help boost that and get to more interesting quests. I'm not for sure what the ratio is, and if you can get 5* affinity without doing any unnameds or not.

Also, I think it's usually an unnamed NPC that gives some of the "kill unique named monster" quests, and those you always want to kill anyway, for the extra drops, and affinity coin. So might as well get the quest and town affinity as well.

Demyx wrote:

I don't like that it doesn't show you what items in the inventory are new from the last time you checked it.

Isn't there a sorting option for that?

Overall though, the game feels like a big step backward in terms of menu UI. Which is really weird because it feels like they ignored a bunch of lessons that were learned in the SNES and PSX era of JRPGs.

shoptroll wrote:

Isn't there a sorting option for that?

It puts most recent first, but that doesn't tell me which ones I haven't seen before unless I specifically remember what was the previous "latest" item.

SixteenBlue wrote:

I take them because there's no real harm.

Stele wrote:

The only thing is, some more quests open up as affinity with an area gets higher. Sometimes you might need a few of those quests from unnamed NPCs to help boost that and get to more interesting quests. I'm not for sure what the ratio is, and if you can get 5* affinity without doing any unnameds or not.

Also, I think it's usually an unnamed NPC that gives some of the "kill unique named monster" quests, and those you always want to kill anyway, for the extra drops, and affinity coin. So might as well get the quest and town affinity as well.

You're right, there isn't any harm, even if it's just more money. I hadn't thought about the area affinity thing; that's a good point. I'd largely been avoiding them because they clutter up the quest log, but honestly, even understanding how "New" and "Current" work, that thing isn't worth a damn anyway, so maybe I should start picking them up again, then ignore basically ignore them. I still wish there were better filtering options. And that the game remembered which filter you used last on a given screen, especially the quest log which defaults to "All".

It'd be great if the quest log defaulted to "unfinished". Who really wants to scroll through pages of finished quests to go look at things they have left to do?

Demyx wrote:

It'd be great if the quest log defaulted to "unfinished". Who really wants to scroll through pages of finished quests to go look at things they have left to do?

Heh. I think I spent a few minutes earlier this week looking for a way to filter out finished quests and couldn't find a way

shoptroll wrote:
Demyx wrote:

It'd be great if the quest log defaulted to "unfinished". Who really wants to scroll through pages of finished quests to go look at things they have left to do?

Heh. I think I spent a few minutes earlier this week looking for a way to filter out finished quests and couldn't find a way :(

I think of all of the bad UI designs, that one was the worst. I would think with the sheer volume of side quests that they would put some effort into reasonable filtering.

SixteenBlue wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Demyx wrote:

It'd be great if the quest log defaulted to "unfinished". Who really wants to scroll through pages of finished quests to go look at things they have left to do?

Heh. I think I spent a few minutes earlier this week looking for a way to filter out finished quests and couldn't find a way :(

I think of all of the bad UI designs, that one was the worst. I would think with the sheer volume of side quests that they would put some effort into reasonable filtering.

I think it was Clockwork that described Catherine as a really big-budget indie game? Xenoblade strikes me as a really low-budget AAA game. I think I prefer the former, honestly.

Minarchist wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
Demyx wrote:

It'd be great if the quest log defaulted to "unfinished". Who really wants to scroll through pages of finished quests to go look at things they have left to do?

Heh. I think I spent a few minutes earlier this week looking for a way to filter out finished quests and couldn't find a way :(

I think of all of the bad UI designs, that one was the worst. I would think with the sheer volume of side quests that they would put some effort into reasonable filtering.

I think it was Clockwork that described Catherine as a really big-budget indie game? Xenoblade strikes me as a really low-budget AAA game. I think I prefer the former, honestly.

I got both games on the same day. I hadn't though to compare them that way but now that you mention it that's really insightful. I definitely prefer the former although I'm enjoying Xenoblade as well. If Xenoblade didn't have the quality underneath that it has it would be plain awful. It basically succeeds in spite of itself which is not a good accomplishment.

Minarchist wrote:

I think it was Clockwork that described Catherine as a really big-budget indie game? Xenoblade strikes me as a really low-budget AAA game. I think I prefer the former, honestly.

I almost wonder if that's part of the reason why Nintendo of America dragged their heels on releasing it. As far as UI's go, I definitely expect better of this than Nintendo, especially of a developer with a supposedly good pedigree. I'd be genuinely surprised if Last Story isn't plagued with a similar issue (I think most MistWalker games have some glaring flaw?) and Pandora's Tower I've heard is pretty average.

I'm still glad we got the game over here, but I don't believe this is an OMG BEST JRPG EVER that fans whipped themselves into a fury over. Is it just me or is there always this air of mystique about Japanese games that aren't released here in the US? Like "we're not worthy" or something?

If you just filter "new," you'll get almost every unfinished quest. It's worked for me for the first 20 hours, anyway. The only unfinished quest that doesn't show up as "new" is the quest to find the dead guy's stuff for his mother.

I wish they just gave you the hearts to hearts. The side quests are mostly forgettable. Might just youtube them and forget about these silly quest.

shoptroll wrote:

I almost wonder if that's part of the reason why Nintendo of America dragged their heels on releasing it. As far as UI's go, I definitely expect better of this than Nintendo, especially of a developer with a supposedly good pedigree. I'd be genuinely surprised if Last Story isn't plagued with a similar issue (I think most MistWalker games have some glaring flaw?) and Pandora's Tower I've heard is pretty average.

We've gone around and around on this in the JRPG thread a couple times, but the short version is that Nintendo probably dragged their feet bringing this over because they didn't think it would sell well in North America. I don't know what the sales numbers have looked like, but considering the performance of other JRPGs the last few years, I think they were right to be concerned.

As far as polish goes, Nintendo has a reputation for polish, but Monolith does not, and I get the sense that Nintendo was taking a more hands-off approach on this project for the sake of Monolith's fan base in Japan. Monolith's previous projects (Xenogears, Xenosaga) were pretty notoriously obtuse and unpolished in parts.

I'm still glad we got the game over here, but I don't believe this is an OMG BEST JRPG EVER that fans whipped themselves into a fury over. Is it just me or is there always this air of mystique about Japanese games that aren't released here in the US? Like "we're not worthy" or something?

There's definitely an air of mystique about unreleased Japanese games, although Xenoblade has more mystique than most (Mother 3 would probably be the big one).

First, Xenoblade was announced at E3 in 2009, so when it was announced that it wouldn't be coming to America, it felt like something that had been promised to us and then withdrawn.

Second, Xenoblade started to be viewed as a sort of spiritual successor to Xenogears and Xenosaga, two cult franchises with some very ardent fans; this was especially true when it was renamed Xenoblade from Monado. That gave some very passionate fans high expectations that they sort of passed onto other people.

Third, Xenoblade got a lot of attention because it was a hardcore game on the Wii. Wii fans, and I definitely count myself among them, have been known to get a bit defensive about their love for the little white waggle box and so tend to prop up more gamer games as justification for it. It became not only a game that was supposed to be good but a game that was supposed to make people understand what there is to love about the Wii.

So Xenoblade hit a bit of a trifecta: it was a hardcore Wii game from a cult developer that was originally promised to North America and then withdrawn. The accolades it received from Japan when it was released there two years ago, and from Europe when it released there last year, certainly helped to stoke the fires.

What I think is happening with some North American players is the same sort of thing that happened with Mass Effect 2 last year or will likely happen with Skyrim this year or next: people are getting to play something they've heard a whole lot of positive things about, but when they get their hands on it, it's not as great as they imagined. It's the equivalent of those "this is what the fuss was about?" posts you see from time to time, but writ a little larger.

Just to be clear: I don't think Xenoblade is a bad game or unworthy of the positive attention it's gotten. Just because I quit playing it doesn't mean I think it's bad. But if you want to know why there was so much expected of it, that's what happened.

I think there's some merit to the appraisal, though. Even though a lot of common tropes are still in there, the story has this presentation that makes it feel different. As if the heroes being teenagers means nothing, it takes the audience seriously.

In fact, a lot of it is likely presentation altogether. The game sets its plot up very well with the hero of this war and his friends, dropping little hints about the setting. You get the perspective from a non-teenager of what's going on, which partially stifles complaints that JRPG's are always angsty emo teens with too many zippers on his pants. Though it DOES shift to teenagers, they aren't exhibiting any sort of "Man, I just want to leave this sh*t town!" or "My life is pain!" or "I wonder what happened to my parents in what is surely a history that sets me up to the the Chosen One" (which, oddly enough, is a topic that doesn't come up until the game flashes back on its own accord). It's a pair of teenagers that are satisfied with their lot in life.

Which is perhaps why the journey itself works. You got to see a peaceful life disrupted and a choice is made.

I don't know how to discuss a lot of it without going into spoilers, but when I think back to starting this game up, it felt different than most PS2 RPG's I got around to playing. That said, I also STOPPED playing JRPG's early on that generation and have barely gone back. Xenoblade felt a lot like a Playstation game, though. Xenogears is definitely an easy comparison, but I'd even go so far as to bring up Wild Arms, which also has a major "Whoa, sh*t just got really serious" moment towards the beginning.

Maybe I'm just blabbering, but the writing here is top notch enough that it'll convince everyone that yes, this is an amazing game.

In addition comes the combat, which we've mostly viewed as single-player MMO, but might also be comparable with Dragon Age, thus giving it a wider appeal than your typical JRPG combat system. It's more familiar to both East and West audiences.

But this is all guess work. I haven't been able to touch the game for a couple weeks now and am still stuck at the 14 hour mark. However, I can definitely say my push to complete Mass Effect 3 wasn't nearly as fun as my Saturday spent sinking hours into Xenoblade.

As bad as the Xenoblade quest journal is, it's still better than ME3's.

Got my achievement for completing 200 quests tonight...

I'm surprised that the game seems to be getting such a muted response here, because for me, it's possibly my favorite jrpg of this console generation (though I suspect that Dragon Quest X, if the mmo crap isn't too overdone, will be my favorite in the end). I certainly recognize there are some fairly big flaws in the game, but the overall product is - for me - way more than merely the sum of its parts.

I made it all the way through sword valley last night and just entered the fortress at the end. This game continues to astound me with just how big it is. I don't necessarily consider that a quality. At any rate, the combat and story continue to be Just Compelling Enough™ to propel me forward, though I can't put my finger on exactly why.

I'm running out of upgrade space on my Shulk; should I have already found new skill paths (the ones that are named after character traits)? I haven't seen any yet, despite being well into four-star affinity on Colony 9.

Minarchist wrote:

I'm running out of upgrade space on my Shulk; should I have already found new skill paths (the ones that are named after character traits)? I haven't seen any yet, despite being well into four-star affinity on Colony 9.

There's more skill trees than the 3 each character starts with?

I'm running out of upgrade space on my Shulk; should I have already found new skill paths (the ones that upgrade with AP and are named after character traits)? I haven't seen any yet, despite being well into four-star affinity on Colony 9.
Spoiler:

At this point you should be able to unlock a fourth skill path for everyone in your party via doing various quests. Some require a lot more time investment than others. For Shulk, it will mostly have to do with quests in Colony 9, and if I recall correctly 4 stars there should be enough. However, the quest in question can be a bit hard to find if I remember correctly -- she wanders around catwalks near the market area late at night. I think there was also a prereq quest.

The fifth skill paths don't unlock until VERY late in the game. And as I continually told Stele, you have a lot more to go than you think you do. ;)

EDIT: I'd suggest referencing this spreadsheet if you need more details, but you are still at a point where it includes VERY BIG spoilers for you. A bit further in the story and it might become safer. As a courtesy, I'm going to copy the relevant information into the spoiler block below so you can avoid said BIG spoilers. Incidentally, once you reach the point in the story that I'm referring to here, you'll probably know you've reached it. After that, I'd highly suggest using the spreadsheet if you do think you want to continue doing all the quests.

Spoiler:

Shulk "Pessimism"

Prereqs:
Colony 9 Affinity between 4 and 5*
Jackson's Awakening

Quest:
Désirée's Future

Reyn "Impatience"

Prereqs:
Valak Mountain reached
Hoko, Pokapoka, Ma'crish Talonyth migrated
Cook-Off Counter Attack!
Cook-Off Comeback?

Quest:
Cook-Off Final Blow?! Cook-Off Showdown

Sharla "Reliance"

Prereqs:
Frontier Village 4*
Eryth Sea reached
Secret Innovation
Disinsectization

Quest:
Avenge a Mamapon's Death

Dunban "Obstinance"

Prereqs:
Valak Mountain reached
Magma Rock obtained
Bad Timing
Chilkin Changes

Quest:
The Balance of Power

Melia "Reticence"

Prereqs:
High Entia Tomb clear?
Trouble at the Plant
Punish the Hodes
Mend the Plant
Hode Attack

Quest:
Trouble at the Lighthouse

Riki "Cowardice"

Prereqs:
Prison Island cleared
Medical Advancements OR Let's Make Fillings!
Healing the Healer
Legendary Nopon Charm
Mislabeling Problem

Quest:
Getting Bigger

Frontier Village at 4 stars? Looks like I still have a lot of side-questing to do.

Farscry wrote:

I'm surprised that the game seems to be getting such a muted response here, because for me, it's possibly my favorite jrpg of this console generation (though I suspect that Dragon Quest X, if the mmo crap isn't too overdone, will be my favorite in the end). I certainly recognize there are some fairly big flaws in the game, but the overall product is - for me - way more than merely the sum of its parts.

I love this game. Passionately.

Minarchist wrote:

Frontier Village at 4 stars? Looks like I still have a lot of side-questing to do. :(

Like I said, some require a lot more time investment than others.

Farscry wrote:

I'm surprised that the game seems to be getting such a muted response here, because for me, it's possibly my favorite jrpg of this console generation (though I suspect that Dragon Quest X, if the mmo crap isn't too overdone, will be my favorite in the end). I certainly recognize there are some fairly big flaws in the game, but the overall product is - for me - way more than merely the sum of its parts.

I'm really loving Xenoblade. It really feels like a lot of Level 5's games which is a good thing for me, and in a lot of ways it's the Level 5 game I never got this generation. I'm around 20 hours in and just discovered that there's even more to the game (Colony 6) than I expected, which is pretty awesome. It reminds me of Dark Cloud 2 and Dragon Quest VIII in a lot of ways.

Yeah, there are some interface issues, but I can deal with them. The quest list is a pain but I'm not worrying about completing every quest as there's just too many. Inventory management is a pain and I don't know why they don't show the stat differential (just show if it's better/worse) when looking at a new item, but usually the difference is so small I just pick whatever seems best or I like the look of. So long as my stats are generally trending up over time I'm happy.

Combat is fun, the world is massive and fun to explore and the story has been interesting enough to keep me going. There's also a lot of stuff to do, which I always appreciate. It's going to take me a long time to get through but I'm really enjoying it.

Farscry wrote:

I'm surprised that the game seems to be getting such a muted response here, because for me, it's possibly my favorite jrpg of this console generation (though I suspect that Dragon Quest X, if the mmo crap isn't too overdone, will be my favorite in the end). I certainly recognize there are some fairly big flaws in the game, but the overall product is - for me - way more than merely the sum of its parts.

I'm enjoying it a lot too, but the UI stuff is a disappointment for me. I'm also not moving very fast on it, so I'm way behind everyone and haven't gotten to the real meat yet.