My New Computer is Failing to Boot! - Update: Freezing Up Now!

Seems I can't buy a new computer without something going wrong...

So once again I have a new computer, and it's failing to boot at all, simply comes up with a weird failure screen before it has a chance to run through BIOS, so I'm guessing it's a hardware problem (I had the guys at the shop assemble it to avoid exactly this sort of thing). I'll post up a photo I took of the problem, it's ... interesting to say the least ('scuse the cluttered desk):

IMAGE(http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz356/rothving/2012-05-03_17-48-32_43.jpg)

Any ideas what might be causing this?

By the way, it's an intermittent problem, it did this a few days ago, was fine again on restart. Did it again this morning, but once again, fine on restart. Fired it up after work this afternoon, now it's doing it every time. Sigh... I wish things would just work.

Can you eliminate any hardware? Have you got another monitor/TV you can plug it into?

Besides that my first step would be to break out a screwdriver and make sure every component has a good connection, unseat and reseat everything.
Ignore that, if it's new take it back to the shop and get them to fix it.

Scratched wrote:

Ignore that, if it's new take it back to the shop and get them to fix it.

That's pretty much my thoughts. I guess it's better than voiding the warranty by opening it up, but it feels to me like something might simply be loose, and I could so easily fix that myself... but yeah, I'll take it down on Saturday. Managed to get it to boot at least. I suppose I could leave it running to avoid having it fail again, but that sounds potentially dangerous if something is loose in there.

Yeah, what Scratched said. If they built it they fix it. The second you open the case you've made it your problem.

Unless they specifically said opening the case voids the warranty, it wouldn't hurt a thing to open it up and just check connections - it could be a 30 second fix, and save yourself the trip and headache.

I wouldn't give them the opportunity to say it was your fault. It was broke when you bought it, make them fix or replace it.

Near 20 years in IT and I've always sworn by the maxim that just because you can fix something, doesn't mean you shouldn't make the guy who should have fixed it fix it him/herself. You don't know whether you're looking at a loose connection or a duff component, especially since it's intermittent. Log the fault straight away and if something goes wrong further down the line you've got a stick to beat them with.

Man, you have bad luck with this stuff.

There are many ways that a problem like that could happen. My initial hypothesis is faulty or loose memory, most likely system memory (the DIMMs that are on the motherboard). You could easily have knocked a poorly-fastened DIMM loose in transit... it worked when it was built, but wasn't completely locked down, and came loose when it was moved. It could also be memory failing on the video card, although that usually looks different. You're still in text mode there, and graphic memory corruption doesn't usually happen until you're in bitmap graphics mode, after the video driver in the OS starts.

First thing I'd do would be to reseat all the DIMMs and the video card. Then I'd try another video card, if I had one handy. Then I'd start swapping out DIMMs.

Since you didn't build it, though, just take it back.

I can definitely see taking it back if you can't find a simple solution, but geez, it takes 5 minutes to open the case and check for a loose DIMM and video card seating. That's much less of a pain in the ass than unhooking everything, loading it up in the car and hauling it across town. (not to mention gas is $4/gallon).

To each his own though, I suppose.

I used to work tech support for Dell in the 90's, and it was very common for PC's to arrive with loose cables, dimms, etc.

Jeff-66 wrote:

I can definitely see taking it back if you can't find a simple solution, but geez, it takes 5 minutes to open the case and check for a loose DIMM and video card seating.

While true...

Maq wrote:

I wouldn't give them the opportunity to say it was your fault. It was broke when you bought it, make them fix or replace it.

... this.

Even if the warranty doesn't specifically say opening the case is a voidable offense, if I'm someone buying a prebuilt computer with warranty service, I'm giving them no "easy-outs" on providing that warranty service.

Yeah, you paid somebody else to build the thing. Make them fix it.

*Legion* wrote:

Even if the warranty doesn't specifically say opening the case is a voidable offense, if I'm someone buying a prebuilt computer with warranty service, I'm giving them no "easy-outs" on providing that warranty service.

I get that, but if there's no seal on the case, then it takes almost no effort. I guess I'd never be one to buy a PC I couldn't open up and look inside.

I guess for you guys, lugging a PC tower into my car and across town (plus either a dropoff, or a sit & wait) is much less a hassle than it would be for me. I hate doing that sh*t, especially if all I have to do is simply turn two thumbscrews and pop off a sidewall.

Jeff-66 wrote:

I guess for you guys, lugging a PC tower into my car and across town (plus either a dropoff, or a sit & wait) is much less a hassle than it would be for me. I hate doing that sh*t, especially if all I have to do is simply turn two thumbscrews and pop off a sidewall.

It's got nothing to do with the hassle or even the time, it's a question of potential cost. Is it worth taking the PC to them if it ends up meaning that the builders replace potentially faulty hardware instead of saying "You opened it, you broke it, figure it out yourself"?

I think it is.

Malor wrote:

Man, you have bad luck with this stuff.

There are many ways that a problem like that could happen. My initial hypothesis is faulty or loose memory, most likely system memory (the DIMMs that are on the motherboard). You could easily have knocked a poorly-fastened DIMM loose in transit... it worked when it was built, but wasn't completely locked down, and came loose when it was moved. It could also be memory failing on the video card, although that usually looks different. You're still in text mode there, and graphic memory corruption doesn't usually happen until you're in bitmap graphics mode, after the video driver in the OS starts.

First thing I'd do would be to reseat all the DIMMs and the video card. Then I'd try another video card, if I had one handy. Then I'd start swapping out DIMMs.

Since you didn't build it, though, just take it back.

Memtest 86+ would be a good area to start without taking apart the unit. If it starts showing red blocks it would eliminate the video card out of the equation. Also, a picture of a memtest screen full of failures (or with 12 hours and no failures) would help the computer place isolate the problem.

Thin_J wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:

I guess for you guys, lugging a PC tower into my car and across town (plus either a dropoff, or a sit & wait) is much less a hassle than it would be for me. I hate doing that sh*t, especially if all I have to do is simply turn two thumbscrews and pop off a sidewall.

It's got nothing to do with the hassle or even the time, it's a question of potential cost. Is it worth taking the PC to them if it ends up meaning that the builders replace potentially faulty hardware instead of saying "You opened it, you broke it, figure it out yourself"?

I think it is.

Ok, I give. How would they know you opened it?

Jeff-66 wrote:

Ok, I give. How would they know you opened it?

Because builders almost always put a sticker you have to tear to open it up?

I know of one local builder that actually has a little deal they put on the inside of the case that will show when it's been opened, so you can't see it from the outside. They have to work a bit to put it on, but it keeps them from replacing parts on warranty when people dishonestly open up the PC and void it.

Thin_J wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:

Ok, I give. How would they know you opened it?

Because builders almost always put a sticker you have to tear to open it up?

I know of one local builder that actually has a little deal they put on the inside of the case that will show when it's been opened, so you can't see it from the outside. They have to work a bit to put it on, but it keeps them from replacing parts on warranty when people dishonestly open up the PC and void it.

Fair enough, but I did qualify my suggestion above by saying "but if there's no seal on the case," ...

How does he know one way or another?

Like I said, I know of one local builder that takes off the sidepanel on the motherboard tray side, reaches through, and puts stickers on the inside of the panel you would open to get at the motherboard and all the hardware.

You can't open it without breaking it, and you can't tell it's there until you do.

EvilDead wrote:

Memtest 86+ would be a good area to start without taking apart the unit. If it starts showing red blocks it would eliminate the video card out of the equation. Also, a picture of a memtest screen full of failures (or with 12 hours and no failures) would help the computer place isolate the problem.

I don't think he's running anything with the screenshot in the OP, that's before BIOS.

Ok, thanks. The concept is so foreign to me. I've been building my own for the past, sheese, almost 20 years now, that It's just really odd to me not to be able to do something as simple as opening the sidewall and checking cables.

I know when I worked at Dell, we instructed people with similar issues to do this to check for loose cables, reseat video cards, etc.

I would never buy from a builder that did that.

Of course, I'd never buy from a builder, period, so I don't think he would care about my opinion too much.

Malor wrote:

I would never buy from a builder that did that.

Think about it from their side. They're a small local computer shop. How many times do you replace hardware that got ruined by some middle school kid who opened his PC up and futzed around with it before you find a way to insure you aren't getting hosed on warranty work?

They make it very clear that you can't open the case. If you don't, they always honor their warranty.

Seems like perfectly smart business to me.

Well, I'm definitely not the target market, so my opinion is not relevant in any way.

I only defend it because I was once the kid I mentioned. I put a new videocard in the Gateway system my parents bought me and overtaxed the super weak little power supply in it for months, before it finally gave up spectacularly at 3am, shooting a nice blast of blue sparks out the back of the case, frying the hard drive, and putting an end to a rather long marathon of Counter-Strike.

Gateway ended up replacing the PSU and hard drive under warranty when, in retrospect, they really probably shouldn't have.

They don't have to have a sticker for a shop to know that they've been opened. Many motherboards and cases have intrusion sensors that can detect that the case has been opened, and they will log the event and throw a message on boot.

momgamer wrote:

They don't have to have a sticker for a shop to know that they've been opened. Many motherboards and cases have intrusion sensors that can detect that the case has been opened, and they will log the event and throw a message on boot.

I think the last Dell I bought before I started building my PC's myself used to do this.

It's actually become more prevalent. Most mobos have it enabled, and on most of them it's just a simple jumper to hook it up to the case. It all depends on what the guys who built his machine want to monkey with. From what I've seen you can get around them, but it all depends on the case itself how much of a goat-rodeo that would be.

Yeah, if I was that company I'd be using stickers or the case intrusion sensor to see if anyone messed with it before doing a warranty repair. I'd also be doing a 24 hour burnin on the components before shipping it out the door but that's another issue entirely.

I used to do PC builds for a living, back in the 90s. I took a call from a guy who wanted us to replace his machine under warranty. He'd cut the twist end off the floppy drive cable thinking it was taking up space and all of a sudden his floppy drive wouldn't work....

A great skill in the IT world is what I call "Pink Painting"*. Collating enough data to prove something is someone else's problem. Never underestimate the capacity for people to blame each other for an issue for weeks, leaving the initial problem unresolved.

*(refs: the H2G2 Someone Else's Problem Field)

What I'm taking from this thread is: build your own computer (or learn to)

Jeff-66 wrote:

What I'm taking from this thread is: build your own computer (or learn to) :)

The thing is, and to tie it into the S.E.P. field a bit more, I can appreciate that even if you know how to build a pc, or know how to learn, some people still want someoen else to do it so they have got that fallback. They get it from a store so the know (as far as you can) that it's put together by someone who knows what they're doing (hopefully), and backed by the company you bought it from as a whole unit rather than needing to deal with component returns, that's what they want to pay for.

I know how to build and fix my PC, so I do. I know how to fix my car a bit and get what's probably the right parts when I do, but I take it to a garage because I know they'll do a proper job of it. It's paying for expertise.

Scratched wrote:

I know how to build and fix my PC, so I do. I know how to fix my car a bit and get what's probably the right parts when I do, but I take it to a garage because I know they'll do a proper job of it. It's paying for expertise.

Also my free time is more valuable to me. I will assemble & fix computers or do sys admin work if I'm being paid for it. I quite enjoy those aspects of jobs I've held but at home my time is better spent doing other stuff, especially so when I've already paid someone else to do the job properly for me (see also; reasons I run win7 at home and not BSD)