New Gaming Service/Stardock

An op-ed piece at penny-arcade.com caught my eye and led to this:

http://totalgaming.stardock.com/abou...

I *like* the way Stardock does business......

This looks similar a service provided by Yahoo! as well as one by my personal DSL provider (I''m sure there are more out there) where you ''rent'' the game for 3days to a month and pay accordingly.

I must say though I really like the line about making ''great games, not massive ones''. Some of my favorite games of all time came on 2 1.44mb floppies (Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Wing Commander 1 & 2) and there really hasn''t been too much that has really blown me away since. I am still looking for a copy of SWOTL that I can play on my PC..maybe when I get my XBOX I''ll buy Secret Weapons over Normandy..

Ok, way off topic. Seems kinda neat. I don''t think I would use it though because who buys unheard of games?

I like the idea of this service A LOT. I also love Stardock''s customer service. They''ll have my $89 within a few months.

Reading a bit more deeply into the info presented- with an $89 subscription ($50 if you own ""GalCiv"", I believe) you get to own all of the copies of all of the games you ""subscribe"" to, now and forever. As well, you don''t have to have the CD in the drive (yay! for travelling); the games are yours even if you stop subscribing. You may get copies on CD for the cost of shipping. As well, they hope to line up more games in the next six months. Gives me a chance to play some of the new stuff like ""ORB"" and the *complete* ""Disciples II"".

??

Where are the Steam haters?

They should be all over this thread in seconds on how much this SUXORS!

If this is the evolution of Stardock Central, count me in. From what I understand I don''t think the game checks in with Stardock when you try to play it, it just downloads and plays. That''d be great, though last time I tried to patch Galactic Civilizations it never finished.* Still, of all the online instant download services I''ve used I like Stardock''s the best.

*edit* Oops, I remember now. I was trying to download Altarian Prophecy Beta, which makes sense that it breaks

From what I understand I don''t think the game checks in with Stardock when you try to play it, it just downloads and plays.

Yes. And you can install the game on several machines if you want to.

Where are the Steam haters?

They should be all over this thread in seconds on how much this SUXORS!

You know why I don''t like Steam and I like this? DRM.

Steam is like many of the pre iTMS online music stores. You can only play the games through Steam, you can''t archive them and you can''t burn them to play offline on a computer that''s never been connected to the internet.

Stardock Central, which this is based off of, treats you even better than iTMS. You can archive anything just by copying the folder, you can download even while waiting for your CD to arrive, you can use them on a computer that''s never had internet access. All their games work offline completely without Stardock, and you can keep them after you stop subscribing. It''s all based off serial keys, not encrypting content to keep it away from the people that paid for it. Stardock Central doesn''t treat you like a criminal, it trusts you to handle your data responsibly. The difference to me is just a matter of respect really.

"Pyroman[FO" wrote:

""]The difference to me is just a matter of respect really.

Word.

you can download even while waiting for your CD to arrive, you can use them on a computer that''s never had internet access. All their games work offline completely without Stardock, and you can keep them after you stop subscribing. It''s all based off serial keys, not encrypting content to keep it away from the people that paid for it.

So you''re never going to play an MMORPG... since every single one of them does exactly what you hate..

1. Subscription fees that render the game useless once you stop paying the subscription.
2. Encrypted Content to prevent hacks or client side cheating (in theory)

Am I the only one who thinks it''d be better to just buy these games in a few months when they are bargain bins at 4.99 each? Not that I think I''d probably buy them or like any of them

So you''re never going to play an MMORPG... since every single one of them does exactly what you hate..

1. Subscription fees that render the game useless once you stop paying the subscription.
2. Encrypted Content to prevent hacks or client side cheating (in theory)

The difference between an MMORPG and Steam is that an MMO gives you gameplay that''s impossible without being connected to the internet. Therefore authenticating with an MMO server isn''t superflous power grabbing, because it''s actually necessary to the fundamental concept of the game. The game exists on their servers because it''s too big to be hosted locally, otherwise it wouldn''t be massive.

Also notice how I never mentioned that a subscription was a problem. It was the fact that you lose the ability to play games without Steam was my problem, when Steam is really unecessary to play them.

The second point is untrue, as the only encryption is between yourself and the server, not the client files. The average MMO doesn''t encrypt itself and turtle up when you stop subscribing. Again, this is merely to prevent cheating, not to prevent you from using your own game. MMOs don''t have to do this because you have to login to their server to play, it''s necessary. Which is why Steam and the ilk like Real Arcade do have to encrypt everything, because in reality the subscription adds nothing to the game whatsoever.

The difference between an MMORPG and Steam is that an MMO gives you gameplay that''s impossible without being connected to the internet. Therefore authenticating with an MMO server isn''t superflous power grabbing, because it''s actually necessary to the fundamental concept of the game. The game exists on their servers because it''s too big to be hosted locally, otherwise it wouldn''t be massive.

CS, DoD, TF2 are all online games that are impossible to play without being connected to the internet and you get gameplay from them no? Just because they also deliver content through Steam for their SP games doesnt render that irrelevent.

The second point is untrue, as the only encryption is between yourself and the server, not the client files. The average MMO doesn''t encrypt itself and turtle up when you stop subscribing. Again, this is merely to prevent cheating, not to prevent you from using your own game. MMOs don''t have to do this because you have to login to their server to play, it''s necessary. Which is why Steam and the ilk like Real Arcade do have to encrypt everything, because in reality the subscription adds nothing to the game whatsoever.

Hmm... not sure what you consider encryption then.. since I''m pretty sure that the files that go between you and the MMOG''s servers are indeed encrypted. Naturally there is less encryption involved since essentially they are assured that the game is rendered useless once the subscription fee is removed. But I dont think one can blanket the statement and say there is no encryption involved. If there wasnt client side hacks would be essentially the norm for every single MMOG.

Also in fairness since I''ve missed it completely someone needs to show me on Valve or Steam''s website where it says that the SP games you download via steam at full price are rendered useless if you choose to stop paying the subscription fee.

Just because they also deliver content through Steam for their SP games doesnt render that irrelevent.

I guess the question is, can you play the single player portion without any involvement with Steam once it''s been ""converted"" to it?

Hmm... not sure what you consider encryption then.. since I''m pretty sure that the files that go between you and the MMOG''s servers are indeed encrypted. Naturally there is less encryption involved since essentially they are assured that the game is rendered useless once the subscription fee is removed. But I dont think one can blanket the statement and say there is no encryption involved. If there wasnt client side hacks would be essentially the norm for every single MMOG.

That''s because that''s not what I said at all. I said that the only encryption is the data transferred between your game and the server, the network traffic. Not the game files themselves. Which is exactly what you said. My point was it''s not the same as what Steam does.

CS, DoD, TF2 are all online games that are impossible to play without being connected to the internet and you get gameplay from them no? Just because they also deliver content through Steam for their SP games doesnt render that irrelevent.

How does paying a subscription add to the gaming experience? What added value is Valve giving you for your monthly fee? An MMO allows you to interact with people on a scale that would be impossible without their servers, Valve is giving you access to files they encrypted so they could charge you for access. You''re not getting anything out of the deal, there is nothing inherent in HL or any mod''s gameplay that is dependent on Valve''s intervention to function. Therefore making the game non-functional without Valve''s encryption keys is simply a way of making you ask explicit permission from Steam before you can play. Which is why I appreciate Stardock so much. Stardock goes ""Hey there''s no reason for this encryption stuff, here''s the serial key, do whatever you want and keep your nose clean."" It''s simply a matter of respect for your customer, I like being treated like an adult and not having to phone home to play. With an MMO you are phoning home because that''s where the game is happening, it''s an entirely different matter.

"cewargamer" wrote:

Reading a bit more deeply into the info presented- with an $89 subscription ($50 if you own ""GalCiv"", I believe) you get to own all of the copies of all of the games you ""subscribe"" to, now and forever.

Anybody ever figure out if this discount to $50 actually exists (if you already own GalCiv)?

Has anybody subscribed? I am thinking of making the jump, but I might only purchase The Political Machine.

I didn''t see the discount. I saw a $50 re-subscribe fee if you join...

As well, they hope to line up more games in the next six months.

THe only thing that gives me pause is the ""hope to"" part. Basically, you might get lucky and they might add a game to the roster. Or maybe not. They don''t offer any sort of ""deals we''re working on"" or ""our release schedule"" information. Basically, they seem to be making a selling point of nothing.

On the Steam issue, GameGuru, I really think you''re stretching. Just because people are against the DRM/anti-piracy that is inherent to Steam doesn''t mean we are against Electronic Distribution. I''m all for ED, and this is a good model(minus the aforementioned marketing flaw). You pay $X and you receive a license for all games currently in the stable as well as any added to it over the next Y months. You own the license. You don''t ask permission to play. You don''t need Stardock for anything. You could pay your $X, download all the games and not ever pay another penny, not connect to the internet again. Yay! Someone gets it! Why waste time and money on physical distribution when many people don''t care about the box/manual/actual CD? Gimme the bits and I''m good to go.

For MMOs, you could play without the official server. Many, many people have set up rogue UO shards and there''s a lot of work being done on an ""open"" EQ server. So yes, you can buy the game, drop the subscription after the free trial, and, conceivably, simply play/develop on the open/rogue/reverse engineered servers. No, they''re not full-fledged - yet. But you''re also not paying $10+/month for the chance to slay a dragon. You and your buddies can just cheat-code your level up to planes levels, teleport where you want to go, spawn monster X and have a dragonslayin'' good time.

I stray, but the point is, this is not the same thing as Steam and it''s a stretch to say that because it''s electronic distribution that we should be upset about it as well. I''m pretty sure it was made clear in the Steam thread that ED was not the issue, that the issue was the draconian (IMO) DRM inherent in Steam.

I have TotalGaming.net and it''s basically just a section within the current Stardock application. I logged in last night and it automatically started patching GalCiv and The Political Machine. My pocketbook could be in SERIOUS trouble if the major publishers pulled their heads out of their asses and started offering games this way.

I got it just so I could play Political Machine. It really is a fantastic service.

For MMOs, you could play without the official server. Many, many people have set up rogue UO shards and there''s a lot of work being done on an ""open"" EQ server. So yes, you can buy the game, drop the subscription after the free trial, and, conceivably, simply play/develop on the open/rogue/reverse engineered servers. No, they''re not full-fledged - yet. But you''re also not paying $10+/month for the chance to slay a dragon. You and your buddies can just cheat-code your level up to planes levels, teleport where you want to go, spawn monster X and have a dragonslayin'' good time.

I''m pretty sure these are technically illegal.. no?

"Sanjuro" wrote:

I got it just so I could play Political Machine. It really is a fantastic service.

How is Political Machine?

Yes, tells us. Please, tells us.

/poor attempt at Gollum-speak

Political Machine is wonderful, but time goes by so quickly that it''s almost a coffee break game. I''m pleased with it, though. On my way out, I''ll post some more in-depth impressions later.

I''m pretty sure these are technically illegal.. no?

It''s been a long time since I read a MMO EULA(part of which makes them difficult to enforce in many circumstances), but I''m pretty sure that these are technically legal - the teams are not decompiling or otherwise stealing protected server code. They are reverse-engineering what the server does based on what the client does - packet-sniffing within their own network. No code-theft and I believe no breach of contract either.
I''d have to do a lot more research before declaring any given home-brew, reverse-engineered MMO server either legal or illegal. I certainly wouldn''t make a blanket statement about them, but when I was just coming off of DAoC, I vaguely recall looking into the legality aspect, just to be ""safe"".
(Edit: However, were these rogue server devs to start charging money, I''m relatively sure it would be seen as 100% illegal, at least by US courts. That''s not currently the case, however, as far as I know.)

Sanjuro, I would greatly appreciate a longer reviewish type post about that one. I''m thinking of getting it for the wife for her birthday, but was unimpressed with the GalCiv demo, so I''m mildly cautious about it. Although, at $20 how bad could it be?

Sanjuro, I would greatly appreciate a longer reviewish type post about that one. I''m thinking of getting it for the wife for her birthday, but was unimpressed with the GalCiv demo, so I''m mildly cautious about it. Although, at $20 how bad could it be?

I bought it late last month, its kinda fun. They also released a bonus pack for it that adds a few new features. It mostly improves the way you build your race, but it also adds some cheat commands if you''d like some extra money.

"gotham" wrote:

This looks similar a service provided by Yahoo! as well as one by my personal DSL provider (I''m sure there are more out there) where you ''rent'' the game for 3days to a month and pay accordingly.

I must say though I really like the line about making ''great games, not massive ones''. Some of my favorite games of all time came on 2 1.44mb floppies (Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Wing Commander 1 & 2) and there really hasn''t been too much that has really blown me away since. I am still looking for a copy of SWOTL that I can play on my PC..maybe when I get my XBOX I''ll buy Secret Weapons over Normandy..

Ok, way off topic. Seems kinda neat. I don''t think I would use it though because who buys unheard of games?

All true, but Wing Commander 1&2 were on a TON of floppies, not to mention the speech packs. Gotta love those...

So I just went to look into TotalGaming.Net a bit more, and while details can be tough to figure out, I really liked these two quotes:

"..." said Brad Wardell, President and CEO of Stardock Corporation. "...We've found that people who buy software on-line don't want to have to mess with copy protection or Digital Rights Management or "˜wrappers' or renting schemes or what have you. They want to be able to buy the games and not have to deal with any hassles."
Any game released on TotalGaming.net during the time the user is a subscriber is theirs. Even if they choose not to re-subscribe, they can still re-download the entire game years later.

"Stardock feels that the biggest barrier to entry on electronic distribution is the concern that if the user changes computers or loses their game they won't be able to play it anymore. With TotalGaming.net, that's not a concern. Even if someone chooses not to re-subscribe, they can still re-download the game years later. All you need is your
TotalGaming.net serial #. And if you lose that, no problem, the system can automatically email it to you," said Wardell.

from this news release.

To me, that is electronic distribution done right. Also of note, not mentioned here, it''s $89 for the first year, but only $50 to resub. Seems a bit high if you only want 1 game, and a gamble on whether anything gets added during your subscription that you actually want, but definitely looks to be a good model.

I think I have an old copy of SWOTL that I was thinking of putting up on ebay...must check storage box when I get home...

Go to galciv.com. A link from there will give you the option to purchase a one-year license to the service for $50.00.

Purchased.

One game of Political Machine under my belt. I lost. On the easy setting. I suck.

"Edgar_Newt" wrote:

One game of Political Machine under my belt. I lost. On the easy setting. I suck.

""We do these things not because they are easy, we do them because they are hard.""