Xenoblade - New Monolith RPG for Wii

Something I remembered:

How come the British get better JRPG voice actors than America?

ccesarano wrote:

How come the British get better JRPG voice actors than America?

Because the Brits are inherently better at everything. Must be all that tea.

shoptroll wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

How come the British get better JRPG voice actors than America?

Because the Brits are inherently better at everything. Must be all that tea.

And the rain, gives them time to practice.

I finally started this up last night and played for just under an hour. I left off after the first time that you switch characters.

I'm honestly not sure what I thought of it. I certainly wasn't blown away like a lot of you seem to be. I'm impressed by the technical aspects of the game: the scale is really impressive, and it plays without a hitch, even when zoomed out. There's obviously a lot of content here between the Affinity Chart, the collectibles, the enemies, the skill tress, and all of that. I can easily understand how people are dropping over a hundred hours into this with plenty more content to go.

That said, I'm not sure how much I enjoyed my time with the game, however brief. The combat system seemed frictionless and underwhelming, like I wasn't really doing a whole lot. I spent most of combat waiting for the cooldown timers to run out rather than making interesting tactical or strategic decisions.

Running around Colony 9, I was reminded of Jonathan Blow's complaint that many modern games reward you for doing nothing. I was running around this city, not really doing much of anything at all, and I was collecting loot and experience. I also managed to rack up five or six sidequests just walking from one side of town to the other, but I couldn't have told you what my story objective was, or what would happen when I got there. I wandered around collecting stuff that didn't seem to have any meaning until I gave that up and followed the compass to my destination. It felt aimless.

Another way to put it would be that I felt like everything that was there for me to do was just something to do, not something that was part of a larger, more meaningful whole.

This isn't to say that I hate it or that I'm not going to continue. I'll play some more tonight and see if it strikes me differently or if the various parts start to come together with a bit more cohesion.

(I've also, for the record, never played an MMO or any of the various "single-player MMOs" people talk about like Final Fantasy XII or Kingdoms of Amalur. It could be that this just isn't my kind of game.)

[I will say that if this game were on the 360 and featured characters that looked like they'd wandered in from Dragon Age that this thread would be about 30 pages longer.]

ccesarano wrote:

Something I remembered:

How come the British get better JRPG voice actors than America?

Because this one was localized by Nintendo instead of a smaller company like Atlus or Xseed. (There's no excuse for Square-Enix to have such bad voice actors. None at all.)

ClockworkHouse wrote:

That said, I'm not sure how much I enjoyed my time with the game, however brief. The combat system seemed frictionless and underwhelming, like I wasn't really doing a whole lot. I spent most of combat waiting for the cooldown timers to run out rather than making interesting tactical or strategic decisions.

That'll change once you get a full action bar, I think. Did for me.

Switching to controlling Reyn isn't a bad idea if you want more to do, he's a bit more active earlier.

Blind_Evil wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

That said, I'm not sure how much I enjoyed my time with the game, however brief. The combat system seemed frictionless and underwhelming, like I wasn't really doing a whole lot. I spent most of combat waiting for the cooldown timers to run out rather than making interesting tactical or strategic decisions.

That'll change once you get a full action bar, I think. Did for me.

Switching to controlling Reyn isn't a bad idea if you want more to do, he's a bit more active earlier.

Yeah once you have 8 abilities, and in some cases a 2nd bar, with multiple other abilites, and a combo system... well, yeah, my battles are really busy now.

Normally I'd say an hour is all you need to know about a game, but this is also a modern JRPG so I'm not really sure how much time to give it. I'm not a fan of it having a lot of those MMO style elements either. I asked my brother if MMOs were big in Japan right now (he's the closest thing to a genuine expert that I know, especially since he got to visit a lot while he lived in South Korea), and he said they were. So maybe that's part of it.

I found it strange that I would accept a quest, and then instantly it would be completed. Just by collecting items around the environment I got everything I needed to complete some of these. Hell, I found some dude's lost wedding ring before I even found him. The only quests that aren't completed, really, are the ones requiring me to fight specific monsters. I tried to tackle one and...decided it would be best kept for later.

So it's strange, but part of me shrugs and just figures it'll make collecting experience easier while simultaneously giving me little reason to go out of my way to do side quests. I should be able to continue the main story with little reason to try.

As for the combat, well, I feel it would be a lot more interesting if a group of foes in a given area would get involved at once. Often I'd kill one Rabbit or Bat or whatnot and then try to turn and target another, but the fight ended and my treasure dropped. It felt like I could shave time off the gameplay if I could more easily target multiples. The best way to manage that was to use an attack before entering combat that struck multiple guys at once.

I do feel like the actual combat system will become more interesting in a bit. I'm two hours in, so I already passed Clocky and am at what might be the first actual dungeon of the game. Which, again, leads me to the idea that you can't judge a JRPG based on the first hour or so. I basically just reached the first level.

I was curious, though. Is there a way to switch between characters during combat? I feel like that would be the best way to manage concepts like aggro and the various special abilities.

ccesarano wrote:

I found it strange that I would accept a quest, and then instantly it would be completed. Just by collecting items around the environment I got everything I needed to complete some of these. Hell, I found some dude's lost wedding ring before I even found him. The only quests that aren't completed, really, are the ones requiring me to fight specific monsters. I tried to tackle one and...decided it would be best kept for later.

So it's strange, but part of me shrugs and just figures it'll make collecting experience easier while simultaneously giving me little reason to go out of my way to do side quests. I should be able to continue the main story with little reason to try.

What you find strange, I find awesome. Not having to hunt down NPCs to turn stuff in would be great in so many other games.

As for the combat, well, I feel it would be a lot more interesting if a group of foes in a given area would get involved at once.

That happens all the time. Flamiis link socially, mechons visually, so those guys are prone to adding. You mostly run across passive monsters for the first couple hours.

I was curious, though. Is there a way to switch between characters during combat? I feel like that would be the best way to manage concepts like aggro and the various special abilities.

No, and that's my one complaint so far. Other party members have done a pretty good job of handling their duties, though.

I also love that quests complete automatically once you've found the requested widgets. Running back to an NPC in town is boring and adds nothing to a game.

I haven't played much yet, I just switched from Shulk to a female character in the first town. So far, it's... nice. I enjoy it but it hasn't totally "grabbed" me yet. I am thinking it will become more exciting with more party members and combat options, and when skill trees and crafting open up -- neither are menu options for me yet.

Demyx wrote:

I also love that quests complete automatically once you've found the requested widgets. Running back to an NPC in town is boring and adds nothing to a game.

I think there's a difference between fulfilling a quest automatically once you've met its requirements and, as ccesarano's saying, fulfilling the quest as soon as it's given to you because you already accidentally fulfilled the requirements. That's a bit odd.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I also love that quests complete automatically once you've found the requested widgets. Running back to an NPC in town is boring and adds nothing to a game.

I think there's a difference between fulfilling a quest automatically once you've met its requirements and, as ccesarano's saying, fulfilling the quest as soon as it's given to you because you already accidentally fulfilled the requirements. That's a bit odd.

The exact same thing happened to me and I didn't find it odd. I found a wedding ring and it wasn't equipment for me, so I was like "obviously this is to fulfill a quest". And then I found the dude and gave him back his ring.

How would you prevent that, not have the ring show up until you have the quest? Then I'd have to go poke around in all the side streets I've already poked around.

Demyx wrote:

The exact same thing happened to me and I didn't find it odd.

Maybe you're just used to it because KoL does this as well in some spots?

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Demyx wrote:

I also love that quests complete automatically once you've found the requested widgets. Running back to an NPC in town is boring and adds nothing to a game.

I think there's a difference between fulfilling a quest automatically once you've met its requirements and, as ccessarano's saying, fulfilling the quest as soon as it's given to you because you already accidentally fulfilled the requirements. That's a bit odd.

I'm perfectly cool with that because there are so many quests.

I don't like that I'm at such a high level that nothing is a challenge and almost nothing attacks me. Fast travel between different maps is annoying unless there's something I'm missing.

I find combat really engaging. Even on weak enemies I'm taking the time to back-stab and do side attacks while trying reduce aggro.

shoptroll wrote:
Demyx wrote:

The exact same thing happened to me and I didn't find it odd.

Maybe you're just used to it because KoL does this as well in some spots?

And the other MMO I play (Glitch) does too!

ccesarano wrote:

Normally I'd say an hour is all you need to know about a game, but this is also a modern JRPG so I'm not really sure how much time to give it.

Personally, I usually give long games about 5 hours to grab me. I do stop earlier sometimes if I'm having negative fun though.

Demyx wrote:

The exact same thing happened to me and I didn't find it odd.

If you look at the way it's handled in KoL or in Dragon Quest IX, where this kind of thing also happens, there's some sort of dialog that calls attention to it. "Oh, you already have 10 knick knacks? Great!" In Xenoblade, you get the quest, close the accept dialog box and then, voila!, profit. It's not game-breaking or anything, but it's a bit dissonant.

Garden Ninja wrote:

Personally, I usually give long games about 5 hours to grab me. I do stop earlier sometimes if I'm having negative fun though.

I give them 5-8 hours, so at the rate I'm going, I should have an opinion on Xenoblade sometime next month.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Demyx wrote:

The exact same thing happened to me and I didn't find it odd.

If you look at the way it's handled in KoL or in Dragon Quest IX, where this kind of thing also happens, there's some sort of dialog that calls attention to it. "Oh, you already have 10 knick knacks? Great!" In Xenoblade, you get the quest, close the accept dialog box and then, voila!, profit. It's not game-breaking or anything, but it's a bit dissonant.

This has been discussed to death but side quests in general can be pretty dissonant. I have to save the world right now but I'm going to stop to fetch 10 knick knacks. Ok. So with that in mind I prefer when the game is able to make them streamlined. If you can't make it gel 100% with the story might as well make it the best gameplay you can.

SixteenBlue wrote:

This has been discussed to death but side quests in general can be pretty dissonant. I have to save the world right now but I'm going to stop to fetch 10 knick knacks. Ok. So with that in mind I prefer when the game is able to make them streamlined. If you can't make it gel 100% with the story might as well make it the best gameplay you can.

That's fair. I would have preferred that the designers toss a bit of effort at it, though, like the aforementioned line of dialog, but that's just me.

(And yes, side quests are hugely dissonant. So why make them worse? I dunno, just a pet peeve of mine.)

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I give them 5-8 hours, so at the rate I'm going, I should have an opinion on Xenoblade sometime next month.

At the rate I'm going you'll have an opinion formed before me

I think I'm about 4-8 hours? Saint's Row The Third didn't immediately grab me until I was through the bulk of the tutorial missions.

Combat in this game is kinda weird. Not used to having everything auto-attack and circle-strafing as an RPG combat mechanic.

Well that's why it's suggested that you run around a town, in both day and night, and talk to every named person with a ! before you run out fighting and exploring. Then you will get all of the "kill x monsters", "collect x widgets from monsters, and "collect x widget from the environment" quests all completed in one pass of exploration/fighting.

Or you can explore and collect, and farm items from monster fights, and then go to town to get quests. In which case, you'll have finished 2/3 of the quests you pick up, but then you'd have to do another pass for just the "kill x monsters" quests. Which would really make you over-leveled for the main story.

General rule I'm following is not to kill something unless I have a quest for it, or it's a unique monster. Those uniques drop coins that you use to set your skills. Very useful to have, as well as the nice weapon/armor drops they have. And if you do later get a quests to kill the unique thing, they do seem to respawn.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:

This has been discussed to death but side quests in general can be pretty dissonant. I have to save the world right now but I'm going to stop to fetch 10 knick knacks. Ok. So with that in mind I prefer when the game is able to make them streamlined. If you can't make it gel 100% with the story might as well make it the best gameplay you can.

That's fair. I would have preferred that the designers toss a bit of effort at it, though, like the aforementioned line of dialog, but that's just me.

(And yes, side quests are hugely dissonant. So why make them worse? I dunno, just a pet peeve of mine.)

I think in this game it's just a way of streamlining them to be completely optional. Even the affinity-related quests don't do a whole lot story-wise. They do have you return to the quest giver and the quests are slightly more involved.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

If you look at the way it's handled in KoL or in Dragon Quest IX, where this kind of thing also happens, there's some sort of dialog that calls attention to it. "Oh, you already have 10 knick knacks? Great!" In Xenoblade, you get the quest, close the accept dialog box and then, voila!, profit. It's not game-breaking or anything, but it's a bit dissonant.

That right there is basically my thought on the matter. It pulls me a bit out of the game world.

Note that, again, I don't mind things this way. It was just startling is all. It feels like experience ends up appearing all over the place just because you're walking around, which makes it feel a lot less like a reward.

Vector wrote:

Fast travel between different maps is annoying unless there's something I'm missing.

Are you using - for "quick map" or are you using the map icon in the menu? Because in the menu, you can select any area, and go to any landmark immediately.

But some people have mistaken the quick map for the map... and warped to a location... then walked to the next zone... then warped again and.. walked to a new zone and...

I'm not sure why the quests automatically completing are such a big deal to some. It's not that uncommon; if you happen to have 10 bear skins in Skyrim, you can just talk to the quest giver twice in a row and complete. All this does is remove the second step, and eliminate a lot of backtracking. It's far better than being told to defeat Flurgkeheim the Untouchable again, despite the fact that you slaughtered it 12 hours previously and have been carrying his testes in your backpack as proof ever since.

I like the fact that you can stumble upon an item before you get the quest. It's more realistic than items that don't spawn until the magical conversation took place. Where was that ring between being lost and your character speaking to the loser? What metaphysical wrinkle was it occupying?

Stele wrote:
Vector wrote:

Fast travel between different maps is annoying unless there's something I'm missing.

Are you using - for "quick map" or are you using the map icon in the menu? Because in the menu, you can select any area, and go to any landmark immediately.

But some people have mistaken the quick map for the map... and warped to a location... then walked to the next zone... then warped again and.. walked to a new zone and... :oops:

That is exactly what I've been doing...why...why is there a difference between a the quick map and the map? That makes no sense.

Oddly enough, it still only took me a few seconds to get from Bionis' Knee to Colony 9.

spider_j wrote:

I like the fact that you can stumble upon an item before you get the quest. It's more realistic than items that don't spawn until the magical conversation took place. Where was that ring between being lost and your character speaking to the loser? What metaphysical wrinkle was it occupying?

This drives me nuts in Persona 3. Especially because you can only accept 3 quests at a time so when items don't exist until you accept them it's very frustrating.

ccesarano wrote:

It feels like experience ends up appearing all over the place just because you're walking around, which makes it feel a lot less like a reward.

Yeah, like I said earlier:

Running around Colony 9, I was reminded of Jonathan Blow's complaint that many modern games reward you for doing nothing. I was running around this city, not really doing much of anything at all, and I was collecting loot and experience.

I felt like I was getting rewarded just for showing up which isn't very rewarding at all.

Something I can't believe I didn't notice until now: on the left side of each quest's description it tells you the closest fast-travel point to the quest's location. Super helpful for the monster killing/collection quests.

MadcapLaugher wrote:

Something I can't believe I didn't notice until now: on the left side of each quest's description it tells you the closest fast-travel point to the quest's location. Super helpful for the monster killing/collection quests.

Damn. I was having a lot of trouble finding flaamiis or whatever they are... now I need to go check that.