Street Fighter x Tekken x Street Fighter Catch All.

Nobody's getting upset. I just don't understand why a simple statement like someone not liking something needs to be qualified... I didn't say anybody that likes it is dumb, or call Capcom idiots, I just said I really don't like it.

If there isn't a way to play sans gems this one won't last long for me at all.

It doesn't need to be qualified, I was just curious as to why. "I simply don't like it" is the answer I was looking for.

Tournaments are disallowing gems, I don't see any problem with disallowing them for our regular nights. It's easy enough to just run an empty layout.

Sure, but I'm saying I can't play outside of GWJ without gems can I? There's no way to just hop on Live and play and not have people use them. Or at least not that I can see.

No, there isn't. Seems like there should at least be an option if you create your own lobby, that's a missed opportunity.

Ha! There are some great references in there. Kuma as R Mika made me lol, and Xiaoyu as Alpha Chun-li is awesome too.

I'm going to end up buying this, aren't I.....

Also I desperately want just one fighting game to finally figure out that you don't need to send me to the character select screen when I lose after playing singleplayer. Make it a prompt. Ask me. Don't just automatically boot me to the select screen again.

It's probably never going to change given that they all still do this for whatever ungodly reason, but I have to keep wishing for it to change.

*Also: have yet to go a round with Ogre yet that didn't end in a timeout. Way to design yet another fighting game endboss that isn't in any way more technical, but entirely relies on just giving him more HP.

Someday fighting game developers. Someday just maybe you'll figure out a way to end a story/arcade mode without a dumbly designed endboss.

Thin_J wrote:

Also I desperately want just one fighting game to finally figure out that you don't need to send me to the character select screen when I lose after playing singleplayer. Make it a prompt. Ask me. Don't just automatically boot me to the select screen again.

Oh man, tell me about it. There's rematch in online battles, why not just rematch in arcade mode?

This game is kind of soul crushing after how relatively intuitive SF4 tends to be

Rez, I can set all of the characters up to have empty gem loadouts? IS THIS TRUE? I must have missed that. I would LOVE to do that b/c when my friends come over for some couch fight time I find that trying to explain the gem system is a pain -- and it's an even bigger pain if someone decides they want to load out a character themselves. Since we're just typically brawling and learning for a short span each time we get together I'd love for us to be able to focus strictly on characters, moves and general strategies instead of ticky-tackying around with boosts and assists.

Yeah, there's no requirement that a gem loadout actually have gems in it. Just customize one, remove all the gems, and exit. Bam, done, no more gems. It'll be even easier when the tournament patch lands and you can leave your custom loadouts alone, and just select an empty one via the ID selector.

Thin_J wrote:

This game is kind of soul crushing after how relatively intuitive SF4 tends to be :(

Gems aside, what is giving you the most trouble? It certainly isn't the same as SF4, but a lot of the principles apply, so I'm sure we can help you get a better grasp on it.

ahrezmendi wrote:

Yeah, there's no requirement that a gem loadout actually have gems in it. Just customize one, remove all the gems, and exit. Bam, done, no more gems. It'll be even easier when the tournament patch lands and you can leave your custom loadouts alone, and just select an empty one via the ID selector.

::air guitar:: Thanks

I rented the game last night and got in one match of arcade before playing with everyone. I was unusre of what was going on most of the time. I can't speak for thin_j but I can say that a lot of the time I was unsure as to why I got hit, why people were glowing, what a lot of the terms meant. I think the most frustrating thing was getting hit when I was blocking. I believe part of that could be that there are a lot more overheads in TxSF than SF4.

I read through the guide on SRK and they don't do a good job of explaining a lot of the terms and also do a poor job of having a legend with the move lists. It has helped some, though.

One big difference between this and SF4 is that there is so much more going on here. With all the cancels, supers, cross counters, gems, different combo styles for Tekken and SF, and the two characters it can be a bit daunting. You didn't have to use Focus attacks, EX, Super, or Ultras in SF4 to succeed but here you have to get tagging down or you'll definitely lose. Tagging in/out is a game unto itself. You have to tag much more often in this game than others. If you have a light yellow bar and can tag safely I think you should do it. Tagging allows you to build your life bar back up (to a point) and was one of the most important elements of Tekken Tag Tournament.

I believe it is also more difficult to start out when you have to learn two characters. It was a lot easier for me when we went to teams and I could focus on Julia and didn't have to worry about another character.

Thin, if you are looking for someone similar to Blanka I don't think there's one there. No one is like Blanka except for Blanka. Bison is probably the closest in the game right now but that's simply because his inputs are similar. I'm more of a Tekken than SF player so I'm going to try getting better with Julia and another Tekken character. I may go with Bison though, as his stuff may be easier to learn since a lot of SF stuff should transfer somewhat easily and I was a decent Bison player when I was playing. While I was able to get to be a solid player with Bison, Guile, and Gouken in SF4 I was never really good with them. I was pretty good with Blanka.

Does Julia play like she does in Tekken? I saw you pulling off some combos which immediately revived memories of Tekken 3 for me, so she looks like she's intact, but what matters is how she plays.

I need to put in some serious time against Bison, last night just reminded me of how big my mental barrier against him is. I gotta figure out how to punish him!

Thin_J wrote:

This game is kind of soul crushing after how relatively intuitive SF4 tends to be :(

Just want to throw out there that I find SF4 to be the confusing one, and have had a much easier time getting into this. I think what it comes down to is that fighting games are beasts to get into in general. I've found that SFxT has a gentler learning curve, personally. But that's probably because I don't want to devote the mental energy to learning how to properly employ focus attacks and their myriad uses. I also am weird and really hate double joystick motions.

As for gems, my advice is to simply ignore them for now. Set them up for your characters, but don't even think about them beyond that. Maybe be aware when your opponent has Attack (red) or Defend (yellow) gems on, but other than that don't worry about it.

Happy to answer questions, define terms, or just give a general system rundown if people are interested.

(Double post)

SF4 is much simpler, IMO. You don't have to use focus attacks. SFxT has focus like attacks, too (at least the seem like it to me). The attacks you have that you can hold the button down for seem like they have similar properties to the attack part of focus attacks.

EvilHomer3k wrote:

SF4 is much simpler, IMO. You don't have to use focus attacks. SFxT has focus like attacks, too (at least the seem like it to me). The attacks you have that you can hold the button down for seem like they have similar properties to the attack part of focus attacks.

They appeared this way to me too at first, but when I started actually playing with them in training they're an entirely different beast. From watching a ton, and playing a ton, of SF4, the primary uses of focus attacks were to absorb attacks and to cancel moves for extended combos. Charge cancels in SFxT can do neither of these things. Even though you can cancel them into a dash, you're still bound by what moves can and cannot be special cancelled, so it doesn't allow for the kind of cancels that focus attacks did. These are also optional in the same way focus attacks were in SF4.

I think your point about the tagging is the most salient one. It really is critical to the game, and if you don't have experience with another tag fighter (MvC, TTT, DoA, etc.) then it definitely will be overwhelming. I agree that SF4 is a lot simpler to keep track of, particularly if you're just starting, simply for the lack of tagging. This is a strong argument for making the 2v2 mode the default for our gatherings, since as you pointed out it helps eliminate tagging as a source of concern for people still learning their characters.

Personally, I love the tag feature, it's what really makes this game for me. The amount of creative freedom you have in terms of team selection, and combo creation between different characters is huge, and it all stems from tagging.

On a video note, Maximillian is doing a week of SFxT, starting today:

ahrezmendi wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:

SF4 is much simpler, IMO. You don't have to use focus attacks. SFxT has focus like attacks, too (at least the seem like it to me). The attacks you have that you can hold the button down for seem like they have similar properties to the attack part of focus attacks.

They appeared this way to me too at first, but when I started actually playing with them in training they're an entirely different beast. From watching a ton, and playing a ton, of SF4, the primary uses of focus attacks were to absorb attacks and to cancel moves for extended combos. Charge cancels in SFxT can do neither of these things. Even though you can cancel them into a dash, you're still bound by what moves can and cannot be special cancelled, so it doesn't allow for the kind of cancels that focus attacks did. These are also optional in the same way focus attacks were in SF4.

I think your point about the tagging is the most salient one. It really is critical to the game, and if you don't have experience with another tag fighter (MvC, TTT, DoA, etc.) then it definitely will be overwhelming. I agree that SF4 is a lot simpler to keep track of, particularly if you're just starting, simply for the lack of tagging. This is a strong argument for making the 2v2 mode the default for our gatherings, since as you pointed out it helps eliminate tagging as a source of concern for people still learning their characters.

Personally, I love the tag feature, it's what really makes this game for me. The amount of creative freedom you have in terms of team selection, and combo creation between different characters is huge, and it all stems from tagging.

On a video note, Maximillian is doing a week of SFxT, starting today:

For your first night with it Homer you did pretty well. I feel while there's more mechanics in SFXT it is ultimately a more accessible game. Not good with links? Stick to the chain combos and use the auto-combos until you can spend some time in training mode. Every character can do an easy tag in combo of c.mk/c.mp cancelled into a special. My biggest issue so far is that I still stress out during multiplayer, causing me to drop links I know I can get 99% of the time offline.

I think the 2v2 is really what sets this apart, and will hopefully give this game some legs.

Stylez wrote:

I think the 2v2 is really what sets this apart, and will hopefully give this game some legs.

I couldn't agree more. Other games have tried doing this to limited success, but since the tagging is core to this game it's a natural extension and completely unique in the current fighting game scene. It's also clear that Capcom knew this was a good feature, since you can search for partners out on XBL or easily invite your friends. It sucks that you can't play online with a couch partner on 360, but it's still a fantastic feature. I always wished that Tekken Tag Tournament had given players this option, and I hope that TTT 2 Unlimited does this as well.

I've been pondering what I need to work on from last nights games, and I think I have it - anti-airs. Juri has one of the best AA movesets in the game (c.FP jump cancel to d.FP), and I didn't use it once. It's perfect anti-Bison, and overall a really powerful tool, and I really need to integrate it into my game.

I don't think explaining anything is going to fix whatever's wrong with me in this game. I'm just not "getting" something, and I don't know what it is. I can't cause any damage, I can't ever seem to block anything even in situations that are otherwise identical to SF4, and on from there. People told me to hit a direction or whatever last night to roll out of a corner sometimes, and I never even managed to do that, I'd get into a corner and just get wailed on until I was dead.

I just know that in SF4 I at least sort of understand how to do some things and can make those things happen occasionally. Meanwhile in SFxT I can't even do the most basic of things. Like ever. I pretty much never even cause any damage unless the other person has a bad round and screws up a lot.

Mistakes in this game are definitely amplified more than they are in SF4, particularly in our group. I know that I certainly can dish out higher damage combos in this than I can in SF4, so if I catch someone in a mistake they're going to hurt more for it. That said, having played you in both SF4 and this game, I think your mistakes were the same in both, and you'll rectify them the same way and in the same time.

Things like safely attacking, proper blocking, and dealing with corner pressure just come with number of games played. Everyone was getting obliterated by that Bison player, so I wouldn't concern yourself with those matches overly much. I can also tell you, having played a lot of Bison players in SF4, that what you saw there is equally effective and possible in SF4. That was just solid Bison pressure, and he's particularly nasty if he gets you in the corner.

The rolling that somebody mentioned is actually an incredibly good way to deal with corner pressure, and it's one you don't have in SF4. The way you do it is hold forward while your character is on the ground (forward meaning forward as if your character were doing a sit-up). Keep in mind that you cannot do a quick rise roll though, so if you do a quick rise (tap down as you land) then you're just going to do that.

Honestly, I think the best thing to do is to hold a tutorial session for basic concepts, it really helps to see these things in action and get a chance to apply them in a more controlled environment. This will apply to SF4, SFxT, SF3, and SF2. I'll put up details in the fight night thread.

I'll be online awhile, if you want to play some matches send me a msg on xbl.

Played through the arcade mode. Learned alot about using tagging.

Thin_J wrote:

I don't think explaining anything is going to fix whatever's wrong with me in this game. I'm just not "getting" something, and I don't know what it is. I can't cause any damage, I can't ever seem to block anything even in situations that are otherwise identical to SF4, and on from there. People told me to hit a direction or whatever last night to roll out of a corner sometimes, and I never even managed to do that, I'd get into a corner and just get wailed on until I was dead.

I always feel this way when I pick up a fighting game and go online. Ahrezmendi's right when he says to not be discouraged by those Bison matches (and sorry to bring such a beast to our casual fighting game day). timemachineGO/Brian is ridiculous with that Bison, and I often wish he'd learn new characters versus relying on SFIV knowledge. He's really internalized what's safe/unsafe, which means his Bison is rarely exposed to punishment. On day 1 we played some sets and it was nothing but near perfects for him all night.

After that first night, however, he gave me two really good pieces of advice. First, he said, your basic flowchart for the game should be:

1. Play footsies until you see a safe way to get in close.
2. Connect with a block string (series of moves that you can't interrupt with normals, the last move of which is unpunishable­--most combos start with block strings), which will leave you safe when it's over.
3A. If you hit, combo and keep the pressure on when they wake-up.
3B. If they block, back off and return to footsies.

Second, he said that blocking is incredibly powerful in this game. It's tough to land throws once your opponent has blocked even one attack, since the throw range is so short. This means that blocking is incredibly safe (watch for high-low mix-ups, though!). The caveat here is that many characters, particularly Tekken characters, have quick ground overheads. Against these characters, once a block string starts it's often best to block standing, though they usually have a high-low mix-up in there.

As for roll, it's a key mechanic to learn in this game. When you get knocked down you can either leave your joystick neutral and wake-up where you landed, SFIV style. Or you can hold forward and your character will roll about 3 character widths forward. This actually means that it's easier to keep the pressure on in SFIV, and easier to get out of tricky situations in SFxT. But this is counteracted by the much longer combos in this game, resulting in fewer salient moments.

Yeah, I was just about ready to quit after Brian ran the table and refused to take a break. But after that he did back off and tried to play as effective competition versus the skill of whoever he was up against instead of just crushing everyone.

casktapper wrote:

Yeah, I was just about ready to quit after Brian ran the table and refused to take a break. But after that he did back off and tried to play as effective competition versus the skill of whoever he was up against instead of just crushing everyone.

Yeah that was pissy, but I think he was just playin'. I had told him it was casual beforehand, I think he's used to more frontage in fighting game groups. He is a really awesome teacher, though, and is always willing to give great (albeit technical) advice. Whatever the case, having tough skin and dealing with salt is a skill to learn (took me a while).

7inchsplit wrote:
casktapper wrote:

Yeah, I was just about ready to quit after Brian ran the table and refused to take a break. But after that he did back off and tried to play as effective competition versus the skill of whoever he was up against instead of just crushing everyone.

Yeah that was pissy, but I think he was just playin'. I had told him it was casual beforehand, I think he's used to more frontage in fighting game groups. He is a really awesome teacher, though, and is always willing to give great (albeit technical) advice. Whatever the case, having tough skin and dealing with salt is a skill to learn (took me a while).

Believe me I understand that. My "teachers" so to speak are 5000PP SF4 players and my usual partner is sitting at close to 4000bp in SFxT. As far as I've come in this game the gap from 0 to my skill level is much smaller than the gap from here to 4000bp.

It didn't take long for you guys to figure out the trick to fighting Raven is get him in a corner and keep the pressure on. Being able to mid air those shurikens is great if I'm jumping away, but he has very little that he can throw out safely in a corner. Even his teleport becomes useless because of the slow startup.

I played some yesterday and I am understanding the game a bit more. I've been playing Julia/Zangief with some success (though not much). Heiachi's cross-up is very odd. He seems to be crossing up despite being 75% on the front and only 25 on the back. Took me a while to get used to that.

I haven't touched the gems. No idea what any of them do.

What are magic combos? I've seen those referenced on SRK.

Also, what are CADC? I assume they are cancels but are they tag cancels?

Characters seem to have a combos that automatically switch. Unfortunately, often Zangief's final hit misses.

I've been able to get some tag combos in with Julia. The only thing I seem to be able to do with Zangief is a single kick/punch/spinning hammer fists.

CADC is referring to the charge attack dash cancels. Each character has one move they can charge, first up to EX level, then finally into a meterless Super. At any point you can dash out of that charge. Certain characters make heavy use of this in their combos, notably Raven.

I haven't seen anybody reference Magic Combos before. It could be the canned combos each character has, which cost 1 meter to activate and do some preset combo (some of which are the combos you see in Trials). Those are set up beforehand like gems, and you activate them with LP + FK or LK + FP. They could also be referencing the basic chain every character can do, which is similar to the Magic Series from MvC 3. That is next...

The free tag chain combo is universally L -> M -> F -> F (punches or kicks, and you can mix and match them). You can do any lower level attack chained into a higher one, so you could also do LP -> FP -> FP, and the last hit will be a launcher and tag. The trick is knowing how your launcher attack will hit, as you've noted you can very easily make it whiff just by doing the wrong previous move in the chain. For example, most characters will miss their launcher if you do c.FK -> FK, the sweep knocks them out of the launcher. If you want to make use of this, just make sure your last F attack in the chain is standing, and the launcher should connect.

ahrezmendi wrote:

CADC is referring to the charge attack dash cancels. Each character has one move they can charge, first up to EX level, then finally into a meterless Super. At any point you can dash out of that charge. Certain characters make heavy use of this in their combos, notably Raven.

Getting so close to nailing these regularly in-match as Raven. It definitely feels like my hands are just magically doing one f'ed up thing, like they go blurry and it just happens. Can't wait to be able to nail 4 HPs in a row on switch cancel.

Oh, and that Ken Masters video is amazing!

Are the canned combos useful? With the ease of the (mashable) tag combos I don't see using the canned ones that much. Julia's don't seem to work very well for tagging in either. I don't remember trying Zangief's.

I absolutely hate the audio fading in/out online. That is something that should have been fixed within a week. I haven't seen any other game (fighting or other) that has an issue like this.