NFL 2011-2012 Off-Season Pre-Draft Catch-All

*Legion* wrote:

Even though he's at the devalued position of running back, some think he's the best talent in the entire draft.

The way I heard it put on ESPN, is that yes, you don't pick a RB in the top 10 ... unless ... he's an uber-talent, and McShay, Kiper, et al agreed that he is. I won't even name the players they compare his talent level to, for fear of starting a huge forest fire in this thread, but suffice it to say, they believe he's a great one.

Kiper has him ranked #3 behind Luck & RG3. I hope he does go to Tampa, then I can drive over and see him play.

karmajay wrote:

Yikes Richardson's tweets today are definitely looking like he will be a buc especially since he was seen at lunch thus week with the new coach.

I guess they're pretty certain Cleveland won't take him then. The Browns may take Tannehill, Blackmon, or Claiborne, or trade that #4 pick, it could be very valuable.

I think Tannehill will be way overdrafted, so Cleveland could score some decent loot for that #4 pick.

A quick look at last year's All-Pro first and second teams:

RB:
MJD (2nd round), LeSean McCoy (2nd round), Ray Rice (2nd round), Arian Foster (undrafted)

CB:
Darrelle Revis (1st round), Charles Woodson (1st round), Jonathan Joseph (1st round), Carlos Rogers (1st round)

Hey, look at that.

All good reasons why Claiborne get picked before the Bucs come up at #5.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

A quick look at last year's All-Pro first and second teams:

RB:
MJD (2nd round), LeSean McCoy (2nd round), Ray Rice (2nd round), Arian Foster (undrafted)

CB:
Darrelle Revis (1st round), Charles Woodson (1st round), Jonathan Joseph (1st round), Carlos Rogers (1st round)

Hey, look at that.

Jeff-66 wrote:

The way I heard it put on ESPN, is that yes, you don't pick a RB in the top 10 ... unless ... he's an uber-talent, and McShay, Kiper, et al agreed that he is

Hey look at that

*Legion* wrote:

All good reasons why Claiborne get picked before the Bucs come up at #5. :)

The only team that will take him is Cleveland, (it's my understanding that 1, 2, 3 are carved in stone), and I think that if Cleveland doesn't trade their pick, they'll take Justin Blackmon.

I've seen the Browns take him at #4 in a mock or two.

Of course the rest of the mock drafts have the Bucs taking him at #5.

Frankly, I don't care how talented he is, AP hasn't single handily gotten the Vikings to a championship.

I can't take this faux outrage and scape-goating of Williams and the entire NO Franchise. News flash.. defensive players on all levels of football and especially in the pro-ranks are supposed to hit the crap out of the offensive players.. as hard as they possibly can on every play.. you are supposed to hit them so hard that you take them out of the game both physically and mentally. It's beyond frustrating to me that this is now somehow unheard of behavior. Oh and you are PAYING these same NFL players via their salary to beat the crap out of the offensive player.

Buddy Ryan is rolling his eyes right about now... since he basically would have never even been allowed into this new "NFL"

/yuck

Jeff-66 wrote:

and I think that if Cleveland doesn't trade their pick, they'll take Justin Blackmon.

I don't think any team really likes Justin Blackmon as much as everyone outside the league does.

Blackmon is good, but he's no A.J. Green. I don't expect him to be a top 5 pick.

No, don't you understand? The Saints are the only ones in the league who would ever put some hot sauce on a tackle. You know, because they're from New Orleans.

garion333 wrote:

I've seen the Browns take him at #4 in a mock or two.

Of course the rest of the mock drafts have the Bucs taking him at #5.

Frankly, I don't care how talented he is, AP hasn't single handily gotten the Vikings to a championship.

This. The NFL today is about passing, and stopping the other team from passing. Running is a nice bonus. If you're on a team with a bad secondary, you're going to get behind so far that rushing becomes irrelevant; you're passing frantically to catch up (see 2011). You have to pass and stop the pass. That's what matters. Backs just aren't worth it anymore.

The problem with Cleveland taking Claiborne is they drafted Haden a few years ago, and they have so many other needs.

garion333 wrote:

I've seen the Browns take him at #4 in a mock or two.

Of course the rest of the mock drafts have the Bucs taking him at #5.

Frankly, I don't care how talented he is, AP hasn't single handily gotten the Vikings to a championship.

I actually agree 100%. Despite being a huge Alabama fan, and being very proud of Richardson, I doubt I'd take him that high in the NFL. I'd be awfully tempted to go with Claiborne. As MMD points out, it's a passing league. Running the ball is an afterthought these days. (I miss real football!)

*Legion* wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:

and I think that if Cleveland doesn't trade their pick, they'll take Justin Blackmon.

I don't think any team really likes Justin Blackmon as much as everyone outside the league does.

Blackmon is good, but he's no A.J. Green. I don't expect him to be a top 5 pick.

The Rams will be very happy if you're right. I think they are the one team that really wanted him.

Jeff-66 wrote:

The Rams will be very happy if you're right. I think they are the one team that really wanted him.

Jacksonville would love for him to slide to #7 as well, provided they can't make a move down. But with the Rams at #6, I don't really see that happening unless the Rams trade down and #6 becomes the Tannehill pick.

TheGameguru wrote:

I can't take this faux outrage and scape-goating of Williams and the entire NO Franchise. News flash.. defensive players on all levels of football and especially in the pro-ranks are supposed to hit the crap out of the offensive players.. as hard as they possibly can on every play.. you are supposed to hit them so hard that you take them out of the game both physically and mentally. It's beyond frustrating to me that this is now somehow unheard of behavior. Oh and you are PAYING these same NFL players via their salary to beat the crap out of the offensive player.

Buddy Ryan is rolling his eyes right about now... since he basically would have never even been allowed into this new "NFL"

/yuck

You may not like who's quoted in this, but I'm pretty sure you'll agree with what he's saying: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...

*Legion* wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:

The Rams will be very happy if you're right. I think they are the one team that really wanted him.

Jacksonville would love for him to slide to #7 as well, provided they can't make a move down. But with the Rams at #6, I don't really see that happening unless the Rams trade down and #6 becomes the Tannehill pick.

The Rams struck gold this year with that trade to the 'Skins. They have so many options now, and if Blackmon survives to #6, they basically got all those first rounders for free.

I can't take this faux outrage and scape-goating of Williams and the entire NO Franchise. News flash.. defensive players on all levels of football and especially in the pro-ranks are supposed to hit the crap out of the offensive players.. as hard as they possibly can on every play.

Actually, the part that bothered me about the audio was that he was encouraging them to go after players' heads on the pile, i.e., after the play. It's a violent sport, no doubt, but talking about trying to injure a guy – especially dealing with his head – when the player may very well be defenseless is cruel at best.

Look, this is a different era. With the NFL facing lawsuits over concussions and trying like heck to do a better job with what could be life-altering head injuries, the sort of thinking and encouragement on display here *should* be taken out of the game.

Carl Banks argues that the 'kill the head' bit is a metaphor. After listening to that audio, I don't think it was meant as a metaphor at all. (On a side note, when did Banks learn the word metaphor?)

When I listened to the audio I thought he was being metaphorical about kill the head on Gore. Maybe I should listen again.

Can't say for sure that he's talking about blows to the head in the pile. Sounds to me like psychological warfare while you're on top of the guy. There was one comment that seemed questionable, but the rest of it seemed like "Make them question your sanity" kind of stuff.

I thought the Gore thing was metaphorical, but Crabtree's ACL and Vernon Davis' ankle seemed pretty explicit. Those are the ones that really bothered me.

garion333 wrote:

When I listened to the audio I thought he was being metaphorical about kill the head on Gore. Maybe I should listen again.

The metaphor is mixed with some less metaphorical statements, like, "We need to decide on how many times we can beat Frank Gore's head", and "We want his head sideways".

At that point, you're no longer referring to Frank Gore as the metaphorical head of the 49er body. Now you're just talking about beating Frank Gore in the noggin.

Sideways just means you want him running side to side to get away from defenders, not looking down-field and running north/south gaining yards.

The beat the head thing...yeah, I got nothing.

A couple of former NFL players, including Darren Woodson, were on First Take yesterday, and discussed the audio. They said this kind of thing was pretty run of the mill for a Sat night pep talk, but did seem to make an exception for the named call outs and specific injuries.

They seemed to strongly believe that the Frank Gore thing was metaphor -- saying that their running game was the 'head' of the offense, and if that were stopped, the rest of the offense would cave.

It seemed to me that Williams was mixing metaphor with specifics and kind of winking when he used the metaphors. Either way, I think he's coached his last game in the NFL.

Normally, a free agent offensive guard signing a one-year deal would not rank very high on the news-o-meter, but when it's the Bengals and the free agent is someone presumably signing for more than the veteran minimum, it's a tad more newsworthy.

I always feel bad for players that end up in Cinci.

Thin_J wrote:

I always feel bad for players that end up in Cinci.

Draft picks? Sure. Free agents? They know what they're getting into. Nobody has to go to Cincy or Oakland.

Well, he was just with the Rams so he's clearly a glutton for punishment.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

When I listened to the audio I thought he was being metaphorical about kill the head on Gore. Maybe I should listen again.

The metaphor is mixed with some less metaphorical statements, like, "We need to decide on how many times we can beat Frank Gore's head", and "We want his head sideways".

At that point, you're no longer referring to Frank Gore as the metaphorical head of the 49er body. Now you're just talking about beating Frank Gore in the noggin.

This. Not to mention talking about going out to give someone a concussion.

If those kind of speeches are the du jour in the locker room, fine. But if that's the case, then the league needs to get out there and put a boot in the ass of every team pulling this bull. It's absolutely disgusting, and doubly so in the light of what the medical field is finding out year on year about the long-term effects of the injuries players are being encouraged to go inflict.

AnimeJ wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

When I listened to the audio I thought he was being metaphorical about kill the head on Gore. Maybe I should listen again.

The metaphor is mixed with some less metaphorical statements, like, "We need to decide on how many times we can beat Frank Gore's head", and "We want his head sideways".

At that point, you're no longer referring to Frank Gore as the metaphorical head of the 49er body. Now you're just talking about beating Frank Gore in the noggin.

This. Not to mention talking about going out to give someone a concussion.

If those kind of speeches are the du jour in the locker room, fine. But if that's the case, then the league needs to get out there and put a boot in the ass of every team pulling this bull. It's absolutely disgusting, and doubly so in the light of what the medical field is finding out year on year about the long-term effects of the injuries players are being encouraged to go inflict.

Well said. I'm kind of astounded by the arguments about how everyone does it, which is pretty much like saying two wrongs DO make a right. If it's wrong, then it's good for the league to start putting a stop to it. It's unfortunate for my many Louisianian friends that their team is the first one targeted, for sure - but rather than blame the league for singling them out, blame the leadership of the team for being monumentally stupid and brazen about continuing to do it even after warnings and knowing that they were being investigated. There is not NEARLY enough blame going from Saints fans to Williams and Payton.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

SHUT YOUR DIRTY WHORE MOUTHS. ALL OF YOU.

Elite corners are very hard to come by. Passable RBs are not. If Schiano's defensive philosophy is, in fact, to play a more attacking style of defense, that increases further the need for a corner to be able to help. Take the damn corner, pick up a back later. It's not that hard of a concept.

If they take Richardson, I will pee on my TV. I may travel to your homes and pee on your TVs.

If they do draft him, my advice to you is: drink lots of fluids.

unfortunate for my many Louisianian friends that their team is the first one targeted, for sure - but rather than blame the league for singling them out, blame the leadership of the team for being monumentally stupid and brazen about continuing to do it even after warnings and knowing that they were being investigated. There is not NEARLY enough blame going from Saints fans to Williams and Payton.

Your are sadly mistaken if you think the above has anything to do with this bounty nonsense. Defensive players in the NFL are paid their salary to beat the crap out of the offensive player. Remove them from the play the ball and pretty much anything in order to take their heart and spirit out of the game.

If you want the NFL to change then the only solution is to take out tackling and put in flags.

I'm serious. You can't regulate the violence out of the NFL. Guys are flying around and hitting each other from the blindside. All over-regulation will do is cause too many grey area rules and hurt the product. I would much rather just see them play with flags and call it a day.

Would that be as popular?

This is like Rome when years later people would be outraged that Gladiators died in the coliseum