League of Legends Game Nights/Season 2 League

One thing I noticed last night is you're definitely in stage 1 of the three stage "laning maturity model" that I just invented right now.

Stage 1 - always passive, focused entirely on not dying.
Stage 2 - passive until an ally comes to gank, then aggressive during the gank.
Stage 3 - aggressive in lane when possible.

I submit that you are mechanically ready to advance to stage 2. If an ally comes in, just cast yourself into the crucible of fate and go for the kill with him. If you die because the ally misjudged the strengths and shouldn't have come in, that's okay. Eyeball judging the fights is the LoL skill that takes the longest to develop. Just trust that the ganker did the math right and go in for the attempt.

I'd submit that there's a Stage 0 in there as well, which I think I've already graduated out of:

Stage 0 - Hits anything or anyone that comes close, regardless of any sort of tactics. Also doesn't know when to run.

I've gotten so defensive that I'm reluctant to jump into fights. I recognize that, at least. I'll have to work on just diving in when buddies arrive, I guess.

I mention this is my latest game commentary.
Rule #1 of learning League of Legends: DON'T. DIE.
Having a neutral effect on the game will always be better than having a negative effect on the game. If you start off just focusing on learning to not die, you can use that knowledge to later both not die and make other players die.

merphle wrote:
_Free_ wrote:

keep at it! Also keep in mind that it's more than just a skill divide. You don't have any runes and you have few masteries compared to the level 30s. It's not a big deal, but it's definitely noticeable and can lead to you losing lane even if you play well. what you need to do to counter that is play super passive early game and focus on CS. Runes/masteries dont mean a whole bunch past 10-15 minutes.

just make sure to learn from every single game. I have hundreds of games under my belt and I still learn stuff all the time.

also really commit to practicing on last-hitting. It's something that takes a long time to master. and it's not just CS totals; you have to be able to get a lot of CS while still being available for teamfights and ganks. This means you have to get to a point where you can last hit without even paying full attention to it. Practice practice practice!

Thanks. I figured as much that I'm inherently gimped just due to my level -- besides, of course, my inexperience with the game. I do learn as much as I can, and I definitely appreciate everyone's recommendations to me while playing (buy this, go here, farm top, OMG DON'T DO THAT, etc). I've also started reading up some of the strategy build guides on mobafire.com... I find those to be pretty enlightening, not so much on the "what", but more on the "why".

It is pretty fun laning with you. Most of the time all I can say is, "ok, stop auto attacking and last hit" or "omg, merphle, run/don't stand there/don't go that way/etc."

It's pretty fun =)

You're getting better at lane, though, but yeah, we need to work on your timing for jumping into stuff. In all fairness, that's a very big issue that at least I, if not most of us, need to work on from time to time (and me a lot).

Mr Crinkle wrote:

If an ally comes in, just cast yourself into the crucible of fate and go for the kill with him.

FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

Rule #1 of learning League of Legends: DON'T. DIE.

And this dichotomy is what brings the frustration... I want to help kill, but I also realize that dying has a dramatically adverse affect on my team.

oilypenguin wrote:

It is pretty fun laning with you. Most of the time all I can say is, "ok, stop auto attacking and last hit" or "omg, merphle, run/don't stand there/don't go that way/etc."

Likewise! Edit: On the fun, anyway. The feedback is both warranted and appreciated.

Also... as much as I've come to enjoy playing as a walking health/mana pot Soraka, I think I need to spend more time learning other champions. I've bought a few more, and I'm now up to 16 (including the free ones this week)... does that mean I can participate in formal draft mode?

merphle wrote:

Also... as much as I've come to enjoy playing as a walking health/mana pot Soraka, I think I need to spend more time learning other champions. I've bought a few more, and I'm now up to 16 (including the free ones this week)... does that mean I can participate in formal draft mode?

The bar is, I think, set a little higher than that.

My advice to you is, if this is something you think you're going to stick with for a while, buy the Digital Collector's pack. It gives you 20+ champs, some runes, and some playing around with RP. It's a nice slice of older champs and certainly enough to get your feet wet in any role you're interested in playing.

I think the packs are great (in fact I bought all 3), it's an easy way to get yourself a lot of things to experiment with.

merphle wrote:
Mr Crinkle wrote:

If an ally comes in, just cast yourself into the crucible of fate and go for the kill with him.

FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

Rule #1 of learning League of Legends: DON'T. DIE.

And this dichotomy is what brings the frustration... I want to help kill, but I also realize that dying has a dramatically adverse affect on my team.

oilypenguin wrote:

It is pretty fun laning with you. Most of the time all I can say is, "ok, stop auto attacking and last hit" or "omg, merphle, run/don't stand there/don't go that way/etc."

Likewise! Edit: On the fun, anyway. The feedback is both warranted and appreciated.

Also... as much as I've come to enjoy playing as a walking health/mana pot Soraka, I think I need to spend more time learning other champions. I've bought a few more, and I'm now up to 16 (including the free ones this week)... does that mean I can participate in formal draft mode?

This week at least. Next week depending on the rotation. There could still be other who do not have enough available for draft though.

merphle wrote:
Mr Crinkle wrote:

If an ally comes in, just cast yourself into the crucible of fate and go for the kill with him.

FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

Rule #1 of learning League of Legends: DON'T. DIE.

And this dichotomy is what brings the frustration... I want to help kill, but I also realize that dying has a dramatically adverse affect on my team. :(

Hammer that V key. Just because your ally is going in doesn't mean that's the smart move, they could just be signing their death warrant. If the situation is obviously not in your favor, even with 2 of you, spam V and beat feet. If they don't follow, that's their problem and their fault. Go join your other allies and help out with whatever they are trying to accomplish.

Yep my favorite strategy for getting allies to fall back is hit fall back ping and then right click your fountain. If you hang around trying to help them a bit they will just get the idea to keep fighting. You just peace out and straight up leave. Either they will get the message and fall back too or they wont and will die but at least they wont drag you down with them because you'll be dancing in spawn by then

Merphle (and everyone who is newer at LoL): if you're with a GWJer who is a LoL veteran, I would say trust them completely when they go in for a gank/teamfight. You might not always win the engagement, but if you don't join in, then the ganker/initiator is almost definitely going to die. (Now Solo Queue is a whole 'nother story - don't be so trusting in Solo Queue).

There were a few times in our games last night where we had pretty easy kills, either through ganks or buff-stealing that ended up backfiring because a lot of nearby people didn't join in.

Also, BE COMMUNICATIVE!!! If you are not going to commit to the fight, then say "dude, no, back off".

carrotpanic still makes fun of me to this day for some of my more reluctant moments. Once we were invading early and I shouted out "I am not comfortable with this!" and I was serious. I think we ended up getting first blood and a buff, so I was wrong to doubt my team. However, even though I doubted them I still committed completely because my team had committed.

Instead of adhering to the "DON'T DIE!" mantra, maybe switch it to "don't die in vain on your own because you were out of position". If you have allies committing, either commit with them or tell them to back the eff off.

merphle wrote:

Thanks. I figured as much that I'm inherently gimped just due to my level -- besides, of course, my inexperience with the game. I do learn as much as I can, and I definitely appreciate everyone's recommendations to me while playing (buy this, go here, farm top, OMG DON'T DO THAT, etc). I've also started reading up some of the strategy build guides on mobafire.com... I find those to be pretty enlightening, not so much on the "what", but more on the "why".

Guides are great, but don't let them get in the way of learning item paths/progressions. The best 6 items aren't the same every game, no matter who the champ is. Also, even for champs like Ryze who have a very predictable item build, the order in which you get your items is super important. Take that Ryze game for instance. You were laning against GP so for the first 10-15 minutes so you were getting hit with 95% AD (5% AP from ganks let's say).

So you need to rush the Chain Vest/Glacial Shroud. However, he was their only AD threat, so you need to build Banshees AND Merc Treads before laning phase ends. After 15 minutes (or whenever laning ends, but usually right around then) the damage you faced was 80% AP.

Building the right resists in the right order is key for someone like Ryze who depends on resists/mana to be successful.

_Free_ wrote:

Merphle (and everyone who is newer at LoL): if you're with a GWJer who is a LoL veteran, I would say trust them completely when they go in for a gank/teamfight. You might not always win the engagement, but if you don't join in, then the ganker/initiator is almost definitely going to die.
...
Also, BE COMMUNICATIVE!!! If you are not going to commit to the fight, then say "dude, no, back off".

Yep. If you go in and die when the ganker comes, then it's possibly your fault (maybe you could have done damage and flashed out and lived), but no one's going to get angry at you for that. If you don't go in and don't clearly state your intention, then the ganker is both going to die and look like an idiot while doing so, and they're definitely going to be angry about that. In a GWJ game they won't come out and berate you, but they'll be sighing inside. In a pub game they'll yell at you and they'll be right (not about yelling, but about it being your fault).

Instead of adhering to the "DON'T DIE!" mantra, maybe switch it to "don't die in vain on your own because you were out of position".

I greatly prefer this revised mantra. Dying heads up in lane, possibly dumb. Dying because you took a silly route to a team fight or were badly overextended, definitely dumb. Dying because you committed to a team fight when your team had even or greater numbers, that's just something that happens.

Yeah, the hesitation is a killer. Seeing the jungler go in to a lane to gank and be out there all alone while the peeps in the lane continue to hit creeps is a little heart breaking.

Lump that in with fights in the river/jungle that are ignored by nearby laners not pinned at their own towers. That sh*t drives me up the fricken wall. Helping your team 1 screen away is more important than a few CS.

oilypenguin wrote:

My advice to you is, if this is something you think you're going to stick with for a while, buy the Digital Collector's pack. It gives you 20+ champs, some runes, and some playing around with RP. It's a nice slice of older champs and certainly enough to get your feet wet in any role you're interested in playing.

I've definitely been eyeing it over the last week, but I haven't yet convinced myself that I'll be able to bust through some mental barriers and start learning more than just the mechanics of the game. Perhaps in a fit of drunken capitalism one of these nights...

_Free_ wrote:

Guides are great, but don't let them get in the way of learning item paths/progressions. The best 6 items aren't the same every game, no matter who the champ is. Also, even for champs like Ryze who have a very predictable item build, the order in which you get your items is super important. Take that Ryze game for instance. You were laning against GP so for the first 10-15 minutes so you were getting hit with 95% AD (5% AP from ganks let's say).

Agreed, absolutely. The guides help me understand generally what's good for my own offensive abilities and general defense, but quite honestly, I have basically no idea whether any given opponent is AP or AD, so I don't really know what to look for on specific defenses. And I certainly need to get a lot more familiar with each of the items... other than what you guys (or the guides) point out as things to shoot for, I'm typically going by the stock list of "recommended items" in the store.

Dyni wrote:
Polliwog wrote:

Thanks for posting the replays, I enjoyed watching one of the matches. How much of a baptism of fire is it to jump from bot games to 5v5 with real folks?

Fresh meat...

I'm OK with this, I certainly fed the other team when learning L4D2.

I'll probably jump in soon. Do I need to own a certain number of champions to play with y'all?

Polliwog wrote:
Dyni wrote:
Polliwog wrote:

Thanks for posting the replays, I enjoyed watching one of the matches. How much of a baptism of fire is it to jump from bot games to 5v5 with real folks?

Fresh meat...

I'm OK with this, I certainly fed the other team when learning L4D2.

I'll probably jump in soon. Do I need to own a certain number of champions to play with y'all?

No, usually we do blind pick where even if you do not own a single champion you can play with us using the free rotation. The draft games though do require a certain amount, we sometimes do those depending on who is on.

merphle wrote:

Agreed, absolutely. The guides help me understand generally what's good for my own offensive abilities and general defense, but quite honestly, I have basically no idea whether any given opponent is AP or AD, so I don't really know what to look for on specific defenses. And I certainly need to get a lot more familiar with each of the items... other than what you guys (or the guides) point out as things to shoot for, I'm typically going by the stock list of "recommended items" in the store.

It will take a LONG time to learn which champ is AD/AP. However, AD/AP damage is driven mostly by items, so if you learn which items give AD/AP, you can figure it out pretty good in any game - even against a champ you've never seen! Also, many champs can run either AD or AP so you really need to check their items to see.

Teemo is a good example. The best way to build him (IMO) is what's called "on hit". This means you buy items that provide DoT (damage-over-time) and/or "shredding" abilities (lowering MR or armor). Teemos like to do this because his W is a DoT so there is a synergy if you build shredding/DoT items. When you build him this way, the majority of his damage will actually be magic. This is counter-intuitive since he's auto-attacking to deal his damage. This is why you want build MR when you face an on-hit Teemo.

Another great way to figure out what resists to buy is to check the Damage Graph when you die. You can see exactly what killed you and what kind of damage it was.

Attack Damage - build more armor
Magic Damage - build more MR
True Damage - build more Health (except for Vayne, she does %-based true damage. you need to either ban her or lower her attack speed with Exhaust/Frozen heart, etc.)

Honestly, a lot of this stuff will just come over time. But you can accelerate your knowledge base by continually asking questions in GWJ games. No question is too stupid to ask.

Most of us are more than happy to run our mouths explaining things. It makes us feel important and valued.

_Free_ wrote:
merphle wrote:

Agreed, absolutely. The guides help me understand generally what's good for my own offensive abilities and general defense, but quite honestly, I have basically no idea whether any given opponent is AP or AD, so I don't really know what to look for on specific defenses. And I certainly need to get a lot more familiar with each of the items... other than what you guys (or the guides) point out as things to shoot for, I'm typically going by the stock list of "recommended items" in the store.

It will take a LONG time to learn which champ is AD/AP. However, AD/AP damage is driven mostly by items, so if you learn which items give AD/AP, you can figure it out pretty good in any game - even against a champ you've never seen! Also, many champs can run either AD or AP so you really need to check their items to see.

Teemo is a good example. The best way to build him (IMO) is what's called "on hit". This means you buy items that provide DoT (damage-over-time) and/or "shredding" abilities (lowering MR or armor). Teemos like to do this because his W is a DoT so there is a synergy if you build shredding/DoT items. When you build him this way, the majority of his damage will actually be magic. This is counter-intuitive since he's auto-attacking to deal his damage. This is why you want build MR when you face an on-hit Teemo.

Another great way to figure out what resists to buy is to check the Damage Graph when you die. You can see exactly what killed you and what kind of damage it was.

Attack Damage - build more armor
Magic Damage - build more MR
True Damage - build more Health (except for Vayne, she does %-based true damage. you need to either ban her or lower her attack speed with Exhaust/Frozen heart, etc.)

Honestly, a lot of this stuff will just come over time. But you can accelerate your knowledge base by continually asking questions in GWJ games. No question is too stupid to ask.

Most of us are more than happy to run our mouths explaining things. It makes us feel important and valued. :)

That and watch and listen to more great commentaries!

ok anyways, another important note on that build X. If the enemy is build bloodrazor (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...) then be careful of building health. That item is designed as a tank killer and will allow attack speed champs hammer through a champion with tons of health. For that item build either frozen heart or magic resist. Don't build frozen heart if your tank already has it, they dont stack and if the tank has it completely built than as long as your near him his will go into effect. Instead use the slot for a good magic resist like a veil (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...). Of course all these items depend on who you are. While a veil can be decent on almost any champion, it can be a waist on non mana champions. For instance a shen could build it for just the single spell block, or he could build a Force of Nature (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...) for health regen or go on the offensive with an abyssal scepter (http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...) that would not only increase his damage but also increase the nearby AP damage of your team mates.

Thank you both! This, I'm sure, will be helpful information as I get more familiar with the game, but that sort of team item strategy is still over my head... so please forgive me if I pipe up in the middle of a game and ask what I need to build towards.

P.S. Thanks, guys, for all of the game invites last night. I wish I could've participated, but unfortunately my wife had decided that last night was The Night to do taxes.

P.P.S. The aforementioned taxes resulted in a bank error in my favor! I'm now the proud owner of a shiny new digital collector's pack bundle.

Was fun playing with you tonight Merph and congrats on having all the new champs. Glad yer sticking with it.

Jow wrote:

Was fun playing with you tonight Merph and congrats on having all the new champs. Glad yer sticking with it.

Likewise!

I think I might have to spend a bunch of games in a row hitting the "random champ" button, though, just to force myself to start learning some more characters. I very much did enjoy playing as Warwick, once I beefed up his attack speed.

Try custom games full of braindead bots for experimenting with abilities. the best thing is that you can leave them and start over without ditching on people or getting reported. they're not much competition obviously, but great sandbox.

Dominion is also a good place to go to try out new builds and get used to using abilities. The matches are shorter, and there are non stop hero battles. The item builds you choose might be different, but it's a great spot to practice using abilities and participating in team fights.

Also, it's rumble night and I still haven't decided what my beverage of choice is going to be. Egads!

Which lane will I taaaaaaaaake? It's Friday, Friday, gotta play LoL on Friday. Killing champs, fun fun, WE SO EXCITED! (or maybe "squee got ignited"?)

FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

Which lane will I taaaaaaaaake? It's Friday, Friday, gotta play LoL on Friday. Killing champs, fun fun, WE SO EXCITED! (or maybe "squee got ignited"?)

I was considering singing this song at first, but then I remembered that I have honor.

Props for the ignite comment though, I did indeed make some miscalculations about shens on shens.

I will be at a play rehearsal until about 9. Hopefully when I get back you all will still be playing and I can do a commentary on a few games.

FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

Which lane will I taaaaaaaaake? It's Friday, Friday, gotta play LoL on Friday. Killing champs, fun fun, WE SO EXCITED! (or maybe "squee got ignited"?)

I want this on youtube NOW!

Hey guys, long time lurker here. I heard mention of GWJ LoL nights on the podcast and decided to come check it out. Looking forward to playing with you guys tonight!

Dyni wrote:
FedoraMcQuaid wrote:

Which lane will I taaaaaaaaake? It's Friday, Friday, gotta play LoL on Friday. Killing champs, fun fun, WE SO EXCITED! (or maybe "squee got ignited"?)

I want this on youtube NOW!

After three of whatever I mix up tonight you'll have it live in vent I'm sure. Then you won't want it ever again.

psoplayer wrote:

Hey guys, long time lurker here. I heard mention of GWJ LoL nights on the podcast and decided to come check it out. Looking forward to playing with you guys tonight!

That's what I'm talking about! Come join us buddy, we're friendly I swear! Shout out to the podcast (Rabbit) for the shout out.