Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread

liquid wrote:

I agree completely. There is no sense of accomplishment, no reward, no real closure to the saga. I feel cheated and robbed, all this build up and it was pretty much for nothing.
And up until now I still don't know if I got the best ending or not.
Can you not go into the light or some other side of the citadel (similar to how Deus Ex handled it)? Or is it always you dive into the beam and get a random ending/choice based on your stats from before?

And I feel happy and not robbed and not cheated because the tears of others have saved me $60 and some heartache. Thanks, guys.

It's weird, but it's almost like BioWare has decided they just don't want to do another Mass Effect; they want to be done with the series. So they came up with an ending that basically makes it impossible for the series (as it currently exists) to continue.

And of course, the obligatory Hitler video about Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers, naturally).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qYm7...

I was up until 4 AM finishing it.

/sigh

Spoiler:

That was such a good ending until it actually ended. I'm all for no-win scenarios but that kind of obvious railroading....

To be honest, I feel it cheapened 3 games. This character that I spent so much time defining, at the end was boiled down to 3 terrible choices? It's fine that Shepard had to die and I don't get to stay with my Tali but those choices were just too abrupt. They were too big and they were too out of left field. A series defined by choices made despite overwhelming odds and I can only control snthetics, kill them or make everyone synthetic?

And then even those choices were invalidated because they needed to leave the door open for DLC!

EDIT: And after hitting youtube up for the other endings, I stand by my choice of synthesis. Sorry, robot-friends.

I don't know. I really enjoyed this game and this series and I don't think that, knowing how it ends, it will keep me from another play through. But man, I really wanted to end things with a good feeling. If not 'happy' than at least 'satisfied.'

And actually after hitting youtube, I might be coming around. I still don't like the endings but. Hm.

Certis wrote:

This is the spoiler thread! Please continue to use spoiler tags indicating what it is you'll be discussing.

Romance spoilers:

Spoiler:

My FemShep's commitment to Liara wavered when the hot accent Yeoman started hitting on me. Oh, did it waver.

LarryC wrote:

oilypenguin:

I don't know that it was the actual choices that really killed the endings. Shepard dying is fine by nearly everyone I can read on the web, and having him survive with a mandatory EMS rating is still okay. It's not those factors that make the endings so bad.

For me, it's the Mass Relays being destroyed - that is unquestionably bad. Have them be destroyed in a DLC at a later date, but not at a point where every significant military in the galaxy is stuck on Earth. And the Quarians! What a tragedy for them! After all that effort, too. The entire positive ending to the Geth-Quarian conflict is negated by something you can't even choose to avoid! It's bad. It's like having the genophage cure rescinded anyway, after all the effort you took in making sure it got done.

The second worst factor, of course, is that there is no actual varied content depending on how you ended your game. It's the same ending with different-colored blasts. No epilogue or closure, either. Awful. It's so bad that I think that ending the game with a reasonably low EMS resulting in a complete Reaper win would actually improve the game.

Oh no, you're quite right.

Spoiler:

I'm still trying to sort through my actual feelings on the ending, to tell you the truth. I just didn't like the simplicity of the choices, I guess. Each one did a bit too much, each was too much of a paradigm shift.

I'm actually ok that every ending was some form of tragedy. I don't know why my entire crew (including the people I had with me during that last charge) was on the Normandy and flying FTL at the end. That struck me as odd.

tanstaafl wrote:

It's weird, but it's almost like BioWare has decided they just don't want to do another Mass Effect; they want to be done with the series. So they came up with an ending that basically makes it impossible for the series (as it currently exists) to continue.

They did market this game as the ending to the Mass Effect series, and they deliver.

I realize that I didn't want an ending just yet. I liked ME2's structure of recruitment and loyalty missions; each about an hour long, and 26 in total. Similar to watching a season of Star Trek. I wanted more seasons damnit!

oilypenguin:

Ending spoiler:

Spoiler:

I don't know that it was the actual choices that really killed the endings. Shepard dying is fine by nearly everyone I can read on the web, and having him survive with a mandatory EMS rating is still okay. It's not those factors that make the endings so bad.

For me, it's the Mass Relays being destroyed - that is unquestionably bad. Have them be destroyed in a DLC at a later date, but not at a point where every significant military in the galaxy is stuck on Earth. And the Quarians! What a tragedy for them! After all that effort, too. The entire positive ending to the Geth-Quarian conflict is negated by something you can't even choose to avoid! It's bad. It's like having the genophage cure rescinded anyway, after all the effort you took in making sure it got done.

The second worst factor, of course, is that there is no actual varied content depending on how you ended your game. It's the same ending with different-colored blasts. No epilogue or closure, either. Awful. It's so bad that I think that ending the game with a reasonably low EMS resulting in a complete Reaper win would actually improve the game.

I agree completely.
Thoughts on ending and such (edit for tags)

Spoiler:

There is no sense of accomplishment, no reward, no real closure to the saga. I feel cheated and robbed, all this build up and it was pretty much for nothing.
And up until now I still don't know if I got the best ending or not.
Can you not go into the light or some other side of the citadel (similar to how Deus Ex handled it)? Or is it always you dive into the beam and get a random ending/choice based on your stats from before?

Dear Bioware,

I want to personally thank you for giving EDI a body and making my dream of playing a game set inside a Svedka vodka ad a reality.

Sincerely,

nel

liquid wrote:

And of course, the obligatory Hitler video about Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers, naturally).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qYm7...

Mass Effect 3: Aliens vs. Reapers. Whoever wins, fans lose.

I wish I had photoshop skills to make that poster up.

I wonder if they have some DLC in development/waiting to push out in 1-2 months to deal with the questions raised or if they are honestly doing what they can to kill off the universe and move on to new projects.

Xeknos wrote:

Romance spoilers:

Spoiler:

My FemShep's commitment to Liara wavered when the hot accent Yeoman started hitting on me. Oh, did it waver.

Yep.

Spoiler:

I wavered on manShep, and when I invited her up to my room to play chess, I tried to put the moves on her. Turns out she doesn't swing that way, which is much improved character backgrounds this time around. Her and the pilot Cortez are both gay and aren't going to swing the other way just because Shep is the coolest man/woman in the 'verse.

Still, looking forward to hitting on her with femShep I think. Damn that accent. :D

EDIT: spoiler tag added: ending

Spoiler:

What I wanted: the option of a F**K YEAH ending where I save the galaxy and all my relationships continue. My Shepherd gets to run off with Miranda free from Reapers and the Illusive Man, call up Garrus for some drinks from time to time, check in with Liara and Tali, and punch James in the face.

What I got: The Matrix Revolutions

I think we can all agree: it was GREAT up until you went up into that stupid beam of light.

BNice wrote:
Certis wrote:

This is the spoiler thread! Please continue to use spoiler tags indicating what it is you'll be discussing.

Yes thank you. I had to skip Larry's post after the first sentence, and bunch of other posts after that.

This is the whole story spoilers thread, not just endgame spoilers. I came in here to talk about losing squad members and other shocking things that have happened along the way, without cluttering up the catch-all thread.

I still haven't finished the main game, due to fun multiplayer, and my passion for 100% scanning every damn system. Maybe today. Maybe tomorrow. Depends how much coop I get drug into this afternoon.

Pikey26:

Start game spoilers:

Spoiler:

Actually, I just started a Renegade playthrough where I killed off the Council and installed Udina as one of the representatives in a now all-Human Council. Guess what? The Council is no longer all-human. Ack!

I wonder what'll happen in my other playthrough where I made Anderson Councilor.

It's awful

Don't look at the following unless you finished.

[spoiler]
I could live with these endings. All the decisions/choices you have made up until this point in ME1/2, while don't have direct influence on the very last chapter, they are more or less covered throughOUT ME3, and they ARE needed to help you get to the point where you make the final choice in the first place, so I don't necessarily feel that all my decisions/commitments were futile like I've been seeing a lot of people are feeling.

The basic idea behind the choices aren't too terrible for me either.

- Sacrificing yourself to become the reaper to save everyone and the galaxy a chance being the 'Paragon' choice makes sense. While vague, if you're controlling the reapers, maybe it's the best shot at beating the cycle, and give the galaxy to prove itself against the god child's concept. Can you retain your sanity for eternity in reaper form however? Extremely likely that in the distant future, you will most probably go mad and start the cycle all over again or something to that effect (as Shep says to the Illusive Man, "we're not ready"), but still this is the most hopeful out of the three.
- Self-sacrifice + Synthesis being the 'cop-out' option of compromise, I could live with that. There is a massive moral question of whether it's worth potentially sacrificing true individuality, but hey apparently there is something resembling individuality left to an extent (based on the ending cutscene of EDI/Joker still being together), and apparently joker can get laid now.
- Killing all synthetic races (reaper/geth/ed/possibly geth-enhanced Quarians), just so you can live (well have a shot at living if your rating was high), makes sense as a 'Renegade' choice. Irresponsible and selfish, considering you're wiping out the hope and foundation's for the future to prove that the 'god-child's concept of 'created will always oppose the creators' is false.

However, Normandy crashing in the middle of nowhere makes no sense. There just doesn't seem to have been enough time to pick up squadmates/crew (some of whom should have been dead) AND enter the relay to escape. Why the hell were they in the relay? Your crew getting stranded in the middle of nowhere no matter what you do... is sh*t. Which takes me to the following point.

My biggest gripe is Mass Relays being destroyed in EVERY. SINGLE. POSSIBILITY. No matter how hard I try and appreciate it, that's what pisses on my Shep's parade the most. While it actually hurts me emotionally to see the Shepard I invested so much time into die just to save every one (especially after all that emotional build up throughout ME3, jeez), I can live without a 'fairy tale' ending for my Shepard. However, destroying the Mass Relays in every scenerio and more or less dooming the galaxy for the foreseeable future... EVEN when I sacrifise myself to become the reaper? That's just crap. I started seeing the stitches falling apart at the seams towards the end, but hey I can forgive Bioware for it. They only have so much time to make these games on EA's schedule, they are most likely no less invested than the fans are, and there's only so much you can do in a given time. That's one of the reasons I will accept the entirety if ME3 as an outcome of my investment/decisions in ME1/2, instead of just the final chapter. That's ok.

But this ending, even with the most forgiving/sympathetic eye, has some really crummy problems.

I have to add, all of this is after hours and a night's sleep of thinking over it and trying to accept the game as it is. I've come to terms with the ending, somewhat. My initial reaction was more common, 98 percent of the game is amazing, the last 2 percent is un-redeemable in anyway. It was so crippling for me, that I actually started to rationalize the badness so the it was 'less severe' as you can read above. And that is the best I can do to achieve that.

And my last thought is, the game is out now, they can put out a dlc or a patch or whatever to fix the ending (unlikely), but it will never be cannon in my eyes. Cannon = original for me. And sadly, this amazing series is da poop for me now, because of that little detail I can't seem to get over.

@larryc

Spoiler:

I forgot about that. were the representatives actually all human in ME2? it doesn't make sense to me personally, to have humans suddenly become the master race ruling all of the galaxy just because you installed a douchebag and displaced some politicians.

@larry

[spoiler]Meh, that minor council tidbit aside, I do feel that most of ME3 as a whole is a rewarding end product of the decisions you made in the two games leading up to it.

The ending OF ME3 has some serious flaws, fatally flawed for many, but I don't think the decisions and investments you made in the game is rendered moot entirely because "the decision" at the end is independent of all the things you've done in the previous. All the things you've done in the previous is what earns you the right to make "the decision."

The biggest problem in my eyes is the destructions of relays in every scenerio. Had that not been the case, it would have been far easier people to accept the notion of hope for the future, a common theme in ME3 (right til the end with the conversation with the god-child). Sadly, I don't know how or why, but that wasn't the case.

One more thing about the last mission.

Spoiler:

This is it. - anyone else started chuckling after the 5-6th time they said that phrase? Reminded me of that youtube video of Batman and cold/freeze jokes by Arnold.

Ending

Spoiler:

I agree, the destruction of the relays ruins it. It is like taking warp speed out of Star Trek. It is the core foundation of the universe in a sense.

This single decision by Bioware, to me, is the difference between declaring this my all-time favorite game series and thinking it is just another good game in my stack of good games. I was so invested in this story and ME1 made me rethink storytelling in games. It is what made Mass Effect so good to me. For it to fail so needlessly makes me sad.

On a different aspect of the ending.

Spoiler:

Which companion goodbye was your favorite? I thought Kaiden and Garrus had great ones, with the Paragon moment being particularly poignant for Garrus.

Ending

Spoiler:

I haven't read any forums at all so I don't know what other people think, but I beat it one minute ago the ending was so f*cking bad I nearly broke my screen.

Spoiler for

Spoiler:

Priority Rannoch

mission.

Spoiler:

Does this unit have a soul?
Yes.

Dammit. Another former squad member down.

At least right after that mission, I got some good news from Hackett:

Spoiler:

Spacer background... my mom is alive and well and with the fleet!

Regarding the genophage, mordin, wrex and stuff (later game spoilers as well)

Spoiler:

I thought the mission surrounding it was brilliantly put together, they tell you about the decision way in advance so you get plenty of time to think it over. Then in the actual mission the female Krogan keeps insisting Shepard is feeling weird, then to actually stop Mordin you need to shoot him yourself with an interrupt. After that they really make you feel it, first with Wrex and then back on the ship.

It was probably the only time that I felt the way that my character on screen felt, which was a pretty cool thing. There were many moments throughout the series where Shepard makes hard choices, like Ash/Kaidan, the council etc. but I never really cared enough. They always talk about making hard choices, so I thought it was appropriate that I felt uncomfortable.

But then Wrex finds out somehow, which I found completely implausible. So I have to kill him, whatever. I thought that was a cop-out because I still had the Krogan's support. Then Hackett tells me that I have the Salarians' support because I (or Thane) saved their Councilor. Well great, so I didn't even have to sabotage the genophage? And then I get my whatever rating high enough anyway, so it didn't matter. And even if I hadn't I could just have played the MP.

It was a great moment and decision point, but then they undermine it, because it didn't really matter. Oh well, at least it was a cool moment. The only good thing I'll take from this game.

I'm rather disappointed.

(minor Quarian Fleet spoilers)

Spoiler:

Infiltrated the geth consensus by entering a virtual-world representation of their shared consciousness, and not once did I get turned into a toilet.

kyrieee wrote:

Regarding the genophage, mordin, wrex and stuff (later game spoilers as well)

Spoiler:

YOU SHOT MORDIN?

Hyetal wrote:
kyrieee wrote:

Regarding the genophage, mordin, wrex and stuff (later game spoilers as well)

Spoiler:

YOU SHOT MORDIN?

Spoiler:

HOW COULD YOU SHOOT MORDIN!
That moment with Mordin going up the elevator was AWESOME. Probably my favorite part of the game.

Hyetal wrote:
kyrieee wrote:

Regarding the genophage, mordin, wrex and stuff (later game spoilers as well)

Spoiler:

YOU SHOT MORDIN?

Spoiler:

Well, I felt really really bad about it. I also shot Wrex, several times.
In the end though, it came down to the survival of the galaxy being more important than anything else. If saving the Krogan means losing the war, then you lost anyway. It epitomises the kind of sacrifice that I thought the game was about, that Shepard's story was about. I thought that if I saved them and got a crap ending, then that would be worse and that rationally, it was the right decision.

Like I said, I thought it was a great decision point, I mean the whole series was a build up to it. Unfortunately it didn't have the significance I attributed to it, it doesn't really change that much.

I have to say though that they really make his death painful to watch. It's really dragged out, and even after he's dead it goes on forever, both on the planet then on the ship and it comes back several more times throughout the rest of the game. You still get all the "Shepard, you're amazing. We are forever indebted!" etc. and Shepard acts just the way you feel. I'm amazed that the game could make me feel that bad about it, almost like deceiving a real person. Really well done, probably the high point of the series for me. I was taking deep breaths for 10 minutes afterwards and had to take a break :P

liquid wrote:

Thoughts on ending and such (edit for tags)

Spoiler:

There is no sense of accomplishment, no reward, no real closure to the saga. I feel cheated and robbed, all this build up and it was pretty much for nothing.

Spoiler:

Pretty much.
My more or less 100% completion ending feels worse than the worst ME2 ending.
The whole series was about stopping the Reapers, and then you don't even get to. Not really.
How does anything that you did matter? The Quarians can't go to their homeworld, hell, everyone is probably going to starve to death on Earth. Everything you did was for nothing.

I also feel cheated. Of all the things to f*ck up, did it have to be the very ending to the whole series? They had forever to come up with it. I'm so diappointed and angry =(.

I agree with whoever said that it's out of character for Shepard, and for the series as a whole.
f*cking sh*t. Is it too much to ask for that I get to save the world in a game that's about saving the world?? Can I get to feel triumphant like in ME2, please? That was a great feeling, unlike now where I'm just pacing.