Young Male with Low Testosterone

Ghostship wrote:

Legs like Zane?
Am I dating myself?

Moves like Jagger?
Are you at least a cheap drunk?

You might want to check out the This American Life episode on Testosterone.

SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm very interested in seeing how this goes. I have a lot of the same symptoms but have never considered this as a possibility. I also eat a ton of soy which is apparently not great for this.

Ditto, especially the flabby belly part. I was always skinny and it sucks putting on weight when you've always identified as a beanpole.

I suspect in my case I just need more exercise though. And to eat less crap. I'm actually on a month long self impossed vegetarian diet, it's odd that I'm finding that fine, but the thought of exercise is still pretty much the worst thing ever.

You know looking at your list of symptoms..sh*t. I should go to a doctor. I even had my mother/father tell me, whenever the hell it was, that both my father and uncle had a low testosterone issue.

Most of the time belly fat is activity levels and diet changing vs T problems. That's not something I would look at as a key indicator, but when combined with the other stuff might be a part of the clue.

Redwing wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm very interested in seeing how this goes. I have a lot of the same symptoms but have never considered this as a possibility. I also eat a ton of soy which is apparently not great for this.

Ditto, especially the flabby belly part. I was always skinny and it sucks putting on weight when you've always identified as a beanpole.

I suspect in my case I just need more exercise though. And to eat less crap. I'm actually on a month long self impossed vegetarian diet, it's odd that I'm finding that fine, but the thought of exercise is still pretty much the worst thing ever.

A little tangential, but exercise is most effective when it is a true lifestyle change, rather than a chore you see as necessary or temporary. In other words, losing fat through exercise is more a matter of changing how you live your life as opposed to just adding a line on your daily checklist. That said, this side topic better explored in detail in the appropriate activity thread.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Ghostship wrote:

Legs like Zane?
Am I dating myself?

Moves like Jagger?
Are you at least a cheap drunk?

I thought, being a gym rat (too), rockfist would recognize the tag line from the old Muscle and Fitness add for the most absurd piece of leg training equipment ever; pimped by Arnold era pro, Frank Zane.

And, not that kind of dating. And sadly no.

I suggest growing a mustache.

LarryC wrote:

A little tangential, but exercise is most effective when it is a true lifestyle change, rather than a chore you see as necessary or temporary. In other words, losing fat through exercise is more a matter of changing how you live your life as opposed to just adding a line on your daily checklist. That said, this side topic better explored in detail in the appropriate activity thread.

Same for diet. Most people don't truly make changes until they get passed the "I'm going to diet and exercise for a month to "get back in shape"" thought process. It's more of "I need to fix this, so I'm going to make a permanent change to how food and exercise are part of my life.".

And losing weight is more about diet than exercise for most people. They work together, and it's easier to do them together for best results, but the exercise works best to help retain muscle instead of burning if of when you're below maintenance calories.

All that said, for most people, don't assume low T is an excuse for putting on a bit of belly fat, because probably 99% of the time, it's not that.

I skimmed. Have you considered that it may be or also be a thyroid problem?

I'm gonna throw out a contrary opinion, but a lot of your issues sound a lot like what happens in your mid 20s. It doesn't happen to everyone, but there are definitely folks out there(myself among them) who have a harder time shedding the gut when you hit your mid 20s. It's really just a biological thing and I don't know that you're going to be able to medicate it away.

I think a lot of you are missing the other 99% of the symptoms I posted and the testosterone figure I posted, which is indisputably very low for someone my age. The abdominal fat I have gained simply isn't a natural progression. It went from nothing to a lot despite a lot of exercise and careful monitoring of caloric intake.

I am going to share a personal story here.

Recently I was diagnosed with a tumor of the pituitary gland called a "prolactinoma". This tumor has been secreting a hormone called prolactin into my system that slowly but steadily dropped my testosterone to alarmingly low numbers. The hormone prolactin is a pregnancy hormone. It is what tells the female body to lactate and stops menstration. In men prolactin is the hormone that causes the refractory period between orgasms. When I was finally diagnosed with this tumor after switching doctors I had roughly 6 times the amount of the hormone in my system that a pregnant woman would have.

The change in me happened so subtly and slowly that I assumed the fatigue I was experiencing and the emotional lability was the cause of aging or simply emotional weakness on my part. I would cry over stupid things and I was stressed all the time. I had difficulty making decisions and everything felt laborious. Finally when my waning libido gave way to impotence I got angry and (with my wife kicking me in the ass all the way) I decided to change doctors.

My previous doctor had noted my testosterone was "kind of low" in the blood tests but said that I should try to change my lifestyle to see if it increased my testosterone. Instead of running more tests and getting down to what the problem was he essentially told me to "be less fat and lazy" and my testosterone would go up. So I tried to exercise more but no matter how hard I tried I couldn't really shed weight and no matter how much I slept I couldn't shake being tired all the time. Of course this entire time I am beating myself up for being fat and lazy and I became very discouraged.

Once my new (and awesome) doctor heard my complaints and saw my blood test they had the tumor diagnosed a couple of days and one MRI later. With the tumor pumping prolactin into my body there was no way I was going to get into the shape I wanted to. I was referred to an endo who has put me on a drug called bromocriptine. It is a dopamine agonist that kicks the prolactin's ass and allows my body to produce and absorb testosterone. The side effects of the drug are a bit gnarly but taking it has opened my eyes. For several years now I have been terribly sick and not known it.

The past few days have been incredible. I can't believe how sick I was. It is boggling to me that these chemicals floating around in your blood and your brain can change who you are as a person so fundamentally. It's like I discovered a fountain of youth. I feel stronger, more assertive, confident, and vigorous. My libido has charged back and everyone at work today was asking me why I seemed so energetic. It is simply amazing. I feel like a different person. I carry myself differently and most importantly I even think differently. Things that would stress me out or cause me uncertainty before I just make a decision on now. I have more clarity of thought and things that seemed like a pain in the ass before are now just one more chore on the list.

This is a really long-winded way of me saying: GET A SECOND OPINION!

If I had done so I might have saved myself two years of fatigue and frustration. Testosterone is vital to a man. Low testosterone can lead to anemia (which I have) and can also cause osteoporosis. I think even more importantly low testosterone can change the way a man thinks and feels. I am very lucky that the tumor was caught before it got too large and that it is responding to the treatment. I am thankful that my wife stuck by me even when I was frustrated and confused about what was wrong with me. Testosterone ain't no joke. We need it. I know my case is rather extreme but I am putting it out there because the suppression of my testosterone changed my life in a bad way and the treatment for it has made me feel years younger.

If you feel bad and your doctor is ignoring you and telling you "well the numbers are okay" then find another doctor. There may be a reason your testosterone is low and it may not be readily apparent. If your quality of life is not what you want it to be then the doctor should be helping you find out how to get that quality of life instead of looking at a chart and telling you how you SHOULD feel. Don't let a doc goof you around for two years like I did. Find someone who will listen to you and work with you towards feeling better.

Best of luck in feeling better.

That is great to hear you were able to beat it! Thanks for taking the time to relate your experience. I will be seeing a guy in a couple weeks, in fact.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

I think a lot of you are missing the other 99% of the symptoms I posted and the testosterone figure I posted, which is indisputably very low for someone my age. The abdominal fat I have gained simply isn't a natural progression. It went from nothing to a lot despite a lot of exercise and careful monitoring of caloric intake.

No, I didn't. I personally haven't paid attention to my testosterone or anything, but when my gut kept coming, it was despite running 15-20 miles weekly alongside several hundred situps and pushups. I'm not saying that nothing is wrong, but what I'm saying is that for some people, myself included, this is a normal, natural part of getting old. To illustrate, 7 years ago I had a 33 inch waist(which I'd had for around 12 years at that point). A year later it was 35" and climbing(currently 38.5" roughly) and this is *despite* working out 3-5 days a week for 30-45 minutes and coming away with a sweat soaked shirt *every time*.

edit - In other words, at least to me, I think you're missing that some of us are a bit older than you and have gone through similar experiences.

[quote=AnimeJ]

edit - In other words, at least to me, I think you're missing that some of us are a bit older than you and have gone through similar experiences.[/quote

Still doesn't explain the other symptoms and the low testosterone. Either way, I am going to start TRT to see how it goes.

Increasing amounts of body fat, on the abdomen or elsewhere, is not a normal part of getting old. A slower metabolism is. It just means as you get older you need to watch your diet even more closely if you wish to avoid putting on the inches.

As far as TRT goes, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum from most of these folks posting. I say that if you've got a justification (low end T levels) to safely and legally juice under medical supervision then by all means go for it. I'll freely admit if my levels were found to be on the low end I'd be thrilled to get the doc to bump me up to the high end of the range while I enjoyed the performance gains.

As far as I see it, slower metabolism is just a normal part of maturation. It doesn't necessarily mean you've grown old - it just means you've stopped making New You, which your body keeps doing until the mid-20s for men. Of course, making new body parts is fantastically calorie-intensive.

All that said, hormone level is an important regulator of cell activity on things as basic as metabolism and interaction with other hormones and neurochemicals. The saying goes that the mind and the body are one - that is more true than most people realize. Your body is hardware, your mind is software. Things you do to the hardware can affect the software and vice versa, though they are technically different concepts.

If you do undertake TRT, ZaneRockFist, make sure to read all the risks associated with it and to ask all the questions that come to mind. Any doctor that is inclined to give you TRT is inclined to gloss over possible side effects and risks; just as you leaned for TRT in a contrary doctor, you must lean against TRT with an MD who's inclined to give it to you, for reasons he may or may not explicitly admit.

I toss out again that you should have your thyroid checked. Many of the symptoms you cite can be from a thyroid problem. The thyroid is the granddaddy of the endocrine system.

ZaneRockfist wrote:
AnimeJ wrote:

edit - In other words, at least to me, I think you're missing that some of us are a bit older than you and have gone through similar experiences.

Still doesn't explain the other symptoms and the low testosterone. Either way, I am going to start TRT to see how it goes.

Given that you never really point out what problems you're having, going by the list up there? That's all normal in my book. When you get old, you slow down. This happens to different folks at different rates, and it goes for both men *and* women. Take olympic athletes for example; not everyone is Dana Torres winning medals at 40+ years old.

AnimeJ wrote:

Given that you never really point out what problems you're having, going by the list up there? That's all normal in my book. When you get old, you slow down. This happens to different folks at different rates, and it goes for both men *and* women. Take olympic athletes for example; not everyone is Dana Torres winning medals at 40+ years old.

I am 26 and these symptoms began when I was 20. And I display all of those symptoms.

Kiri wrote:

I toss out again that you should have your thyroid checked. Many of the symptoms you cite can be from a thyroid problem. The thyroid is the granddaddy of the endocrine system.

They did a thyroid stimulating hormone test, which came back normal. Only my FSH and testosterone levels are out of whack.

Tagging because last summer I went to the urologist when my testosterone level was at 243. After a month on Androgel, it actually dropped to 99, and for my age (32 at the time), 300 is considered very low. Looks like I need to see an endocrinologist.

I went to the new doctor. After going over things with me, including a prostate exam, he had a nurse give me a 200 mg injection of testosterone. Going to have weekly shots for a month, then we're going to go over the lab work again to see where I stand.

That would be bad. With the new testosterone in your system, you're going to have to change your handle into something more manly. Is that even possible? I commiserate in your handle issues.

Spoiler:

Hoping for the best! *crossed fingers*

AnimeJ wrote:
ZaneRockfist wrote:

I think a lot of you are missing the other 99% of the symptoms I posted and the testosterone figure I posted, which is indisputably very low for someone my age. The abdominal fat I have gained simply isn't a natural progression. It went from nothing to a lot despite a lot of exercise and careful monitoring of caloric intake.

No, I didn't. I personally haven't paid attention to my testosterone or anything, but when my gut kept coming, it was despite running 15-20 miles weekly alongside several hundred situps and pushups. I'm not saying that nothing is wrong, but what I'm saying is that for some people, myself included, this is a normal, natural part of getting old. To illustrate, 7 years ago I had a 33 inch waist(which I'd had for around 12 years at that point). A year later it was 35" and climbing(currently 38.5" roughly) and this is *despite* working out 3-5 days a week for 30-45 minutes and coming away with a sweat soaked shirt *every time*.

edit - In other words, at least to me, I think you're missing that some of us are a bit older than you and have gone through similar experiences.

I'm 40, and I'm still within an inch or so of my high school waist size, and I was way too skinny in high school. I gave up running because it did nothing for me long term in staying lean and fit, and swapped it for a combo of weight training and hard, short interval energy work.

And sit ups do nothing for the waist size, no matter what infomercials might try to convince you of.

So if what you're doing doesn't work, try something else. But you're not destined to continue to gain inches. I'm not at my total peak condition right now after an injury and a bit of a reduction in my volume during recovery over the last couple of months, but I'm still much stronger than I was in my teens and young twenties, and I'm definitely 35 lbs lighter than I was at my worst shape which was in my late 20s.

Age isn't a real excuse.

I participate in a fitness forum that's more normal people vs stuff like bodybuilding.com or the juicer type forums, and I consistently see people get into their best shapes ever when they're 50+. Yes, it's harder for many as you get older, but it's no reason to settle.

ZaneRockfist wrote:

I went to the new doctor. After going over things with me, including a prostate exam, he had a nurse give me a 200 mg injection of testosterone. Going to have weekly shots for a month, then we're going to go over the lab work again to see where I stand.

Why did he want to go with injections vs something transdermal? I'd have thought with just low-normal numbers, it's much easier to go transdermal first to see how that works out. Something like Androgel or Testim (Androgel is my preferred).

MannishBoy wrote:

Why did he want to go with injections vs something transdermal? I'd have thought with just low-normal numbers, it's much easier to go transdermal first to see how that works out. Something like Androgel or Testim (Androgel is my preferred).

He expressed concerns about the fact that I am still producing testosterone that he would like to eventually combine a testosterone stimulant with replacement eventually. For now, he just wants to see how my symptoms respond to the treatment. And he said that his experience with gels is that they do not work as effectively as the injections, so he opted for them.

I remember watching a documentary about a female-to-male transsexual who was put on testosterone shots. He was on so much of the stuff that he was turned on by the curves on a sports car.

Crazy stuff.

ZaneRockfist wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

Why did he want to go with injections vs something transdermal? I'd have thought with just low-normal numbers, it's much easier to go transdermal first to see how that works out. Something like Androgel or Testim (Androgel is my preferred).

He expressed concerns about the fact that I am still producing testosterone that he would like to eventually combine a testosterone stimulant with replacement eventually. For now, he just wants to see how my symptoms respond to the treatment. And he said that his experience with gels is that they do not work as effectively as the injections, so he opted for them.

Well, supplement T often does suppress natural production, no matter what type.

The other risk with injections vs the transdermals is that they're more likely to screw up other hormones. When doing my reading after starting down this path myself, I kept seeing that many people on injections end up also on aromatase inhibitors to reduce estrogen levels that elevate when the body converts the extra T to estrogen.

The down side to transdermals is that often they'll work initially, then you'll respond less over time. I switched from Androgel to Testim for awhile because the Androgel had stopped working as well, and my numbers were dropping. After being on Testim for awhile, a similar thing started happening, and I asked the doctor if I could try switching back (Testim has a slight odor I never liked anyway), and if the Androgel didn't work again I would go to injections. Well, that time the Androgel was working again, and in the several years since has kept working. But that is definitely a risk of reduced effectiveness over time with transdermals.

But I'm not a doctor. I'm just glad your getting to see how something works.