Mass Effect 3 Catch-All

NSMike wrote:

I noticed folks mentioned there were more missions that have expiration timers... Does anyone know of a list of these, so I don't mistakenly sit on one too long?

I've come across one that I missed, and it was fairly well noted in the conversation where I picked it up that it was urgent. I could see them adding some measure for how long you have left to do a mission, but at the same time that's a bit gamey, so there's pros to leaving it out and having a bit of a gamble/prioritisation/decision making.

Spoiler:

Some academy needs rescuing

I'm not too bothered about missing things, as it provides a bit more variety for multiple playthroughs. ME3 seems suited to not having an ideal "I win 100%" playthrough.

Oh, ok, so the priority missions are the expiration points, there's not some "After X number of minutes, this quest goes away and there's f*ck all you can do about it" expiration timer. That's good to know.

EDIT: Well, Scratched's comment leads me to believe that both exist. Crap.

It sucks being a completionist when game designers hate you.

That's a shame, Scratched. That mission

Spoiler:

has an appearance from a former squadmate that you might have enjoyed. :(

Stele wrote:
NSMike wrote:

I noticed folks mentioned there were more missions that have expiration timers... Does anyone know of a list of these, so I don't mistakenly sit on one too long?

Pretty much all of the collection missions you get on the Citadel early... if you don't turn them in before one of the priority missions, that will trigger a different priority mission on the Citadel, and you can't turn them in. :(

Something I thought was a nice touch, regarding one of your ME2 squad and the citadel...

Spoiler:

Miranda contacted me looking for a meeting in the citadel docks (ahem), but I didn't get to it until after some priority missions, I want go to the citadel to catch up a few things, at which point other events kick off, after that she wasn't where her email said. After doing another mission she emails again with a different meet up location, and she references the events that delayed the meeting.

Just do all the N7 missions ASAP and before the priority missions. There is one mission with the word "Bomb", for example, you can do 2 or 3 missions before you fail it because the bomb was detonated.

I'm sure after a playthrough or two the exact timing mechanisms will become more obvious to me and be way easier to game (exactly like the Suicide Mission in ME2) but the first time through I really appreciate not knowing. I prefer my first time through to let the sh*t hit the fan and play out as it will, really makes the whole "your choices have consequences" idea work much better.

I experienced an odd bug on a Citadel quest last night. Without spoiling too much, the quest involves spying on a Hanar in the embassy. Eventually I got to a point where I had to access a control panel outside the Hanar's office. I used the control point, watched the cut scene and then... nothing happened. The control panel was still pinged as a point of interest, but clicking on it did nothing. The quest was still in my journal but I couldn't find anyway to advance it any more.

What made it more annoying was whenever I moved to another floor on the Citadel, the location of the control panel was still pinged on my UI (usually in either the ceiling or floor, waaaaaaaay out of reach). After searching the entire Citadel for any way to advance the quest thread (which I really wanted because of the interactions with a past character), I gave up and moved on to another mission. Now when I return to the Citadel the node is gone and I have no clue how resume this broken quest.

Has anyone else experienced this?

NSMike wrote:

I noticed folks mentioned there were more missions that have expiration timers... Does anyone know of a list of these, so I don't mistakenly sit on one too long?

No guide available yet. Just make sure to ignore every mission called "Priority: xyz" until you have completed every other active one in your quest log. Exception may be doing "Priority: New Eden" (the DLC mission) right at the beginning of the game.

Also make sure to start the planet scanning as early as possible. The awareness levels in the Reaper-infested systems resets after every mission, meaning unless you want to save-load exploit, you'll need more than one sweep of most systems to find everything. The other advantage is finding plenty of credits, upgrades and even quest starting artifacts that way.

Also not to hot on the fact that...

Spoiler:

... the game dumps a side mission in the Shrike Abyssal on me right at the start and that constellation won't be available until much later. Thanks for having me pointlessly swipe the entire galaxy map in hopes of finding a "hidden" constellation for 15 minutes, BioWare.

MojoBox wrote:

I'm sure after a playthrough or two the exact timing mechanisms will become more obvious to me and be way easier to game (exactly like the Suicide Mission in ME2) but the first time through I really appreciate not knowing. I prefer my first time through to let the sh*t hit the fan and play out as it will, really makes the whole "your choices have consequences" idea work much better.

I agree with this post. There's something about breaking down a game, but there's also something about letting things just happen as though it's just bad luck or a bad decision. Once you know how it works, you can't put that genie back in the bottle, so it's a one time thing.

Can somebody spoil for me the former squad mate in the rescue the school mission was, I missed that one because I went to e citadel too early (didn't realize what was going to happen)

rickyyo wrote:

I was not able to import my character over. I seem to have tried everything on the boards at Bioware. I think I'll just roll a new character and I assume I can pick decisions.

I couldn't get mine to import either. I ended up downloading a similar one from masseffect saves, then altering a few plot choices and the character name with Gibbed's Save Editor. This imported fine, except for the face, which I was able to manually reconstruct close enough to my old FemShep. (If you squint, she looks about right!)

Good luck.

Luggage wrote:

Also make sure to start the planet scanning as early as possible. The awareness levels in the Reaper-infested systems resets after every mission, meaning unless you want to save-load exploit, you'll need more than one sweep of most systems to find everything. The other advantage is finding plenty of credits, upgrades and even quest starting artifacts that way.

Eh I'm finding it fairly easy to still scan and check planets even with the reaper alert maxed. You just dodge them for a big while you ping, exit/enter the system, they come in from their spots again. It's kinda laughable I haven't been caught yet. I just ping like a madman until I'm done. They don't catch you when you're docked at a planet or other anomaly.

Crimeny wrote:

I experienced an odd bug on a Citadel quest last night. Without spoiling too much, the quest involves spying on a Hanar in the embassy. Eventually I got to a point where I had to access a control panel outside the Hanar's office. I used the control point, watched the cut scene and then... nothing happened. The control panel was still pinged as a point of interest, but clicking on it did nothing. The quest was still in my journal but I couldn't find anyway to advance it any more.

What made it more annoying was whenever I moved to another floor on the Citadel, the location of the control panel was still pinged on my UI (usually in either the ceiling or floor, waaaaaaaay out of reach). After searching the entire Citadel for any way to advance the quest thread (which I really wanted because of the interactions with a past character), I gave up and moved on to another mission. Now when I return to the Citadel the node is gone and I have no clue how resume this broken quest.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Yep saw tons of posts about this mission on gamefaqs last night. The way it's supposed to play out is that there are 3 different panels, at different places on the citadel. You check your map and a new panel has appeared and will be marked on a different floor. Some people are reporting the quest broken, but it worked fine for me, although it was a little frustrating trying to find the next spot when I didn't realize it would be on a different floor. Stumped me for a minute.

Stele wrote:

Yep saw tons of posts about this mission on gamefaqs last night. The way it's supposed to play out is that there are 3 different panels, at different places on the citadel. You check your map and a new panel has appeared and will be marked on a different floor. Some people are reporting the quest broken, but it worked fine for me, although it was a little frustrating trying to find the next spot when I didn't realize it would be on a different floor. Stumped me for a minute.

Huh. I'll have to give the Citadel another sweep then. Hope I didn't miss the chance to finish this quest.

Thank you for the answers!

Kamakazi010654 wrote:

Can somebody spoil for me the former squad mate in the rescue the school mission was, I missed that one because I went to e citadel too early (didn't realize what was going to happen)

I don't know for certain (because I missed it), but I think it's guessable based on clues from ME1 and ME2, combined with the name of the institute.

My guess:

Spoiler:

Jack

I think missing things is part of the game though. The f'ing reapers are in your base and killing your dudes. It loses something when you presciently know exactly what to do to avoid all losses. You need losses that hurt to feel the positives when you save something.

Scratched wrote:
MojoBox wrote:

I'm sure after a playthrough or two the exact timing mechanisms will become more obvious to me and be way easier to game (exactly like the Suicide Mission in ME2) but the first time through I really appreciate not knowing. I prefer my first time through to let the sh*t hit the fan and play out as it will, really makes the whole "your choices have consequences" idea work much better.

I agree with this post. There's something about breaking down a game, but there's also something about letting things just happen as though it's just bad luck or a bad decision. Once you know how it works, you can't put that genie back in the bottle, so it's a one time thing.

While I agree with not "Wiki"ing a game to death, I have a low tolerance for hidden timers and fail criteria of games that require a 30+ hour time investment for a single playthrough.

Scratched wrote:
Kamakazi010654 wrote:

Can somebody spoil for me the former squad mate in the rescue the school mission was, I missed that one because I went to e citadel too early (didn't realize what was going to happen)

I don't know for certain (because I missed it), but I think it's guessable based on clues from ME1 and ME2, combined with the name of the institute.

My guess:

Spoiler:

Jack

I think missing things is part of the game though. The f'ing reapers are in your base and killing your dudes. It loses something when you presciently know exactly what to do to avoid all losses. You need losses that hurt to feel the positives when you save something.

Good guess.

And they also show up later on the Citadel for a nice talk later. Obviously I'm not done with the game, so not sure if there's more.

Luggage wrote:

While I agree with not "Wiki"ing a game to death, I have a low tolerance for hidden timers and fail criteria of games that require a 30+ hour time investment for a single playthrough.

I just don't see why though, it's not like you fail the game and get a gameover and have to reload, you just get a different story. And that story reflects what you as the player did, I see that as nothing but a good thing. But to each their own.

More pointedly, I think these sorts of mechanics are the only way to progress towards more interactive narrative in games.

MojoBox wrote:

More pointedly, I think these sorts of mechanics are the only way to progress towards more interactive narrative in games.

Well said. These types of games you don't necessarily need to "win".

MojoBox wrote:
Luggage wrote:

While I agree with not "Wiki"ing a game to death, I have a low tolerance for hidden timers and fail criteria of games that require a 30+ hour time investment for a single playthrough.

I just don't see why though, it's not like you fail the game and get a gameover and have to reload, you just get a different story. And that story reflects what you as the player did, I see that as nothing but a good thing. But to each their own.

More pointedly, I think these sorts of mechanics are the only way to progress towards more interactive narrative in games.

It's about time investment. If I invest up to 5 hours, I am perfectly fine with consuming the creator's vision. If I invest a couple dozen hours, I don't want to feel cheated at the end. I am not talking about having people die or not getting the best endings. I am talking about hidden mechanics. And I mean truly hidden, not just stuff that's not tutorialized but can be found in the manual. Basically everything that would require me to play a game with a strong narrative twice to be able to take the path I actually wanted.

Examples:
Missing the conversational cue to move in for some sexy time with Tali -> acceptable.
Missing the opportunity to prevent a race from genocide because I dared to to pick up a squad mate on my way there -> not acceptable.

Live with the consequences of your actions, Commander Shephard ;P

Crimeny wrote:
Stele wrote:

Yep saw tons of posts about this mission on gamefaqs last night. The way it's supposed to play out is that there are 3 different panels, at different places on the citadel. You check your map and a new panel has appeared and will be marked on a different floor. Some people are reporting the quest broken, but it worked fine for me, although it was a little frustrating trying to find the next spot when I didn't realize it would be on a different floor. Stumped me for a minute.

Huh. I'll have to give the Citadel another sweep then. Hope I didn't miss the chance to finish this quest.

Thank you for the answers!

I got one of the panels stuck on my HUD until I reloaded, so it is a little buggy. The big problem is the quest description, which clearly says you're supposed to be looking for panels in the Citadel Embassies section.

Luggage wrote:

If I invest a couple dozen hours, I don't want to feel cheated at the end. I am not talking about having people die or not getting the best endings. I am talking about hidden mechanics. And I mean truly hidden, not just stuff that's not tutorialized but can be found in the manual. Basically everything that would require me to play a game with a strong narrative twice to be able to take the path I actually wanted.

But those mechanics are methods for telling story. In real life, you don't have definitive things that provide you a guaranteed outcome for all life systems, otherwise we'd all be stock market rich.

Okay, is it just me or when you're sitting at the main menu, is the ME1 'Vigil' music (ME1's main menu, and when you meet Vigil on Ilos) very faintly in the background behind all the hum.

Yeah but... I'm not playing real life. I'm living it. I paid $60 for this game, and by god, I want every ounce of content I can get out of it.

The difference between telling me a static story and playing a game like this is that I should be crafting the story I want, not the game. When you hide expiration timers or expiration points from me, I feel like I'm not being given the best chance to craft the story I want.

Sure, there are design problems when you end up with gamers who might mistake a timer for a true failure point when it just means, "Oh well, you didn't get to do that side quest, no big deal," but really, I would like some kind of indicator that I could maybe turn on and off if I so choose.

MannishBoy wrote:
Luggage wrote:

If I invest a couple dozen hours, I don't want to feel cheated at the end. I am not talking about having people die or not getting the best endings. I am talking about hidden mechanics. And I mean truly hidden, not just stuff that's not tutorialized but can be found in the manual. Basically everything that would require me to play a game with a strong narrative twice to be able to take the path I actually wanted.

But those mechanics are methods for telling story. In real life, you don't have definitive things that provide you a guaranteed outcome for all life systems, otherwise we'd all be stock market rich.

This is how I'm looking at it. Things are getting messy, but good stories always are. Since there's no Mass Effect 4 I'm not too worried about getting a less-than-perfect playthrough, especially on my first time through.

NSMike, I can see where you're coming from but most of these sidequests have much content in them. You overhear a conversation. You scan a planet. You talk to the guy you overheard. You get a little reward. That's it. It's not like you're going to miss out on an entire planet or something, and whenever you miss out on a material reward like a gun or a mod, it shows up in the Citadel shops.

LobsterMobster wrote:

I got one of the panels stuck on my HUD until I reloaded, so it is a little buggy. The big problem is the quest description, which clearly says you're supposed to be looking for panels in the Citadel Embassies section.

I agree. The quest description in the journal updated very fluidly in the previous two games. It feels weird that that fluid progression was completely abandoned in this game.

Ah, well, that kind of stuff I can live with missing. I'm just worried about missing story-ish missions.

In that case, why bother with mission timers or fail states at all? Just let the player decide which missions they want to do in which order.

If you tell the player "this mission will fail if you don't do it before this other mission" then they will always do it, so why even bother letting it fail?

MannishBoy wrote:
Luggage wrote:

If I invest a couple dozen hours, I don't want to feel cheated at the end. I am not talking about having people die or not getting the best endings. I am talking about hidden mechanics. And I mean truly hidden, not just stuff that's not tutorialized but can be found in the manual. Basically everything that would require me to play a game with a strong narrative twice to be able to take the path I actually wanted.

But those mechanics are methods for telling story. In real life, you don't have definitive things that provide you a guaranteed outcome for all life systems, otherwise we'd all be stock market rich.

As NSMike said, entertainment isn't real life. One of the core principles of a game is that all the mechanics are clear up front (and that can very well mean that it is brought to the players awareness, that there are hidden timers or random parameters). If they aren't, then there is no point of having me as an active participant or trying to get me invested into it, because for all I know, I could just be "playing a game with an unplugged controller".

Edit: To that point, it's a catch 22. Players have complained about the lack of urgency and RPG heroes going of to do the most menial tasks why the world/galaxy/universe is at stake. Problem is, this only bothers a certain percentage of the players. By hurrying them along and forcing critical decisions on them every turn they take, a developer may appeal to that group, but will in return alienate the explorers and completionists.
Again, as I said, in something like Heavy Rain, it's okay to have story changing decisions that force you down certain paths every couple minutes, because the whole game isn't that big of a time investment. But in the time it takes me to beat Mass Effect 2 once, I could play Heavy Rain 3-4 times.

Luggage wrote:

As NSMike said, entertainment isn't real life. One of the core principles of a game is that all the mechanics are clear up front (and that can very well mean that it is brought to the players awareness, that there are hidden timers or random parameters). If they aren't, then there is no point of having me as an active participant or trying to get me invested into it, because for all I know, I could just be "playing a game with an unplugged controller".

The game mechanics of ME are, for the most part, made very clear. The story mechanics are, by necessity, not. It's self defeating to let the player know exactly what the consequences of their decisions are. It's like cheating on a choose-your-own-adventure book. I mean, you CAN flip forward and scan for the optimal outcome, but doesn't that defeat the whole point?

And I don't understand your point about playing a game with an unplugged controller. Care to elaborate