Street Fighter x Tekken x Street Fighter Catch All.

1Dgaf wrote:

And, to comment on Lupus' point, how does one define 'not breaking stuff'? Are we talking balance in a single game? Over a hundred games? After one has had time to unlock a 'free' weapon that is a counter to the paid one?

You want to sell cosmetic stuff, stages, costumes, extra songs, go ahead. Don't f*ck with anything that affects the multiplayer experience.

I'm basically hoping they can manage to balance the DLC content. For me, not f'ing with the mutiplayer experience is roughly equivalent with not breaking the game. If someone is playing with a gem they bought that I don't have access to, that's fine as long as it's not the "I win" gem. Now, if it does get to the point where I'm losing every match because everyone else has the $5 gem Win, that would suck, and I would rightly be upset with how Capcom had conducted things.

We aren't there yet. And I'm hoping Capcom recognizes the dangers of doing so - not just in terms of game play but also in dollars and cents - enough to avoid that mistake. In all fairness, I'm not completely confident that they will be able to avoid the temptation, but for now I'm hopeful.

I think Ahrez has it with caution over buying. I'm not immune to the pull of these games, to making reasons for buying just as much as reasoning against. But, man, we've got to be careful and the more leeway we allow them - 'OK if it doesn't break etc.' - the easier it will be for things to get worse.

LupusUmbrus wrote:

edit: As an aside, I have to admit one of the reasons I'm excited about this title is the hope that they'll get it right the first time and not be releasing a Super Street Figher x Tekken 9 months later.

The reason I don't think there will be a Super Street Fighter x Tekken is Namco is going to be releasing a Tekken x Street Fighter after Street Fighter x Tekken is released and I think they need to get it right the first time and not release an updated version.

1Dgaf wrote:

The market has shown it will support their behaviour because the market is full of people that say:

"Not purchasing U. MvC 3 myself was not going to alter the way Capcom does business, because the market has proven to them that it will support their kind of behavior. All I would have been doing was denying myself the enjoyment I wanted to gain from the product."

;)

I would argue that the reason why the market does bare the products is because they get enough enjoyment out of the previous version, I don't think I am alone in this I got more than enough enjoyment out of MVC3 even though they released UMVC3 9 months later, Which was a bad decision. I would go as far to say I regret my purchase of Mortal Kombat and all the DLC more so than I do buying MVC3/UMVC3. I know I mentioned last time that I think Capcom values the customer because of how they foster the community around the fighting games, I won't argue that they make bad decisions or they like money. I understand your decision to rent Street Fighter x Tekken and I don't blame you, myself I am probably buying it because I really like what i've seen so far.

As an aside, I've just been told that one of my ideas was suggested to, and like by, the Skullgirls developer. It was for DLC characters to be available to everyone for training mode and as random select in adversarial. That way you get to play before you pay.

1Dgaf wrote:

As an aside, I've just been told that one of my ideas was suggested to, and like by, the Skullgirls developer. It was for DLC characters to be available to everyone for training mode and as random select in adversarial. That way you get to play before you pay.

That is a great idea and I am glad they took that suggestion, I can't wait for Skullgirls to come out actually capcom took something from skull girls with hold start to pause.

I like that idea too, great way to demo the characters.

Indeed my comment is a self-fulfilling prophecy, but what it comes down to is that I've spent the last 30 years trying to alter how other people think and act for the better of society, and what has it gotten me? I'm tired of monitoring my purchases in order to try and alter the way companies act, so now I just look at each product on its own in terms of value to me. Selfish it is, but I've earned the right to be selfish from time to time.

Glad you liked the idea. Now I'm trying to track down the show where I suggest a 'cut and paste' training mode. The idea is after you finish an online game, you save the replay (as you can do now). However, when you go into training mode you can select that match and actually replay it from any given point. So if you kept getting caught by a combo, just go back in and start playing from a moment before the combo hits and try different things. I think I suggested this in 2009; I'd never seen anything like it talked about before.

EDIT:

BTW the demo idea was a general tweet. SOmeone forwarded it.

I've been watching more videos and am getting more excited about the game. The SE has dropped in price now to just a few pounds above the regular edition. I checked the gem differences between the regular edition and the SE; there are quite a few, but apart from EX gems which are far better (and require two slots), most seem to be variations on a theme, particularly different activation conditions.

It's quite weird how I feel about this game. I want to play it, but I fear it'll come back and bite me on the arse. I want to play with the gems and try them out, but I'm not sure how much of a difference they'll really make. It's the first game that's tested my resolve not to buy things with weapon-DLC, on-disc content etc.

Capcom has confirmed that 12 characters will be available as DLC - amongst other things - but they also say there won't be another SFxT disc release, which is something that annoyed me about UVMC3. Oh and the early order gems will be available for purchase too.

I decided not to buy it; I don't want to support Capcom turning competition into a way to make money by selling gems. (People saying they're balanced are missing the point.)

It increasing looks like all the extra content for the Vita version - 12 characters - are already on the disc. Along with multiple costumes and gems. Presumably all this will be DLC.

I'm waiting for the Vita version since they announced the 12 extra characters. I'm 100% sure those will be for-pay DLC on the consoles when the Vita version lands.

Capcom have been taking down videos that show the 'DLC' characters being played from the disc; Leo, Bryan, Blanka etc.

When will these people learn that it's bad business to mislead customers and it's worse to try and hide things afterwards?

Capcom has issued an explanation as to why the characters are on the disc already.

The part I find noteworthy is the reminder that this is the only disc version people will ever need to buy. So Capcom is promising that there won't be a "Super" version of SF x Tekken. I'll believe it when 2013 passes without another disc release of the game, but if they come through on that promise I'll have some faith in them renewed. Now I just want confirmation on whether or not the DLC will be cross-platform on Sony systems, like it is for Ultimate MvC 3.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying that explanation. Some where, some time people just need to open their eyes and accept that we ARE possibly being lied too. I'm buying this in the used bin a year from now. I just cannot support this type of behavior.

ahrezmendi wrote:

Capcom has issued an explanation as to why the characters are on the disc already.

The part I find noteworthy is the reminder that this is the only disc version people will ever need to buy. So Capcom is promising that there won't be a "Super" version of SF x Tekken. I'll believe it when 2013 passes without another disc release of the game, but if they come through on that promise I'll have some faith in them renewed. Now I just want confirmation on whether or not the DLC will be cross-platform on Sony systems, like it is for Ultimate MvC 3.

I think there will be a super version but it will be like the arcade version of SF4 where the DLC is all in one compliation. either way i pick this up tomorrow and I can't wait.

The explanation is nonsense. Notice how they only give it now, once sh*t has hit the fan. Also that it doesn't deny the characters are complete. But it says, read between the lines, the Vita version will be complete but the characters are 'DLC' for consoles.

Before now they were happy to evade questions and have Ono troll people with facile Twitter remarks. And, considering so much stuff has been found on the discs, what proper DLC are they retiring to?

Also, the only disc version people need to buy is not the same as saying there won't be another disc / complete version. Just that they will work together. I think it will be a long time before your faith is renewed.

Capcom haven't done enough to earn trust again from consumers.

Ugh, I forgot about the 6 button control scheme. That's going to be problematic on Vita.

1Dgaf wrote:

Capcom haven't done enough to earn trust again from consumers.

I feel they haven't lost it fully, They do screw up but I think the quality of their games more than make up for it. Besides sales will determine everything. If it doesn't sell, they will change what they do.

I guess I'm waiting for the Ultimate unlocked version or wait until the price drops to something more appealing. I just can't justify buying another one of their games at full price knowing it's intentionally incomplete.

Lothar wrote:

Besides sales will determine everything. If it doesn't sell, they will change what they do.

Presumably you don't care if they change, since you are buying the game. I don't always agree with that policy, but I'm trying to understand your position.

1Dgaf wrote:
Lothar wrote:

Besides sales will determine everything. If it doesn't sell, they will change what they do.

Presumably you don't care if they change, since you are buying the game. I don't always agree with that policy, but I'm trying to understand your position.

He's pointing out the distinction between "Capcom has lost MY trust" and "Capcom has lost CONSUMERS trust". You are frustrated by what Capcom is doing, and you're not alone, but the sales will reveal exactly how many people feel that way. I suspect that most of their regular buyers are not peeved at them, and will be buying the game (possibly 2 or 3 copies of it).

I watched the GT review, and I'm disappointed at the lack of single player content. Games like BlazBlue have shown that you can have great multiplayer AND a ton of single player modes (BlazeBlue Extend has 6 or 7 distinct single player modes, and the best tutorial/practice mode I've ever seen). It's nice that it has Super SF4 lobbies and multiplayer, but a time attack, score attack, or other single player modes wouldn't have hurt. Also, multiplayer sound glitches? *sigh*

1Dgaf wrote:
Lothar wrote:

Besides sales will determine everything. If it doesn't sell, they will change what they do.

Presumably you don't care if they change, since you are buying the game. I don't always agree with that policy, but I'm trying to understand your position.

I feel that I get enough fun and value from the games that it's worth it to buy it now instead of next year. I don't have to buy the DLC to enjoy the game. It's the same with MVC3 and UMVC3, I got more than enough value from both of those to make it worthwhile and if SFxTekken equals that than I have no issue giving them my money. It would be different if the content was lacking or it was missing content but I don't feel it does.

Lothar

Content is missing - or rather it's inaccessible. That cannot be contested. Now, not enough content may be missing for you to get annoyed, but don't claim it isn't missing.

There's a lot of good discussion on GWJ and I can be sure that people are making informed decisions. I think that's the best I can hope for, even if I think some of the decisions are wrong.

Oh and please let's stop calling the f*cking stuff DLC. It isn't. We all need to train ourselves to use the right terms, because failing to do so helps the games companies mislead people.

1Dgaf wrote:

Lothar

Content is missing - or rather it's inaccessible. That cannot be contested. Now, not enough content may be missing for you to get annoyed, but don't claim it isn't missing.

There's a lot of good discussion on GWJ and I can be sure that people are making informed decisions. I think that's the best I can hope for, even if I think some of the decisions are wrong.

I don't feel the content is missing, I would still call this DLC because we don't have exact proof the characters are fully intact or mostly intact, if they are missing something like Shuma and Jill were in MVC3. I don't think I am making an uninformed decision but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I suggested you were making an informed decision. I questioned whether it was the right one.

Given all the gameplay videos of each character, them doing normals, supers, team attacks, they look complete to me. And if they weren't complete, I think Capcom would mention it.

I do believe it is time for many gamers to take a step back and look at the entire picture. There has been plenty of occasions where a developers decisions on how they handle DLC, has been questioned. Like 1Dgaf says, there are plenty of gameplay vids of all these "DLC" characters performing complete moves. I can understand if something like this happend on occasion, but it's a common occurance nowadays, developers are caught with content on disk, people point fingures and all the Devs have to say is "Well the DLC is an incomplete format, but on the disk to save on Install times or patch difficulty's", then people just throw their money at them.

I love the fact that the peoples outcry has been getting larger over the past few years, I just think it's time people start taking a stance with not only their mouths, but their money as well. After all, it will not stop and only get worse untill the game industry actually see's a financial hit from the outcry. The only people I trust in my life are a few friends and my family, and while I love games and the devopers that create them, I trust them about as far as I can throw em. Remember, company's don't care about you untill they need money, don't fool yourselves otherwise.

If you're going to get this game, get it on PS3. You can't have two offline players in an offline match on 360. So if a friend comes round and you want to play tag team and go online, you'll have to take turns with the controller. Capcom have said they can't patch it. It doesn't matter if you both have gold accounts.

"360 version: It is NOT possible to mix and match online and offline players for scramble battles and pair play battles. So you either have to have all players be offline and local (so 4 players, 1 xbox) or have all the players be online (4 players, 4 xboxs).”

http://shoryuken.com/2012/03/06/sf-x...

Game on, gents! Hit my up on XBL (Magmarok GWJ). Went to a midnight launch at Gamestop last night and played around with some friends until about 2. I haven't played much SFIV, so it's all new to me, but it feels really good. Took Rolento out for a spin, and good god, he is rolentless.

That sucks! I cannot say I'm surprised though, this isn't the first time this issue with Xbox Live has come up. I ran into it with Castle Crashers, and even Halo before that. Microsoft just doesn't let you mix and match multiple local players with online, and I honestly can't understand why. It would be so simple to just make sure both local accounts are Gold.

Well, that certainly does make which platform an easier decision. I pre-ordered the Vita version, but may swap if I decide a 6 button scheme is too much for pad.

1Dgaf wrote:

Content is missing - or rather it's inaccessible. That cannot be contested. Now, not enough content may be missing for you to get annoyed, but don't claim it isn't missing.

The Conformist wrote:

I do believe it is time for many gamers to take a step back and look at the entire picture. There has been plenty of occasions where a developers decisions on how they handle DLC, has been questioned. Like 1Dgaf says, there are plenty of gameplay vids of all these "DLC" characters performing complete moves. I can understand if something like this happend on occasion, but it's a common occurance nowadays, developers are caught with content on disk, people point fingures and all the Devs have to say is "Well the DLC is an incomplete format, but on the disk to save on Install times or patch difficulty's", then people just throw their money at them.

I love the fact that the peoples outcry has been getting larger over the past few years, I just think it's time people start taking a stance with not only their mouths, but their money as well. After all, it will not stop and only get worse untill the game industry actually see's a financial hit from the outcry. The only people I trust in my life are a few friends and my family, and while I love games and the devopers that create them, I trust them about as far as I can throw em. Remember, company's don't care about you untill they need money, don't fool yourselves otherwise.

Are you mad because you know the content is there, and you just can't access it? What about the locked-out content that has been subsequently discovered in games like Final Fantasy 7, or Baldur's Gate. Are you mad that content was locked out? Or are you just mad that Capcom has been honest about planning to have additional content for an additional charge?

Capcom has done nothing except be straightforward about their plans for continued revenue with this product. You don't have to like their plans, and by all means boycott the product if you want, but it's absolutely silly to think that just because the content is on the disc means you have a right to access it. It strikes me as a huge sense of entitlement, and it clouds the fact that Capcom is offering a HUGE amount of content already. For crying out loud, the game offers you 38 playable characters, full online lobbies, 4 player matches, and more. It's more content than has been offered in a core (i.e. non-Super) game from Capcom ever, and you guys are whining about 12 characters they're going to offer as DLC?!?!? Are you freaking kidding me?

1Dgaf wrote:

If you're going to get this game, get it on PS3. You can't have two offline players in an offline match on 360. So if a friend comes round and you want to play tag team and go online, you'll have to take turns with the controller. Capcom have said they can't patch it. It doesn't matter if you both have gold accounts.

"360 version: It is NOT possible to mix and match online and offline players for scramble battles and pair play battles. So you either have to have all players be offline and local (so 4 players, 1 xbox) or have all the players be online (4 players, 4 xboxs).”

http://shoryuken.com/2012/03/06/sf-x...

That's good info. Add to that the five additional characters on the PS3 (disposable sounding or not) and I think it's a deal-sealer. I'd hate to be off of XBLA but fighting games aren't really my online go-to anyway. Still on the fence about this game -- I want it, but I feel the final cost might be too great. Re: the pre-order gems: anyone know if that stuff is unlockable on disc or if it's all something that will have to be purchased through a marketplace? I'm not enough of a fighting game aficionado to fork out ~$120 over the life of a game to add content to it; I mainly play against friends in my living room and none of us are "masters" in the genre.