Assassin's Creed 3 Catch-All

Well yeah, a few did. Some did not. It was a complicated situation and, in many ways, a no-win situation. The point is that they need to be cautious about the 'America, f*ck yeah!' factor when incorporating aboriginal iconography.

Thin_J wrote:
4xis.black wrote:

The image of a British soldier being murdered with what appears to be a tomahawk seemingly in support of the American revolution makes me extremely uncomfortable.

I'm not sure I get why. The image is no different than any number of other kills pulled off by Altair or Ezio in any of the other Assassin's Creed games.

I'm not sure I fully get it either, to be honest.

There are a few tangible problems I can identify. One that the image frames Europe's contact with aboriginal societies in terms of those brief periods of military cooperation when they were largely a neutral party and, in retrospect, we know that neither the British nor the revolutionaries nor really anyone else would prove themselves friends to the aboriginals. Secondly, I don't know a whole lot about the American revolution (I'm from Canada) but my understanding is that those few aboriginal groups who DID participate in the war tended to side with the British.

So while I doubt many people will have a problem with someone burying a tomahawk in a redcoat's skull, I find it equally likely that fellow would want to bury it in a continental soldier's.

My prediction is that the actual game will place Assassins and Templars on both sides of the conflict doing their usual string-pulling stuff, and that IF the storyline has anything to do with aboriginals it will place those parties in a neutral position and generally handle things with the appropriate care.

That said, it, uh, would not surprise me if the game's box art comes in multiple flavors.

I should also point out that the revolutionary war included a brief incursion by the future Americans into Quebec (including Montreal, which is where this game is being made). You may be aware that we Canadians relish our handful of military victories over the United States (even if they were technically won by the British Empire). I will be disappointed if Ubi Montreal doesn't have a bit of fun with that.

4xis.black wrote:

Well yeah, a few did. Some did not. It was a complicated situation and, in many ways, a no-win situation. The point is that they need to be cautious about the 'America, f*ck yeah!' factor when incorporating aboriginal iconography.

I'm with you on that.

Also, even if you say the American Revolution is underutilized as a game setting the American Myth absolutely saturates modern western storytelling to the point it gets really boring for foreigners. The Assassins have always been portrayed as transcending nations though so I remain cautiously optimistic.

I don't doubt the setting has promise, and I actually quite like the story of the American Revolution, I'm just flinching a little because (a) as 4xis said, you want to be really careful you don't go making a native American avatar into saviour of the Republic and (b) the underlying story of Assassin's Creed already so closely follows the boilerplate American Myth template of the plucky underdogs gaining their freedom from oppression that it has the potential to get a little much for my taste.

Maq wrote:
4xis.black wrote:

Well yeah, a few did. Some did not. It was a complicated situation and, in many ways, a no-win situation. The point is that they need to be cautious about the 'America, f*ck yeah!' factor when incorporating aboriginal iconography.

I'm with you on that.

Also, even if you say the American Revolution is underutilized as a game setting the American Myth absolutely saturates modern western storytelling to the point it gets really boring for foreigners. The Assassins have always been portrayed as transcending nations though so I remain cautiously optimistic.

I, being a bloody yank, am also with you. But AC has always been rather ambivalent about America--Thomas Edison and Henry Ford are established Templars, as well as several currently serving Supreme Court Justices. My assumption is that this new Assassin is half native--his father is likely a French trapper, his mother of the Iriquois nation. There's rich tension in that, and I hope that's included. Tecumseh would be in the Ohio valley at the time, and could show up. Red Cloud would be pushing it, but I'd love to see him.

And I can also see how the period may be personally boring to non-Americans, if AC:R proved one thing, it's that personally, the more familiar I am with the setting, the stronger my response will be. Also, whatever anyone's feelings, there's no denying that the American Revolution is a key event in the modern age, teeming with fascinating figures.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
Maq wrote:
4xis.black wrote:

Well yeah, a few did. Some did not. It was a complicated situation and, in many ways, a no-win situation. The point is that they need to be cautious about the 'America, f*ck yeah!' factor when incorporating aboriginal iconography.

I'm with you on that.

Also, even if you say the American Revolution is underutilized as a game setting the American Myth absolutely saturates modern western storytelling to the point it gets really boring for foreigners. The Assassins have always been portrayed as transcending nations though so I remain cautiously optimistic.

I, being a bloody yank, am also with you. But AC has always been rather ambivalent about America--Thomas Edison and Henry Ford are established Templars, as well as several currently serving Supreme Court Justices.

And I can also see how the period may be personally boring to non-Americans, if AC:R proved one thing, it's that personally, the more familiar I am with the setting, the stronger my response will be. Also, whatever anyone's feelings, there's no denying that the American Revolution is a key event in the modern age, teeming with fascinating figures.

That might depend on who you ask. Most people I've met from outside the US or Canada don't consider it that important to the modern age. Even though the American Revolution came first, the French Revolution had a more immediate and profound effect on modern history. That's exactly why I hope AC3: Revolutions will take place in France during their revolution. It's arguably more impactful.

Maq wrote:

I don't doubt the setting has promise, and I actually quite like the story of the American Revolution, I'm just flinching a little because (a) as 4xis said, you want to be really careful you don't go making a native American avatar into saviour of the Republic and (b) the underlying story of Assassin's Creed already so closely follows the boilerplate American Myth template of the plucky underdogs gaining their freedom from oppression that it has the potential to get a little much for my taste.

Yeah, I truly do get that. At the same time, I hope you'd get why even an America hating intellectual liberal Downton-Over-NASCAR watching futbol loving hipster like myself would see that box art and say "f*ck. Yes."

That said, it's dangerous. And after AC:R, I'm not convinced they can pull it off, so I'm not going to say I have faith. But I do have hope.

Grubber788 wrote:

Most people I've met from outside the US or Canada don't consider it that important to the modern age. Even though the American Revolution came first, the French Revolution had a more immediate and profound effect on modern history. That's exactly why I hope AC3: Revolutions will take place in France during their revolution. It's arguably more impactful.

I'd argue with those people that the American and French Revolutions are the yin and yang of the same forces and movements, and it's silly to argue one is more important than the other, because they both are--not to get all defensive, but I said earlier in this thread that either would make me happy. So, Hell Yes, I'd love for AC3: Brotherhood to be the French Revolution. I'm just really relieved it's not well walked ground like Japan, to be honest.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
Grubber788 wrote:

Most people I've met from outside the US or Canada don't consider it that important to the modern age. Even though the American Revolution came first, the French Revolution had a more immediate and profound effect on modern history. That's exactly why I hope AC3: Revolutions will take place in France during their revolution. It's arguably more impactful.

I'd argue with those people that the American and French Revolutions are the yin and yang of the same forces and movements, and it's silly to argue one is more important than the other, because they both are--not to get all defensive, but I said earlier in this thread that either would make me happy. So, Hell Yes, I'd love for AC3: Brotherhood to be the French Revolution. I'm just really relieved it's not well walked ground like Japan, to be honest.

Amen to that. "Samurai Swords! Bushido! Ninjas!" doesn't do it for me.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I'd argue with those people that the American and French Revolutions are the yin and yang of the same forces and movements, and it's silly to argue one is more important than the other, because they both are--not to get all defensive, but I said earlier in this thread that either would make me happy. So, Hell Yes, I'd love for AC3: Brotherhood to be the French Revolution. I'm just really relieved it's not well walked ground like Japan, to be honest.

I don't think the American and French revolutions have that much in common. The American Revolution was A.N.Other war for self-determination - notable only for the fact that it was the birthing cry of one of the world's current superpowers. The French Revolution was a social war that massively shifted the political structures of Europe and founded the whole concept of Nationhood.

Now the fact that the US Founders drew heavily on the ideals of the Enlightenment certainly marks the American Revolution as drawing its inspiration from the French, but were the French Revolution not to happen I suspect the American Revolution would have happened anyway, it's just the Declaration of Independence would have not used the words "liberty" and "equality" so much.

All that said - I think the Assassin's Creed series definitely taps into that Enlightenment vein and so could find a lot to work with in that setting. I can also see the sales benefit of flying the ol' Betsy Ross and plunging an axe into a Redcoat (hell, as a colonial myself I'm all for that). My only hope is that it sticks to that Enlightenment theme and doesn't go off on some Two If By Sea bullsh*t.

Didn't the American Revolution happen before the French Revolution?

Fair call, I'm conflating the Enlightenment and the French Revolution a little too much here. My point is that the American Revolution wasn't born of the Enlightenment, it was a war of colonial self-determination that drew its rhetoric from the Enlightenment.

Wasn't everyone freaking out about the original AC being set in the holy land? It's ridiculous, it's pre-emptive freaking out in case someone freaks out

:O

These shots look fantastic and I am really excited about this setting! Tree climbing!!

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/zfRML.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/XswPc.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Wwfnk.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/01J2Q.jpg)
IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/Liea9.jpg)

Interesting. The natural environments may weaken one of the key gameplay elements I've always enjoyed - blending in with the crowd. It's hard to murder someone from a bench or from a group of shoppers if you're somewhere in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Also, rain!

I'm on board with the idea of them opening things up so it's a little more Red Dead Redemption in terms of having out-of-town areas to explore. I'm assuming they can do it better than they did with Assassin's Creed 1.

Got to say that robe doesn't really fit in very well. Seems like a great way to draw attention to oneself.

I'm kind of neutral about the revolutionary setting, but it seems like there won't be a whole lot to climb around on (other than trees).

I really, really hope that the follow-up to AC3 involves this assassin's kid in the 1800's, hanging out with Tesla and Twain in New York. It could happen!

*drool*

Those shots look pretty stellar. There really is an RDR vibe... game hunting and all.

GAF has the details: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35655452&postcount=1

Some points that stood out to me:

-A new traversal approach that has players leaping and climbing trees and mountain cliffs.
-Uses a new version of the Anvil engine that can "depict thousands of troops engaged in bloody battle" along with highly detailed face close-ups. They later imply that if they used version numbers, they would be like going from Anvil 1.0 -> Anvil 2.0 or something of that nature.
-The main character has thousands of new and unique animations (no carry over from other titles) to support the new combat system.
-You can hunt animals for resources, and how you kill them effects your reward. A one hit kill on a bear gets you a much more valuable pelt than stabbing it eight times.
-The entire world will change with seasons, so the cities and the wilderness will all exist in both Summer and Winter settings.
-In the winter, soldiers will move slowly and stumble about in the snow, and lakes and rivers will freeze over allowing you new terrain to work with. This gives Connor an extra advantage since he can still use the trees and wilderness pretty effectively during this time of year.
-You can upgrade Connor's gear and costume as the game goes on in an attempt to make it feel more authentic.
-There are around 2.5 hours of character scenes in the game that are fully acted and recorded. They mean this in Naughty Dog style where they have the actors being mocaped while performing on a set that resembles the scene in the game.
-They're aiming for accuracy by having historical dialog consultants and actual Native American actors.

Wow this sounds amazing!

LobsterMobster wrote:

I really, really hope that the follow-up to AC3 involves this assassin's kid in the 1800's, hanging out with Tesla and Twain in New York. It could happen!

Enough with the New York already (I kid It'd be a brilliant setting. AC3.2 mb?)

The game looks fantastic. That cover is superb, even if he is about to kill one of my fellow countrymen. I don't see that the English should be exempt from getting an axe to the temple when it's been happening to many other nationalities: Italians, Germans, etc in the other games.

One good thing is that, as far as I know, the game isn't being made in America so it should avoid too much jingoism. I hope the game is fairly neutral on the politics of the whole thing. They've been pretty good with that in the past.

I've always had an affection for the American Indian and, by extension, any game play involving bows and arrows (at primary school it was regularly just me, a lone Indian, facing down charging ranks of tiny, horse-less cavalry men. Thank heavens for semiautomatic bows (for a brief time there were two of us but only because another lad had found a pheasant feather on his holidays)) so this looks right up my street.

I've even been thinking recently that I'd love a shooter where all sides were armed with bows and/or flintlocks. This might be as close as I'll get.

As much as I liked the previous games, the renaissance urban environments were starting to get a bit same-y and tiring. This seems like a genuinely interesting new direction.

Holy crap.

I really hope they don't have 'played for comedy' regional British accents. Fable has a lot to answer for.

.

Higgledy wrote:

I hope the game is fairly neutral on the politics of the whole thing. They've been pretty good with that in the past.

Soooo....boxing with the pope isn't political?

Higgledy wrote:

I really hope they don't have 'played for comedy' regional British accents. Fable has a lot to answer for.

Wot's that guvnah? Are yew 'avin' a laff?

nel e nel wrote:
Higgledy wrote:

I hope the game is fairly neutral on the politics of the whole thing. They've been pretty good with that in the past.

Soooo....boxing with the pope isn't political?

I've been reconsidering that statement ever since I typed it.

nel e nel wrote:
Higgledy wrote:

I really hope they don't have 'played for comedy' regional British accents. Fable has a lot to answer for.

Wot's that guvnah? Are yew 'avin' a laff?

That's the sort of thing. Painful (for me at any rate.)

Listening to Weekend Confirmed I heard Geoff Cannata (two 'n's one 't') suggest that the tomahawk the character was wielding implied possible Indian ancestry. That would make a lot of sense. It would free him up to be an unbiased agent who can happily assassinate people on both sides of the conflict.

Can't believe no one has mentioned this yet, but, um... everyone has guns. So no sword fighting any more?

There is a ton of info in the link I posted:

-New hero called Connor/Ratohnhake:ton (pronounced Ra-doon-ha-gay-doo). He has an English father and Native American mother.
-"It's not just going to a historical building now; it's going to a historical event."
-"You will visit these places in the moment that they were important, and hopefully, experience the reason why we know where they are today. That's the goal."
-Not all the Colonists will be cast as good people, and not all the British will be cast as evil oppressors.
-They're aiming for accuracy by having historical dialog consultants and actual Native American actors.

I think this looks awesome, and I would buy one of those tomahawks.

BlackSabre wrote:

Can't believe no one has mentioned this yet, but, um... everyone has guns. So no sword fighting any more?

I think the guns were inefficient enough in that period to allow for some hand to hand combat. I guess swords weren't used a lot. It could be more bayonets, knives or tomahawks?