2012 MLB Season Discussion: Off-Season

TheGameguru wrote:

We will agree to disagree.. any managerial job in MLB is pressure filled..

Not the Cubs...

TheGameguru wrote:

We will agree to disagree.. any managerial job in MLB is pressure filled.. but to truly believe managing the Mets is equal to the Yankees and the Red Sox in terms of pressure.. I'm kinda stunned that people believe that. I'm basing my opinion from talking to baseball people but maybe they are wrong as well.

It's not that stunning if you've lived around New York. Tune in 660 AM WFAN and listen for a week during the heart of baseball season. Mets fans are just as vocal as Yankees fans.

The thing that pisses me off about most young Yankees fans is that they think the worst thing a fan could have gone through is losing a 7-game series after holding a 3-0 series lead. Try going through a 100-loss season. The older generation Yankees fans know what it's like to actually suffer as a baseball fan.

Jayhawker wrote:

Not the Cubs...

+1

Kush15 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

We will agree to disagree.. any managerial job in MLB is pressure filled.. but to truly believe managing the Mets is equal to the Yankees and the Red Sox in terms of pressure.. I'm kinda stunned that people believe that. I'm basing my opinion from talking to baseball people but maybe they are wrong as well.

It's not that stunning if you've lived around New York. Tune in 660 AM WFAN and listen for a week during the heart of baseball season. Mets fans are just as vocal as Yankees fans.

The thing that pisses me off about most young Yankees fans is that they think the worst thing a fan could have gone through is losing a 7-game series after holding a 3-0 series lead. Try going through a 100-loss season. The older generation Yankees fans know what it's like to actually suffer as a baseball fan.

Jayhawker wrote:

Not the Cubs...

+1

I think the Wilpons are doing their part to make this happen.

Tanglebones wrote:

I think the Wilpons are doing their part to make this happen.

+1

Fred badmouthed Beltran, Reyes and Wright. 2/3 of that group are now gone, leaving David Wright as the only person really worth a damn on the Mets. I highly doubt Wright will re-up with the Mets when his contract ends, I do hope he makes his way down to Philadelphia.

fanbase is only part of what makes a MLB job more pressure filled than others.. there are a variety of other factors as well..

I'd imagine the difference in pressure between being the Red Sox, Mets, or Yankees manager would be inconsequential.

ChrisLTD wrote:

I'd imagine the difference in pressure between being the Red Sox, Mets, or Yankees manager would be inconsequential.

The media that the New York Mets face is pretty much identical to the media that the New York Yankees face; at various times over the last 30 years, the Mets have been the dominant team in NYC, outdrawing the Yankees drastically in the 80s and parts of the early 90s.

I'm not connected with baseball people at that level, but I would have to imagine that by the time they reach manager status those guys are fairly adept at tuning out media criticism. I'm not saying they ignore it completely, but I do think professional managers at any level put the bulk of the pressure they experience on themselves. They know it's their job to win, they are hyper competitive, and they care a ton about winning regardless of the team they're managing. I don't think anyone would hire them as managers if they didn't possess those characteristics.
Am I way off base in my assumptions do you think?

Phishposer wrote:

Am I way off base in my assumptions do you think?

Usually, that's a safe bet.

TheGameguru wrote:

fanbase is only part of what makes a MLB job more pressure filled than others.. there are a variety of other factors as well..

Tanglebones wrote:

The media that the New York Mets face is pretty much identical to the media that the New York Yankees face; at various times over the last 30 years, the Mets have been the dominant team in NYC, outdrawing the Yankees drastically in the 80s and parts of the early 90s.

Aside from Fanbase and Media, which Tanglebones pointed out, what's left? Ownership? Mets haven't won a WS since '86, trust me, pressure's there too, thus, no manager longer than 2 seasons.

It's New York, it high pressure for both the Yankees and the Mets.

It's not worth discussing.. clearly I have an opinion formed from my circle of influence.. others have their own opinions. I saw some references to the 80's and 90's and I'm now done with the discussion.. that's now 20 years ago..the money and pressure from various revenue streams as well as outside influences that really didn't exist back then (or at least were in their infancy) makes me believe that people want to believe what they believe and thats that.

edit.

To be clear..never did I say managing the Mets "wasn't" pressure filled.. its probably way up there.. just not on the level of the Yankees and Red Sox.

Not sure where I mentioned the 80s, but ok.

I also take into account that the Mets organization has to constantly watch the team across town go to World Series after World Series. But we'll agree to disagree.

Kush15 wrote:

Not sure where I mentioned the 80s, but ok.

I also take into account that the Mets organization has to constantly watch the team across town go to World Series after World Series. But we'll agree to disagree.

I did mention the 80s and 90s, referring to times in recent history where the Mets have been the dominant team in New York sports.

Tanglebones wrote:

I did mention the 80s and 90s, referring to times in recent history where the Mets have been pond scum.

fTFY

TheGameguru wrote:

fanbase is only part of what makes a MLB job more pressure filled than others.. there are a variety of other factors as well..

Yeah, Jackie Macmullan and Dan Shaughnessy to name a few.

It's good to see players turning on Braun. Buster Olney has a great article on the fall out from Braun's appeal.

A shift in the players' view of PEDs

After a week of talking with players around baseball on background, and the agents and executives and managers who speak with them, this fact is evident: There are a lot of players who are furious about last week's decision.

"It's a joke," said one longtime National Leaguer.

"This really hurts," said one pitcher.

They are not mad at the fact that they are subject to drug testing. They aren't complaining about Big Brother. They aren't mad at Major League Baseball.

They are furious that a player who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs won by challenging the administration of his test rather than contesting the presence of synthetic testosterone in the urine. (Although we haven't seen the official written decision from the arbitrator.)

I'm guessing I've had 30 to 40 conversations with different folks around the sport, a small sample for sure. But a decade ago you might have found three or four players among those 40 who criticized a fellow player. Rather, the vast majority would've recited the strong words from their union meetings about their privacy rights, about the pitfalls of testing, about how any suggestion of drug testing by the owners was really designed to undermine their livelihood.

But if this recent straw poll of players is a proper reflection of the union as a whole, there has been a dramatic shift of thought among the brethren. I'm guessing 80 to 90 percent of the players I spoke with expressed dissatisfaction with the outcome of last week's case, in varying degrees. Some agents and executives say they've drawn the same responses in their conversations with players.

For a lot of the players -- most of whom have been subject to testing since they first played in professional baseball -- the peers who choose to take performance-enhancing drugs are viewed as a significant threat.

"I don't think anybody wants to be faced with the choice of either taking drugs or possibly losing their job," said one veteran. "If somebody cheats, that's a problem for all of us."

I'm still confused why Braun won his appeal? Is there a good article that discuss exactly why the test was invalidated?? My understanding was that the sample arrived 100% intact and with all the tamper seals (3 of them) intact. So unless the sample wasnt actually Brauns? Was that his case??

That argument played out almost exactly like the "NBA is irrelevant" argument from late last year.

Blind_Evil wrote:

That argument played out almost exactly like the "NBA is irrelevant" argument from late last year.

I have to remember that arguing on the Internet is largely pointless.. And the NBA is stiil awful...massive snooze fest.

And just to grind it in further...the NFL off-season thread will have more posts than the NBA season thread...not to mention Hockey and Baseball...

TheGameguru wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:

That argument played out almost exactly like the "NBA is irrelevant" argument from late last year.

I have to remember that arguing on the Internet is largely pointless.. And the NBA is stiil awful...massive snooze fest.

And just to grind it in further...the NFL off-season thread will have more posts than the NBA season thread...not to mention Hockey and Baseball...

I think you are forgetting Linsanity!

The NBA was relavent for about two whole weeks. And it was all because one player that wasn't supposed to be good, was.

TheGameguru wrote:

It's not worth discussing.. clearly I have an opinion formed from my circle of influence.. others have their own opinions.

Huh? What? Then why were you arguing/discussing in the first place if you were ever unwilling to shift your opinion.

TheGameguru wrote:

I have to remember that arguing on the Internet is largely pointless.

Only if you're unwilling to engage in honest debate, and perhaps even concede ground now and then.

TheGameguru wrote:

And the NBA is stiil awful...massive snooze fest.

That I can agree with. =P

TheGameguru wrote:

And the NBA is stiil awful...massive snooze fest.

Obviously I'll be outnumbered in this thread, but baseball, with double the games, and games that last a good 30-60 min longer than NBA games on average, takes the cake for most boring major sport in this country. And hockey is definitely 2nd, not basketball.

Baseball is really only interesting from Aug-Oct.

But the same can be said about the NBA and NHL. With so many games, it really only gets interesting in the month or so push for the playoffs.

Baseball takes the proper frame of mind to watch, I find..... it's nice and relaxing, but also quite cerebral if you want it to be.

In the spring I get whiplash channel-surfing between baseball and hockey.... one is lightning fast, the other quite measured and slow.


MLB expands playoff format from 8 teams to 10

Ugh, the 2 wild cards play one game? Hate it.

And they're adding a tie-breaker game for division winners. That part sounds cool.

Blind_Evil wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:

That argument played out almost exactly like the "NBA is irrelevant" argument from late last year.

I have to remember that arguing on the Internet is largely pointless.. And the NBA is stiil awful...massive snooze fest.

And just to grind it in further...the NFL off-season thread will have more posts than the NBA season thread...not to mention Hockey and Baseball...

I can't hear you over the constant quality NBA entertainment

I'm with you Stele. I have been a baseball first guy since like 6th grade, but as I've gotten older I find I don't have the will to care for 162 games.

Baseball and occasionally soccer are the only ones that can hold my interest, but I never really got into basketball or football as a kid.

TheGameguru wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:

That argument played out almost exactly like the "NBA is irrelevant" argument from late last year.

I have to remember that arguing on the Internet is largely pointless.. And the NBA is stiil awful...massive snooze fest.

And just to grind it in further...the NFL off-season thread will have more posts than the NBA season thread...not to mention Hockey and Baseball...

I can't hear you over the constant quality NBA entertainment

That's kind of my point, really. I beat the drum about baseball being relevant for so long. I don't even feel the need to bother with the NBA. I'm content to know I'm one of the few that knows what's up. No niggling desire for evangelism.

I'm with you Stele. I have been a baseball first guy since like 6th grade, but as I've gotten older I find I don't have the will to care for 162 games.

AndrewA wrote:

Baseball takes the proper frame of mind to watch, I find..... it's nice and relaxing, but also quite cerebral if you want it to be.

Yeah, I get this. And if you want to take that mindset to the next level, I think of baseball as the gateway drug for cricket. It's the same frame of mind and the appreciation of the small dramas and individual battles which engages your brain in a way that a lot of other sports don't.

Does anyone enjoy listening to a game on the radio as much as they do watching it on television? For the past 3-4 years (or ever since having kids), I've found the time to spend sitting and watching a game is rare. During that time, I've grown to like having the game on the radio. In fact, there are times I prefer it— spending +3hrs on a Saturday afternoon in the summer to watch a Sox vs. Yanks grinder on Fox is just downright asinine IMHO.

Plus, it helps having great announcers like Joe Castiglione and Dave O'Brien calling the sox games.

brouhaha wrote:

Does anyone enjoy listening to a game on the radio as much as they do watching it on television? For the past 3-4 years (or ever since having kids), I've found the time to spend sitting and watching a game is rare. During that time, I've grown to like having the game on the radio. In fact, there are times I prefer it— spending +3hrs on a Saturday afternoon in the summer to watch a Sox vs. Yanks grinder on Fox is just downright asinine IMHO.

Plus, it helps having great announcers like Joe Castiglione and Dave O'Brien calling the sox games.

Agreed. I think baseball is really the only game that translates well over the radio. I usually pickup MLB At Bat every year on the cellphone and I really enjoy listening to Yankees broadcasts. Yankees fan also get to listen to the comic ramblings of John Sterling and Susan Waldman. Beer + Waldman talking about balls = belly laughs.