NFL 2011-2012 Off-Season Pre-Draft Catch-All

Finley resigns with Pack for 2 years 15m.

Free to use franchise tag on another player.

jowner wrote:

Finley resigns with Pack for 2 years 15m.

Free to use franchise tag on another player.

I wonder if this is a prelude to tagging Matt Flynn in preparation for a trade to Miami. The discussion in Ask Vic has leaned towards that being a risky move.

Combine starts today, right? I'm not a fan of this part of the offseason, but at least there'll be some football talk again.

So far the two biggest stories have been Stanford Routt and Finley signing deals. Woo. Hoo.

garion333 wrote:

Combine starts today, right? I'm not a fan of this part of the offseason, but at least there'll be some football talk again.

So far the two biggest stories have been Stanford Routt and Finley signing deals. Woo. Hoo. ;)

Wait until the league's next fiscal year starts in March. If you're not busy playing Mass Effect 3, though.

Mario Williams franchise tag salary would be $20M+?... wow

I do enjoy watching him hurt himself.

TheGameguru wrote:

Mario Williams franchise tag salary would be $20M+?... wow

I heard a figure of $28m earlier this year. He's been injured most of the last two seasons. I don't think we can afford him if we want to get the WR and secondary help we need. Unfortunately Kubiak and McNair will keep him around despite the liability, saddling us with a WR corps that only has one skilled player.

This is starting to be a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I feel bad this happened, but how many former players are going to sue the NFL because they have some sort of effects from playing a game where you're required to wear a helmet so you don't hurt yourself.

Kush15 wrote:

This is starting to be a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I feel bad this happened, but how many former players are going to sue the NFL because they have some sort of effects from playing a game where you're required to wear a helmet so you don't hurt yourself.

Enough for the nfl to get the point that window dressing is not enough given the evidence of long term brain damage due to concussive and sub-concussive trauma.

Ugh. The Redskins are already talking about giving away the farm to get Griffin III.

Paleocon wrote:

Ugh. The Redskins are already talking about giving away the farm to get Griffin III still the Redskins.

FTFY.

So whenever I turn basketball on, my 2.5 y.o. daughter tells me she wants football instead. I'm doing good!

I don't know about the Texans paying Mario that much. It may be economically unworkable to keep him. Or hey, he's a free agent. Make him an offer and let him choose between cash or continuity. Loyalty doesn't have to be a one-way sacrifice.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

So whenever I turn basketball on, my 2.5 y.o. daughter tells me she wants football instead. I'm doing good!

In her defense, you're watching the Rockets.

LeapingGnome wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:

So whenever I turn basketball on, my 2.5 y.o. daughter tells me she wants football instead. I'm doing good!

In her defense, you're watching the Rockets.

20-14 > 13-18.

Paleocon wrote:

Ugh. The Redskins are already talking about giving away the farm to get Griffin III.

I don't see the problem. Heath Shuler, Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell... 1st round QBs always work for the 'Skins.

(Hey, it could be worse. Before those guys, you have to go all the way back to 1956-1961 and Don Allard, Richie Lucas, and Norm Snead as the last 1st round QBs taken by the 'Skins. Allard and Lucas never even played for the team. If not for Sammy Baugh, the best 1st round Skins QB in history would be Campbell.)

Paleocon wrote:

Ugh. The Redskins are already talking about giving away the farm to get Griffin III.

I am not sure if you have heard sir, but the bird is the word and RG III is the truth.

boogle wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

This is starting to be a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I feel bad this happened, but how many former players are going to sue the NFL because they have some sort of effects from playing a game where you're required to wear a helmet so you don't hurt yourself.

Enough for the nfl to get the point that window dressing is not enough given the evidence of long term brain damage due to concussive and sub-concussive trauma.

The players lose a lot of credibility when, by the reports that I have read, they push back hard against moves by the league to change the helmets, make dangerous hits illegal, etc.

boogle wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Ugh. The Redskins are already talking about giving away the farm to get Griffin III.

I am not sure if you have heard sir, but the bird is the word and RG III is the truth.

I was thinking along these lines, too. Why wouldn't you be happy to draft a guy who can do what RG III can do? Is it the "giving away the farm" part, irrespective of the target?

Fedaykin98 wrote:
boogle wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Ugh. The Redskins are already talking about giving away the farm to get Griffin III.

I am not sure if you have heard sir, but the bird is the word and RG III is the truth.

I was thinking along these lines, too. Why wouldn't you be happy to draft a guy who can do what RG III can do? Is it the "giving away the farm" part, irrespective of the target?

One player doesn't make a franchise, and spending all your draft picks to get that one player has a great history of failure (see Redskins, Washington). So, no, you don't give away the farm. If you are a team with lots of holes (again, see Redskins, Washington), you trade DOWN. Get more picks. Fill more holes. Tampa picks at #5, and my hope is that (A) either Justin Blackmon falls to them, or they trade down. I'm typically opposed to first-round WRs due to the high probability of a bust, but Blackmon just looks ridiculously Megatron-ish and I'd willing to take that risk.

And NO TRENT RICHARDSON. If there's one thing the NFL has taught us in recent years, it's that RB is a largely disposable position these days. Much rather pick up an RB later.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

One player doesn't make a franchise

Unless it's a true franchise QB, in this day and age.

What are the Saints and Colts if not .500-caliber teams turned into trophy hoisters by franchise QBs?

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

One player doesn't make a franchise

Unless it's a true franchise QB, in this day and age.

What are the Saints and Colts if not .500-caliber teams turned into trophy hoisters by franchise QBs?

And how many QBs in the last decade or so potentially fall into that category? Peyton, Brees, Brady. Based on the last few years, Rodgers, possibly. This year, Eli, maybe? Other than that? Your odds for getting that home run are very small, and RGIII is a guy who was phenomenal for most of a college season.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

One player doesn't make a franchise

Unless it's a true franchise QB, in this day and age.

What are the Saints and Colts if not .500-caliber teams turned into trophy hoisters by franchise QBs?

There is no more crucial/rewarding position that drafting the right QB.. it can bolster a franchise for a decade.. as well as cost a franchise a couple years before they have to roll the dice again...

Anymore the biggest issue I see with getting the right QB is timing it with the OTHER guys you get right as well... nothing worse than seeing your other skill positions go to waste and/or peak while you are still struggling to find the right QB.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

And how many QBs in the last decade or so potentially fall into that category? Peyton, Brees, Brady. Based on the last few years, Rodgers, possibly. This year, Eli, maybe? Other than that? Your odds for getting that home run are very small, and RGIII is a guy who was phenomenal for most of a college season.

The odds don't even matter, because what's the alternative? Go without one? Build one of the NFL's elite running attacks instead? We see how far that's gotten Minnesota and Jacksonville.

Your odds are never great but your odds if you don't take the shots at them are 0.

Now that the rookie cap has brought the price of top-end draft picks WAY down, you pretty much have to take your shots when you get the opportunity. It's not a $40 million guaranteed money sink anymore.

Tom Brady was a 6th round compensatory pick.

Drew Brees was the first pick in the 2nd round.

Aaron Rodgers was the 24th pick in the 1st round.

Out of the four elite quarterbacks of the last 10 years, only Peyton Manning was taken in the first 20 picks of the NFL draft.

If you think you can reliably get a franchise QB drafting late, then by all means, do so.

But when you're talking about the low odds of scoring one at the top of the draft, your odds with 6th round compensatory picks are 1 in a bajillion.

*Legion* wrote:

Your odds are never great but your odds if you don't take the shots at them are 0.

Now that the rookie cap has brought the price of top-end draft picks WAY down, you pretty much have to take your shots when you get the opportunity. It's not a $40 million guaranteed money sink anymore.

This.

Look at all the other franchise QBs. They might not be elite, but they're mostly top draft picks: Flacco, Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, Freeman, Vick, Cutler. While they're not all "elite," their respective teams aren't dumping them anytime soon. The outliers like Romo, Fitzpatrick or Hasselback are, as Legion's arguing, fewer and farther between.

This is why we ended up with that run on QBs last draft. It's not as big of a risk and you're not stuck starting Alex Smith for 5 seasons because you paid him a gajillion dollars. That's not a knock against Smith, a lot of that wasn't his fault, but if he was a 2nd round pick he wouldn't have been starting as much as he did. Perhaps JaMarcus "Jabba" Russell is a better example. Dude got $40 mil+ out of the Raiders while playing like a complete amateur before he was cut. If he hadn't cost that much (and it wasn't Al Davis), he would've been riding the bench or getting cut waaaaaaay earlier than that.

Whew. Ed Reed's not retiring. Me = happy.

My point is that a gutsy move like giving away the farm for a top prospect only seems to work when you have enough of the other pieces in place to make a run at the playoffs or higher. I honestly don't see this being the case with the Redskins where just about every skill position they have is questionable. Heck, their organization is so freaking dysfunctional, it didn't even give Carlos Rogers an eye exam (resulting in his being mediocre his entire time in Washington and an instant pro bowl player the moment his feet hit the turf in San Francisco).

Griff may be a game changing player, but Washington's issues are far more serious than QB and giving away the entire draft for this year and next for him will pretty much mean he's Sam Bradford.

The Skins only have to move 3 or 4 slots to grab a QB. I can't imagine it'll be too incredibly rich, but you never know. The top of the draft is f-ed.