Yet another headphone thread

I know this is the headphone thread, but I have a speaker (monitor?) inquiry, since I know all you audiophile hang out here:
I need some good desktop speakers for my PC. I want to cheat on my 595s and be able to rock the f*ck out at or around my desk.

Possibly relevant information:

  • I don't really know what my budget is at this point, since I have no idea what I'm even getting into.
  • I have a Xonar DX audio card.
  • This is for rocking out, and not really 'critical listening', but my current Logitech speakers are not even close.
  • Space is an issue. I have a large desk, but that is for my clutter.
  • 2.0 unless I need 2.1 - I don't really care to have a sub, but if you guys think I need one, then I'll look into it.

[size=6]PS: I love you guys[/size]

ELewis17 wrote:

I know this is the headphone thread, but I have a speaker (monitor?) inquiry, since I know all you audiophile hang out here:
I need some good desktop speakers for my PC. I want to cheat on my 595s and be able to rock the f*ck out at or around my desk.

Possibly relevant information:

  • I don't really know what my budget is at this point, since I have no idea what I'm even getting into.
  • I have a Xonar DX audio card.
  • This is for rocking out, and not really 'critical listening', but my current Logitech speakers are not even close.
  • Space is an issue. I have a large desk, but that is for my clutter.
  • 2.0 unless I need 2.1 - I don't really care to have a sub, but if you guys think I need one, then I'll look into it.

[size=6]PS: I love you guys[/size]

Since you don't have an amp, you'll probably want some powered speakers. We had this discussion recently in the Airport Express thread, and a few people recommended the Audioengine powered speakers (me included just based on some reviews). They can be had for about 400 bucks which is a little pricey but not too bad for what you get probably.

I have the Klipsch WB-14 Icons which I absolutely love. You'll need an amp for them. I think they're clearing them out because they've been 200 bucks (list price 600) on Newegg since the holidays. The sound quality is superb, but you need an amp. I use the Maverick Audio TubeMagic A1 which is a tube headphone amp but also has a solid-state speaker amplifier. You would be able to use it with your headphones, and the tube amp circuit might give a bit warmer sound to your HD 595s. They are $199, but you pay a bit extra for shipping.

As for cheaper, easier options. Klipsch makes the ProMedia 2.1 set that I've heard. They're a little over 200 bucks. They would be great especially if you don't listen to a lot of jazz/classical music.

That's all I've got for now. I know other people will have good suggestions.

Edit: Okay, I fixed a couple things, and maybe it would help everyone if I asked a couple questions. What type of music do you generally listen to? If you want to rock out, a 2.1 system similar to Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 might be your best option because it won't take up too much space on your desk and give you the audio quality you want. Bookshelf speakers will sound better, but they do take up quite a bit of space, especially if you have multiple monitors.

Definitely take ThinJ's advice on powered speakers. I have yet to try any. Here's another thought on the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 setup. You can pick up new ones for $100 on eBay. They list for $150 on Klipsch.com, so whatever I found on Amazon was overpriced. If you want to save a little money, you could get some used ones for even less. That would be a super great, easy, cheap option.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

Since you don't have an amp, you'll probably want some powered speakers. We had this discussion recently in the Airport Express recently and a few people recommended the Audioengine A5+ speakers (me included just based on some reviews). They can be had for about 400 bucks which is a little pricey but not too bad for what you get.

I think the Audioengine sets sound pretty ok but are massively overpriced. $400 for the A5's is just flat out ridiculous. They're solid speakers. About... $200 solid.

I have the Klipsch WB-14 Icons which I absolutely love. You'll need an amp for them. I think they're clearing them out because they've been 200 bucks (list price 600) on Newegg. The sound quality is superb, but you need an amp. I use the Maverick Audio TubeMagic A1 which is a headphone amp but also has a speaker amplifier. You would be able to use it with your headphones and the tube amp circuit might give a bit warmer sound to your HD 595s. They are $199, but you pay a bit extra for shipping.

As for cheaper, easier options. Klipsch makes the ProMedia 2.1 set that I've heard. They're a little over 200 bucks. They would be great especially if you don't listen to a lot of jazz/classical music.

Good options. Personally I think the Klipsch Promedia 2.1 set sounds just as good as the Audioengine A5's but for roughly half the money. I listened to two sets from Audioengine and came away thinking both would be good if they cut the price significantly. I wouldn't pay more than $150 for the A5's.

You can do much better than the Audioengines buying other powered monitors for significantly less money. My M-Audio BX5a Deluxe's were in the $225 range and IMO they eat the A5's for breakfast. There's some other great monitors out there too. KRK Rokit G2's are great and will run about $300 for a pair of the 5 inch models, as are the Alesis M1 520's that are under $200 for a pair.

On the other hand, if going up toward $400 doesn't bother you and you want to really have a grand old time... step up to the 6, 6.5, or 8 inch versions available in some model lines from those same makers. M-Audio has the BX8a's ($350) which are I think the best overall value, Alesis has the M1 620's, KRK has the Rokit G2 also available in a six inch model, and on from there. There's some other companies too like Behringer and Mackie that have solid products.

Almost all of this stuff is available on Amazon.

IMO, tuffalo's solution will sound the best if you can afford throwing an amp into the mix. Those Klipsch's for that price is a great deal.

But if another box near your rig isn't ideal or you'd rather just buy the speakers and be done, I highly recommend a good pair of powered monitors.

*Bolded for emphasis. If you can get an amp in there, there's always more options out there for passive speakers than for powered monitors.

$100 is a pretty great price for the Promedia's. They're not amazing, but they're really solid and beat the crap out of the PC speaker junk from Logitech and other companies.

The only new(ish) entrant to the dedicated PC speaker system market that might be worth looking at is the Corsair SP2500. They reviewed extremely well pretty much everywhere. I haven't heard them myself, but there's a lot of positive talk about them. They usually run a little over $200, though I'm pretty sure they've been on sale for less.

*Worth noting, you can look at pretty much all the powered monitors I mentioned at most Guitar Center stores. It's where I did most of my comparison shopping.

The Promedia 2.1s, assuming they sound the same as my old set of 5.1s, are competent, which is actually saying a lot, for computer speakers. Most computer speakers are terrible, as you've noticed from your Logitechs. I winced a bit when I realized you were dropping back from 595s to Logitech... what a dreadful experience.

Basically, the Promedias aren't great at anything, but they're not really bad at anything, either. They're competent and well-balanced. They won't excite you, but they also won't annoy you. For computer speakers, that's awesome. They don't overdrive the bass, the treble is decent, the midrange is reasonably full. Even after dozens or hundreds of hours, you should still find them perfectly pleasant.

Oh, another note: you don't need much amplifier power for speakers. Most everyone buys these 100 watts-per-channel monsters, but a ten-watt amplifier will reach half the maximum loudness of a 100-watter. Ears are logarithmic, so you actually need surprisingly little power. People think big numbers are better, but 100 watts per channel is really ridiculous overkill, especially if you have a powered subwoofer, because it's the bass that sucks down most of the juice. With a powered sub, most people would probably be perfectly happy at maybe 5 watts per main channel, on reasonably sensitive speakers.

So you can buy a little D-class T-amp for like $25, and that'll give you about 15 watts per channel, which should drive those little Klipsch units quite nicely.

Note that the Klipsch only go to 82Hz, though -- speakers that small are really best with a subwoofer. If you want to avoid the sub, you'll want bigger speakers. If you get something big enough to run 5" drivers (or is it 5.25"? I don't remember).... anyway, a 5 inch-ish driver should go to roughly 40Hz, which will cover you for most rock.

Malor wrote:

So you can buy a little D-class T-amp for like $25, and that'll give you about 15 watts per channel, which should drive those little Klipsch units quite nicely.

I was wondering about that option and looked it up briefly but didn't get around to finding anything. That would be the route I'd go. I'm sure the speaker circuit in my headphone amp is something just like that. The Klipsch WB-14 Icons are not extremely lacking in bass by any means. For example, I was just playing the Mass Effect 3 demo and the explosions are powerful, but the very low end isn't there. For another example, if you were to play The Fellowship of The Ring and watch that scene where Sauron gets wacked, you wouldn't get that really low end much at all. I live in an apartment, so I don't have much use for that. You could always add a little powered subwoofer since your soundcard probably has some sort of sub-out type deal as Malor mentioned.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

What type of music do you generally listen to?

Pretty much anything. Really depends on my mood. I know, that doesn't really help much.

Thin_J wrote:

*Worth noting, you can look at pretty much all the powered monitors I mentioned at most Guitar Center stores. It's where I did most of my comparison shopping.

Excellent. There is a huge GC very close by.

I could make room for an amp, but I really don't want to. Plus that means maintenance, doesn't it?
I guess I could build a case for the amp also benefiting my 595's use... GAH!

Does using an amp give any delay for game/chat sounds or anything, or is it all plug and play?

I'm so torn all of the sudden...

Malor wrote:

So you can buy a little D-class T-amp for like $25, and that'll give you about 15 watts per channel, which should drive those little Klipsch units quite nicely.

Any recommendations for these? I'm looking to setup an old bookshelf speaker with an iPhone line out dock, and want something minimal in size/price.

I'm eventually planning on turning it into an AirPlay station when the Raspberry Pi PC's are released this year, but this is basically to replace my ailing iPhone clock radio dock.

ELewis17 wrote:

I could make room for an amp, but I really don't want to. Plus that means maintenance, doesn't it?
I guess I could build a case for the amp also benefiting my 595's use... GAH!

Does using an amp give any delay for game/chat sounds or anything, or is it all plug and play?

I'm so torn all of the sudden...

Tagging on to Elewis's question - Malor, Thin_J, tuffalo, what do you folks think of these M-Audio Speakers? I've been looking at these for a long time now and it seems like they can run without a amp, although they do benefit from having a USB DAC (according to the reviews).

avggeek wrote:
ELewis17 wrote:

I could make room for an amp, but I really don't want to. Plus that means maintenance, doesn't it?
I guess I could build a case for the amp also benefiting my 595's use... GAH!

Does using an amp give any delay for game/chat sounds or anything, or is it all plug and play?

I'm so torn all of the sudden...

Tagging on to Elewis's question - Malor, Thin_J, tuffalo, what do you folks think of these M-Audio Speakers? I've been looking at these for a long time now and it seems like they can run without a amp, although they do benefit from having a USB DAC (according to the reviews).

In that Airport Express thread, Tach bought those based on Thin_J's advise in yet another thread. I imagine they are very nice, but you will have to rely on Thin_J or Tach for details.

They should have them at Guitar Center for you to listen to if one is nearby. They are on their website. I was at Guitar Center recently with a friend. I should have sat down and listened to all the studio monitors for fun. One of these days, I'll have to do that.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

In that Airport Express thread, Tach bought those based on Thin_J's advise in yet another thread.

How many threads will you people create to make me spend money! AHHHHHH!! :P.

Will wait for Thin_J to stop by.

I could make room for an amp, but I really don't want to.

The little T-amp type units are small enough that you could probably just stick it on top of one of the speakers. They're quite tiny. You don't need a big monster receiver that takes up a quarter of your desk, you need something about the size of maybe a couple packs of cards.

Something like this would work nicely, for example. $25.

Plus that means maintenance, doesn't it?

Um, no? Maybe it might break someday, and you might need to buy a replacement, but there's no maintenance.

Does using an amp give any delay for game/chat sounds or anything, or is it all plug and play?

It's all analog, and probably doesn't add more than a millisecond of delay, if even that much.

Oh, and:

Tagging on to Elewis's question - Malor, Thin_J, tuffalo, what do you folks think of these M-Audio Speakers?

No idea. Thin_J is the go-to guy, he's got the widest and most recent experience with small speakers of that type.

although they do benefit from having a USB DAC (according to the reviews).

That depends on how good your motherboard DACs are. Very recent motherboards are now pretty clean; I quite like the quality on my current P8P67 Deluxe board, for instance, with the high-end Realtek 889 chip. For a long time, they were pretty awful, so if your system is older, you might want a USB DAC for music listening. Note, however, that running games through most USB soundcards tends to be kind of iffy. They can really act strangely when you do that.

avggeek, the AV40's are very clean, very clear sounding little speakers and they're very solid particularly relative to other products in that price range. They won't do if you're a person that wants to hear any low end bass, but that's true of any pair of small speakers like that.

I don't know if I ever mentioned it here, but I did eventually get a sub from Dayton Audio to go with my Bx5a's. It took me a good couple of weeks to get the crossover and volume set to a spot that complemented the monitors the way I wanted but it was totally worth it.

Malor wrote:

Something like this would work nicely, for example. $25.

Any opinion on either of these?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SMSL-A1-TA202...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indeed-Tripa...

Unfortunately the one you linked doesn't ship to Canada... and there's this weird thing on ebay where power adapters for these things aren't included?

Well, that second one looks okay -- 98db s/n ratio. That's not stellar, but it's decent. For $23, I'd call it excellent.

Note that the harmonic distortion is very low up to about 80% volume, and then gets pretty crazy, so it probably won't sound that good above that point. You'll probably almost never go past halfway on the volume anyway, but I'd think of 75% as a soft limit.

Weird that they don't include a power adapter for it. They sell one here, but that's another 18 bucks.

Looks decent, but it seems kinda spendy when you combine the two items.

Your first link I don't know about ... it may be the exact same thing, but their specs don't have enough detail to be sure.

So, after I discovered what the lifespan of headphone amp vacuum tubes is, I bought a couple pairs of replacements for my Maverick Audio A1. I love my setup so much that I want to be able to save some for future use. My plan is to buy cheaper ones whenever mine go out in a year or two and hopefully not notice a difference. I'll always have the peace of mind that I've got the exact same ones I have now as a backup. Plus, I'm really happy with how Maverick Audio has treated me support-wise and with the product I purchased, so I don't mind supporting them a bit.

They are pretty little tubes:

IMAGE(http://www.mav-audio.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/r/a/raytheon_tube.jpg)

Headphone question about sound isolation over-the-ear headphones. For the past decade or so I've used either Apple earbuds when I'm running around town for phone calls and podcasts or I've used Sony MDR-V150 headphones. The Sony headphones have a cable problem that causes them to break down once every other year or once a year. So I've replaced them with frequency and didn't think about it much because they were $25 and felt comfortable for wearing at work while I was coding.

They gave up the ghost recently and I decided to spring for something a little nicer. Something where I could replace the cable if something went wrong. So I went out and tried on a bunch of stuff yesterday and ultimately settled on the Bose AE2i over-the-ear noise isolation headphones.

Now I have Boise Quiet Comfort 2 headphones that I use for plane flights. I love them. I feel like the noise canceling works well, they're comfortable and the sound is good. However I also know that since I rarely wear cans that amount of ambient noise going away is actually kind of "feels" weird. Not sure if it's my mind trying to process the lack of noise or what, but it's not comfortable to wear those for too long in everyday situations.

Now the AE2is feel similar. The noise isolation is so strong that it feels weird. Not sure if this is something I'll adjust to or if this is something some people never get used to. Either way I'm now debating the wisdom of this purchase and considering options. I think my main option would be "on the ear" headphones similar to the Sony headphones, but nicer.

Any thoughts on this? Will I adjust to the AE2is? Is there possibly another reason they bug me? Is there a no-brainer headphone I should consider switching to?

Anyone? Do I need to start a new thread to get noticed?

I see there are a lot of them.

I dunno, DSGamer, I've never heard of anyone being unable to get used to lack of background noise, but then again, I've never really asked anyone.

If you don't have the option of returning them, why not stick with them for a few weeks and see if you adapt? If they still seem weird after, say, 15 or 20 hours, then maybe you're never going to like them?

Yeah I read the post but have never been asked that question before and didn't know how to answer.

Experiment until you find what you like is about as good as it gets, non-suggestion though it may be.

Malor wrote:

I dunno, DSGamer, I've never heard of anyone being unable to get used to lack of background noise, but then again, I've never really asked anyone.

If you don't have the option of returning them, why not stick with them for a few weeks and see if you adapt? If they still seem weird after, say, 15 or 20 hours, then maybe you're never going to like them?

Actually I googled this a bit and I'm not alone. Other people can't do over the ear headphones because the pressure causes headaches, etc. I returned these late tonight and got the P5 headphones by Bowers & Wilkins. The sound is insanely good. I was shocked by how good it was. When I started up my music I didn't believe it was coming from the headphones. It sounded like it was coming from outside.

They're on the ear and very comfortable. They're also very pricey. So I'm going to try these out for a bit and sort out whether they're worth it.

DSGamer wrote:

Actually I googled this a bit and I'm not alone. Other people can't do over the ear headphones because the pressure causes headaches, etc.

Ok see, this is not the same as missing ambient noise or whatever. That's just straight up a comfort thing. If you have a large dome or are like me and just can't go too long with much pressure on the sides of your head without getting a headache, then I can suggest some options that have been great for me.

I returned these late tonight and got the P5 headphones by Bowers & Wilkins. The sound is insanely good. I was shocked by how good it was. When I started up my music I didn't believe it was coming from the headphones. It sounded like it was coming from outside.

They're on the ear and very comfortable. They're also very pricey. So I'm going to try these out for a bit and sort out whether they're worth it.

Yeah.. you jumped straight from low budget to entry level audiophile gear. That's always going to be quite the noticeable jump. Now you get why this thread is 30+ pages long spent talking mostly about headphones.

That said, I'll be blown away if those on-ear pads don't eventually bother you if you listen for any longish length of time.

Thin_J wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Actually I googled this a bit and I'm not alone. Other people can't do over the ear headphones because the pressure causes headaches, etc.

Ok see, this is not the same as missing ambient noise or whatever. That's just straight up a comfort thing. If you have a large dome or are like me and just can't go too long with much pressure on the sides of your head without getting a headache, then I can suggest some options that have been great for me.

I'm all ears. That's basically the spot I'm in. I thought initially it was related to the ears being sealed off since I never wear headphones like this except when I use my Bose Quiet Comforts on plane trips. After I spent some time with the initial headphones, though, I realized it was more just how they were sitting and physical pressure.

Thin_J wrote:

Yeah.. you jumped straight from low budget to entry level audiophile gear. That's always going to be quite the noticeable jump. Now you get why this thread is 30+ pages long spent talking mostly about headphones.

That said, I'll be blown away if those on-ear pads don't eventually bother you if you listen for any longish length of time.

Why do you say that? Like I said, my "go to" headphone for almost a decade has been the Sony MDR-v150. Those are distinctly on the ear.

IMAGE(http://fancyshowtech.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/sony-mdr-v150-studio-monitor-headphone-earphone-v-150_110618021577.jpg)

Okay, I just started to feel it. Been using them all night waiting for the other shoe to drop and it just did. I started to get a slight headache from the pressure of the headphones. So here's the funny thing. At least I think it's funny. I love music. I always have the largest iPod / iPhone I can get. I have the 64GB iPhone 4S currently. I carry around at least 30GB of music at all times. I program for a living and I listen to a diverse range of music all day long.

In spite of that great love for music I've never spent much on headphones or speakers. Until the thread a couple weeks ago about the Airport Express I had been running with a Squeezebox and cycling through those Sony headphones. But the Sony headphones stopped showing up in the store and the Squeezebox died. So it's like I've woken from a 10 year slumber to see what the speaker / headphone world is like. So I'd never thought about the pressure problem because I was literally buying the same headphones (minus Apple earbuds) for the last decade. I was given no reason to change and outside of my travel headphones (noise canceling) I haven't tried out anything new.

When I bought my first pair of noise canceling headphones after some hand-me-down Bose died I picked up Beats By Dre. I had no clue what the market was like and I thought they were fine. I used them for 2 years until the internal wire between headphones died. I got them replaced on warranty, sold them and got another pair of the Bose. Still playing Rip Van Winkle a bit. So when I went shopping today I had no clue what I was doing. I almost bought the Beat Solos because I knew they were comfortable on my head and they were cheaper than the P5s.

Now I'm back to the drawing board. Whatever suggestions you have, Thin_J, I'm open.

The Beats headphones are actually kind of decent, they're just super overpriced. But if the price doesn't bother you, you like how they sound, and you know for a fact they're more comfortable for you, then it's worth keeping them in mind. I'm not one to recommend the Beats products generally because the pricing is Ludicrous, (No it's Dr. Dre. HEYOOOOOOOO) but headphones are very subjective and kind of personal thing. Don't rule out something you already know you like and works for you.

Now with that kind of disclaimer out of the way, what I would actually recommend for someone to try out:

Beyerdynamic DT-880 - Excellent reference quality headphones. Super, super comfortable, just like the 990's I have, but much more balanced sound. One of the best out there in the pricerange.

AKG K702 - Tuffalo has these. A common note in reviews is that they almost disappear after you put them on. Audio quality widely regarded as excellent. Just as good an option as the DT-880. Might be about $50 cheaper right now, so very likely an excellent current option.

Sennheiser HD558 or 598 - Both widely regarded as super comfortable. I had a pair of 595's, as do several other people on GWJ including Jeff-66 and ELewis. Gunner has the 598's. They're great. I didn't keep them because there's this nub on the inside that my biggish ears touch and it bothered me, but I've quite seriously never seen anybody else mention it before so I just assume my ears are shaped funny. Audio quality is very clean and clear and very well balanced. Super, super popular.

Sennheiser HD600 - Super comfortable all around. Was one of the most highly recommended sets of midrange audiophile headphones for quite a few years, and still remains a super popular option today.

There's others out there, but those are the ones I would lean toward initially.

If you try one and find they still put too much pressure on your head or you have some other issue, please say so and we can maybe suggest some other headphones that fit or sound different, depending on what you try.

Oh, and I also love the headband design that Audiotechnica uses on their A/AD/700/900 lineup. I still think the AD900's are the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. All those models have that split headband design that distributes the weight of the headphones across two points instead of kind of focusing it all at the top center of your skull. I often forget I'm wearing them. The problem with recommending them is that they tend to not actually be quite as adjustable as others so if your head happens to be a little too big or a little too small you can end up with a little too much pressure in places or with a very loose wobbly fit. I still think they're amazing though. Love the whole lineup.

If I had to recommend just one pair right now, right this minute, I would likely lean toward a pair of the AKG's. They're up to about $280 now, but that's still $20 cheaper than the Beyers and $35 or $40 cheaper than the HD600's, and I'd take any of those over the 558 or 598.

Thanks. I'll take a look at those. Funny thing is that the B&W produce some of the most amazing sound I've ever heard out of headphones. I'm bummed that the same headphones aren't a couple inches wider. Or maybe that particular design (pressing the cups into the ears for noise isolation) is going to cause me trouble regardless.

DSGamer wrote:

Thanks. I'll take a look at those. Funny thing is that the B&W produce some of the most amazing sound I've ever heard out of headphones. I'm bummed that the same headphones aren't a couple inches wider. Or maybe that particular design (pressing the cups into the ears for noise isolation) is going to cause me trouble regardless.

I should mention that the headphones Thin_J mentioned are open headphones (except for the DT 880s which are semi-open), so they will leak a lot of sound to the outside world. You will also be able to hear outside noises fairly easily. You probably need some sort of amplifier too to take full advantage of them, although, that's not necessarily the case for some of them. At any rate, they won't work well with an iPod/iPhone which is what it sounded like you planned on doing. They are more suited to desktop/living room use (Maybe you want to go that route). You can pick up a total bithead DAC/amp that is cheap ($80?) and works well.

I have some suggestions for iPod headphones. I had the Sennheiser HD 428s which are designed for iPod/iPhone use. They sound good and are extremely comfortable. They've got a very nice soundstage. They almost completely cover your ears, but aren't particularly bulky. They sound better and are more comfortable than the Sony MDR-v150s. I use to have some of those ages ago and I always remember them pinching my ears after a few hours. The caveat is that they are cheaply made. There is a lot of cheap plastic used, and the cord isn't very durable. Mine went out and since you can't replace the cord easily, I had to take them apart and solder a new connection. That was a pain, but worked for awhile. They only lasted a month or two after that and then I had to toss them. For that reason, I won't buy them again.

They make some more expensive models which are probably a bit less cheap (HD 448, 449, and 438). I was going to say it looks like they all use the same non-replaceable cord, but I just checked and at least the HD 438s have a replaceable cord! I don't know how they compare sound-wise, but they are probably similar to the HD 428s if not a little better. It looks like the 438s are the only ones with replaceable cables, unfortunately. They are a bit on the ugly side.

IMAGE(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uQ4nsPb%2BL.jpg)

I did a little more searching, and it looks like the new version of the 438 is the 439, and it's not as ugly plus it has that exchangeable cable. Whenever I end up getting some over the ear headphones for when I'm out and about, I'll probably go with those because I liked the sound of the 428s quite a bit.

Another option might be the Grado SR60i. I guess they color sound quite a bit, but many people like them. Plus, they aren't too expensive (~$80). I know that Echo Audio in Portland carries them. You could go try them out plus some others to get an idea. They have a listening station set up. The SR60i might be open backed, but I know they are okay with being driven by portable devices.

Thin_J recommendations are spot on, but I hold the Senns. in much higher regard. The best headphones ever made, in my opinion, come from Sennheiser's HD5xx and HD6xx line. They pioneered the the open musical sounding headphone. The clamping force of the HD600 will be too much for you, I suspect...it was for me, but the HD5xx line is more comfortable (less clamp; firmer pads) and cheaper, but they are every bit as good as the HD6xx line, just different. They are bright and punchy where the HD600's are warm and laid back. Both have phenomenal imaging, but the HD600's soundstage is more accurate and defined.

If you want something less expensive, Sony MDR-V750x line might be right up your alley. There are various models that should fit any budget you set out for yourself. The Sony MDR-V6 are another headphone you might enjoy from Sony. I believe all are based on their old studio monitors and they should fit similarly to your old Sonys.

The Audio Technica ATH-AD700 are great and the best bargain Thin_J listed. At $100 they are a damn steal. They sound more like a $200-$250 headphone. They are super comfortable and have a very slight clamping force. They actually feel very loose when worn. They will stay n your head without issue, but headbanging will send them flying across they room.

Currently I am crushing on the Grado SR60i. They are not nearly as refined as the Senns, AT's, and Beyer's listed above, but they sound wonderful. Very upfront and engaging, but without being harsh or punishing like other Grado models. They turned out to be much warmer than I thought they would be. They are earpad headphones, but easy to bend and conform to the way you want them to sit on your ears.

All the headphone I listed will be good for music AND gaming, regardless if you use virtual surround processing or not.

Yet, it sounds like you love the pair you currently have, except for the way they fit. If you venture further a field you need to look for that same first impression. You will never like a headphone that does not satisfy on a first listen, no matter how much you break them in. You will know right away if they sound good or not.

Amazon has a great return policy. I would test some out.

PS: Head-Fi.org, I think, has "Can Jams" where members have a meet-up and they bring all their audiophile gear to share. Kind of like a Goodjer event, but for audiophile geeks instead of gamer geeks. Might be worth a quick look to see if one is coming to your area. it would be a great way to test some expensive headphones before dropping a big wad of cheddar.