The Conservative War On Women

Irongut wrote:

Maybe HR departments can expand to include a 'Death Panel' (Hey, that phrase isnt getting used nearly enough anymore) to work with the insurance companies to review employee requests for treatment and determine if it meets market trends and aligns strategically with business goals. By partnering with the insurance industry, maybe they could earn corporate discounts to help drive down costs on behalf of shareholders.

That has been discussed in multiple boardrooms across the US. I guarantee it.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

If this isn't a war on women in Virginia, I would like to hear someone tell what it is.

And on a 63-36 vote, the (Virginia) House passed a bill that requires women to have a "transvaginal ultrasound" before undergoing abortions.

Do you know what a "transvaginal ultrasound" is? I do.

But let the U.S. National Library of Medicine describe the procedure:

You will lie down on a table with your knees bent and feet in holders called stirrups. The health care provider will place a probe, called a transducer, into the vagina. The probe is covered with a condom and a gel. The probe sends out sound waves, which reflect off body structures. A computer receives these waves and uses them to create a picture. The doctor can immediately see the picture on a nearby TV monitor.

These people are mentally unstable.

So basically Virginia Republicans have decided "Alright, you can only have an abortion after you are raped. So if you want an abortion we are going to rape you."

If I were a woman, this astonishing behavior would push me the opposite direction. Like, getting full page ads in the paper with my ultrasound picture and a big picture of my smiling face saying "fourth one this month!"

I realize this wouldn't solve anything. I'm just a douche, regardless of my sex, apparently.

It seems to me that this thread is mislabeled. Isn't it only Catholics, not all conservatives, that are against contraceptives?

I didn't think Rick Santorum was a Catholic.

No, there's a lot of evangelical conservatives that opinions about all this stuff and they're trying to get it passed into law.

Nomad wrote:

It seems to me that this thread is mislabeled. Isn't it only Catholics, not all conservatives, that are against contraceptives?

Something like 90% of Catholics use birth control. The Catholic congregation is not against birth control, I think you have other more fundamentalist groups who are against it. Birth control is also not the only issue being talked about here.

momgamer wrote:

I didn't think Rick Santorum was a Catholic.

No, there's a lot of evangelical conservatives that opinions about all this stuff and they're trying to get it passed into law.

I think he claims to be Catholic but really only espouses a few of their beliefs.

Oh. I totally didn't know that. Gingrich is also apparently Catholic.

Pat Robertson has spoken out on contraception, and he's definitely not Catholic. Please don't ask me to trawl around in the swamp looking for more of these vicious knids.

Nomad wrote:

It seems to me that this thread is mislabeled. Isn't it only Catholics, not all conservatives, that are against contraceptives?

That's just one story though. I suggested the name of the thread as it's a common topic of discussion in general. The OP is just the latest in many examples Malor has posted.

gregrampage wrote:
Nomad wrote:

It seems to me that this thread is mislabeled. Isn't it only Catholics, not all conservatives, that are against contraceptives?

That's just one story though. I suggested the name of the thread as it's a common topic of discussion in general. The OP is just the latest in many examples Malor has posted.

It should also be noted in the original story that started this thread, the discussion of calling the contraception mandate an "abortion mandate" was spouted at the CPAC conference this past weekend in Washington, DC.

On that panel that suggested this course of action was Live Action President Lila Rose, Americans United for Life President Charmaine Yoest, Students for Life of America Executive Director Kristan Hawkins, National Right to Life President Carol Tobias, and Rebecca Kiessling, an attorney who advocates against rape exceptions in anti-abortion legislation.

Some of them are only against emergency contraception, but the fact that they would encourage everyone to call it an "abortion mandate" instead of a contraception mandate does them no favors.

Nomad wrote:

It seems to me that this thread is mislabeled. Isn't it only Catholics, not all conservatives, that are against contraceptives?

This thread isn't only about contraceptives, it is about all political activities which are negative to women. Also, even on the issue of contraceptives it's not just a Catholic issue, because the entire Republican party and FOX News has been using it as a rallying cry.

Really the only question is whether it should be renamed to "The Republican War on Women", naming it "The Catholic War on Women" would be inaccurate, as well as unfair to Catholicism. (A fact which I am sure you would have pointed out if it actually had been named as such.)

Nomad wrote:

It seems to me that this thread is mislabeled. Isn't it only Catholics, not all conservatives, that are against contraceptives?

There's also the "quiverfull" evangelicals who are also following the every-sperm-is-sacred routine based on Psalm 127:5: "As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man, so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them."

From what I understand, the law itself does not demand a transvaginal ultrasound ... but typically at the early state that this would be occuring, that is the only method that will produce useful results. If the law passes, I wonder if doctors could get around the douchier aspects by just performing a normal sonogram.

To make matters more confusing ...

The medical professional also would have to record whether the woman chose to see the ultrasound image or hear the fetal heartbeat. Viewing the image and listening to the heartbeat would not be required.

....

That seems to make a lie out of the supposed motivation of the law.

absurddoctor wrote:

From what I understand, the law itself does not demand a transvaginal ultrasound ... but typically at the early state that this would be occuring, that is the only method that will produce useful results. If the law passes, I wonder if doctors could get around the douchier aspects by just performing a normal sonogram.

I have no doubt the wording of the bill was exactly as intended. The anti-abortion legislators have plenty of advisers that tell them how to craft bill language that always gives plausible deniability, hence, not actually saying "transvaginal ultrasound" but requiring it as a matter of law.

Oh, good LORD!

Del. David Englin (D) said the bill represents a level of government intrusion that “shocks the conscience.” According to Englin’s office:

"...only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester, which is when most abortions occur. Englin offered an amendment to require the pregnant woman’s consent prior to subjecting her to a vaginal penetration ultrasound, but House Republicans rejected the amendment by a vote of 64 to 34.

“In many ways, thanks to President Obama, we are all Catholics now,” said Huckabee, a former Baptist minister.

Things have changed in the last 30 years or so, and conservatives have been happy to use Catholics as stormtroopers in the culture wars. Increasingly the religious right has been able to accept Catholicism with all that tradition and hardcore university training into their ranks. The nice thing about them--as opposed to Mormons--is the Protestant religious right has nothing to fear from Catholics in terms of conversions in the Bible Belt.

And many more examples keep coming in from others as well, greg.

It's not an isolated thing, it's a nasty ongoing effort by the conservative establishment to use health and reproductive statutes in an attempt to control sexual behavior. This is primarily aimed at women, because women have the most easily available handle to twist, pregnancy.

This is definitely, DEFINITELY not limited to Catholics.

Individual conservatives probably differ, but their leadership is attacking women full force.

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not.

The irony, it burns!

Historically, it was Protestant denominations that pressed hardest for the separation of church and state precisely because of fear of the growing influence of prodigiously reproducing Catholics.

IMAGE(http://www.harpweek.com/Images/SourceImages/CartoonOfTheDay/May/050875m.jpg)

Edwin wrote:

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not.

It's not.

Yonder wrote:
Edwin wrote:

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not.

It's not.

I did notice that some of the material they presented as being generated by Planned Parenthood were nothing to do with planned parenthood. The underwater girl swimming through the sea of dicks/condoms is from a French safe sex campaign (http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/... semi-NSFW). And two other posters I checked from the segment about college level material didn't appear to have anything to do with nor have been created by planned parenthood. So I'm left being pretty skeptical that any of the material presented was "correct"

Pope-gators confirmed for the next dark souls game.

CheezePavilion wrote:

Things have changed in the last 30 years or so, and conservatives have been happy to use Catholics as stormtroopers in the culture wars. Increasingly the religious right has been able to accept Catholicism with all that tradition and hardcore university training into their ranks.

Well, one thing that's changed over the last 30 years is that the "religious right" doesn't really exist as a unified political bloc the way it used to. A combination of factors, from the migration of many members from lower to middle class, the fact that younger members are more likely to seek higher education, and the general shift of the country to the right has kind of broken the siege mentality that unified many of these disparate groups in the 80s and early 90s. Additionally, as noted, Catholics are notoriously independent politically and more than half of them voted for Obama. If Catholics and evangelicals happen to find themselves in alignment, it's more a happy accident than one group giving matching orders to the other - Catholics were simply offended at the white house stance and the way it was communicated.

DanB wrote:
Yonder wrote:
Edwin wrote:

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not.

It's not.

I did notice that some of the material they presented as being generated by Planned Parenthood were nothing to do with planned parenthood. The underwater girl swimming through the sea of dicks/condoms is from a French safe sex campaign (http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/... semi-NSFW). And two other posters I checked from the segment about college level material didn't appear to have anything to do with nor have been created by planned parenthood. So I'm left being pretty skeptical that any of the material presented was "correct"

Total derail: That poster was done by James Jean. He does all the covers for Fables and other random arty stuff. I really like his work.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

If Catholics and evangelicals happen to find themselves in alignment, it's more a happy accident than one group giving matching orders to the other - Catholics were simply offended at the white house stance and the way it was communicated.

As Cheeze pointed out, it's only the hierarchy that's losing their sh*t over this. The average Catholic has long been OK with contraception and recent polling backs that up:

CBS News/NYT Poll[/url]]According to a survey, conducted between Feb. 8-13, 61 percent of Americans support federally-mandated contraception coverage for religiously-affiliated employers; 31 percent oppose such coverage.

The number is similar among self-professed Catholics surveyed: 61 percent said they support the requirement, while 32 percent oppose it.

Majorities of both men and women said they are in favor of the mandate, though support among women is especially pronounced, with 66 percent supporting and 26 percent opposing it. Among men, 55 percent of men are in favor; 38 percent object.

That and several Catholic groups are perfectly OK with Obama's compromise of having the insurance companies pick up the tab, including the Catholic Health Association which represents 1,200 health care organizations that employ some 750,000 people.

As with most things Catholic in America, the laity thinks and acts very differently than the folks with the funny hats.

Phoenix Rev wrote:

Oh, good LORD!

Del. David Englin (D) said the bill represents a level of government intrusion that “shocks the conscience.” According to Englin’s office:

"...only an invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound can effectively determine gestation age during much of the first trimester, which is when most abortions occur. Englin offered an amendment to require the pregnant woman’s consent prior to subjecting her to a vaginal penetration ultrasound, but House Republicans rejected the amendment by a vote of 64 to 34.

A comment dropped by Del. C. Todd Gilbert (R-Woodstock) during the floor debate:

While addressing the debate, Gilbert, the House's deputy majority leader, took to the floor to support the bill. The Shenandoah Valley lawmaker used his floor statement to describe most abortions as a "lifestyle convenience" for women. Witnesses said that Gilbert did not clarify which abortions he does not consider to be "lifestyle conveniences."
NormanTheIntern wrote:

Additionally, as noted, Catholics are notoriously independent politically and more than half of them voted for Obama. If Catholics and evangelicals happen to find themselves in alignment, it's more a happy accident than one group giving matching orders to the other

The way I see it happening is that as the culture changed the religious right and Catholics found themselves having more in common in terms of opposition to liberals, an ''ecumenism of the trenches''. And Catholics make really good fighters in a culture war: who are you going to send out there to debate with the liberals, someone from the Bible Belt or someone trained by Jesuits? I don't think it's an accident that, what, all current Supreme Court members appointed by Republicans are Catholics?

Catholics were simply offended at the white house stance and the way it was communicated

*some* Catholics. The hierarchy? Sure. The vocal laity? Yeah. The rank and file? I don't know, especially if we're talking about what qualifies as a 'Catholic' for purposes of a voting survey. Let's not forget that part of the story of the Birth Control Pill is the story of Catholics trying to find an acceptable means of contraception. I'm really not sure how this will play out. Will this make those Catholics who voted for Obama feel their religion is being attacked and cause them to turn away from him next election? Will it have no effect because those Catholics don't trust the hierarchy anymore to begin with? Heck, will it galvanize those Catholic voters who have issues with their Church despite their Religion to look on him--especially after the compromise--as someone who gets it when it comes to the separation of church and state?

My hope is obviously the latter, but I think there are many good, objective reasons to believe that option is the reality. I definitely think Catholics weren't offended--just the *vocal* Catholics were.

NormanTheIntern wrote:

Pope-gators confirmed for the next dark souls game.

Nice. Way to bring it back to our mutual love. I would totally fight pope-gators with the Drake sword.

"lifestyle convenience"

IE, trying to dodge the just punishment for sinful behavior.

Note that the fetus is not involved in his thinking. That's just the handle he can twist.

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/1z3KF.jpg)

Rachel Maddow wrote:

Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (D-California) is sending around this photo from the hearing on birth control today. She writes: "At @GOPOversight hearing right now 5 men are testifying on women's health: http://yfrog.com/10wg35j #WhereAreTheWomen?"

Yeah I saw this quip retweeted too:
"All-male House GOP leadership gets all-male witness panel to agree that all-male Catholic hierarchy should set contraceptives policy."
https://twitter.com/#!/mattyglesias/...