Jagged Alliance 2 remake in 3D by bitComposer

complexmath wrote:

Oh... not sure if I still have the discs, but if I do they're yours. I'll check tonight.

Definitely interested!

Tkyl wrote:

Played some more of the demo today. Finally started to actually figure it out. Once I setup my guys in a way to draw out the enemy, the game became easier. Then I just had to deal with flushing out the guys who don't come running out.

That's a valid tactic. You will be outnumbered in almost every encounter where you are attacking a position held by the enemy and will have to figure out ways to turn the situation to your favor. Positioning is pretty important for that. Well and guns but you have those in the demo

Downloading the game on Steam now.

Question for those who pre-ordered. Have any of you received the TF2 pre-order items? If so, where do you find them? I was going to give mine to Sparhawk, but not that the game is out, I can't seem to find them in my inventory at all.

Dang it. I forgot to preorder. Poopsicle on a stick!

MoonDragon wrote:

Dang it. I forgot to preorder. Poopsicle on a stick!

Then you should wait for initial impressions, mess with the demo and then decide if you want to pay 7 extra dollars for it or wait for the next steam sale . No offense to the devs but I think the game worth 25-30$s but after I saw the videos and played the demo I would have even payed 40 for it ;).

There was a problem with installing the preorder and according to a google search it wasn't only me. I called my wife and told her to install it before I get home and she couldn't find the Install button. When I got home the Install button showed up. Now I have to wait 16 more minutes for the install :(. The game itself isn't big too- it's about 2.24GB .

I think you need to start up TF2 for you items to show up. I got mine.

Did anyone else see there is already three DLC items? =\

Edwin wrote:

Did anyone else see there is already three DLC items? =

Yeah, I saw that. Was a little bummed out as well. On the plus side, I've played through about half of the first mission and had a blast. Found a silencer and took out 4-5 guys silently before going loud.

Played for an hour and I really want to like this game, but man...

Just as a disclaimer, I have played the classic installments and greatly enjoyed them at the time as well as later on.

But the UI looks as if I am playing the beta of an open source remake.
At first I thought that the lens of nostalgia might have deceived me, but comparing them with the old menus,
the new ones just feels like they have never really gotten past the prototype stage.
This version also does not allow you to create your own character and therefore does not feature the funny psychological assessment test of the classic title.
From what I've seen so far, weapon customization seems to be limited to some simple attachments only and maybe I was just unable to find the right button or the ability to climb on flat buildings has not made the transition.

That may sound incredibly harsh, but for a game that costs 40 Euros here when there have been cheaper indie titles like Frozen Synapse meanwhile...

Speaking of Frozen Synapse, I really like the command planning feature in JA:BiA.
There is a certain special rewarding feeling to it if a good plan executes and leaves multiple lifeless bodies on the floor.
I can't say a lot about the AI so far (literally just an hour in - shortly after the first mission),
but it didn't look too challenging so far with enemies that spotted me sitting in a corner and waiting forever for me to go in and just shoot them.

While I realize that this must sound like a lot of whining, I'd like to reserve final judgement until I played some more,
but if anyone should be on the fence for this I would strongly recommend to wait until the price dropped or some more feedback/reviews came out.
So far this game just makes me want to play the old JA2 with the new command planning controls.

kingschiebi wrote:

I can't say a lot about the AI so far (literally just an hour in - shortly after the first mission), but it didn't look too challenging so far with enemies that spotted me sitting in a corner and waiting forever for me to go in and just shoot them.

Well, the AI is roughly speaking either roaming or defending. Usually the closer you get to the flags on the map the more likely the AI is to just let you make the move because this is the position it will want to hold. If you take one of these locations the remaining defenders will come and try to take it back.

The more mobile enemies will do different things often depending on their equipment (how close do they have to get till they can attack? can they throw grenades? can they heal etc.), on the player positions they know or if other AI are nearby that are unalarmed and that they might share information with.

To everyone who is unsure about the game I would strongly suggest playing the demo. You'll be able to judge the UI mostly from playing the tutorial and the AI and combat from the map. What the full game adds to that (beyond a ton of bug fixes and other improvements on things like the camera) is basically the strategic layer (choosing your next target on the world map, balancing out liberating new locations and defending old ones) and quests that basically make suggestions on what to do next.

I'll also gladly tell whoever wants to know if a feature is in the game or not, how things work or don't work and what changes you can expect in contrast to the demo.

I hope this doesn't come across as me trying to sell the game. I honestly have no benefit whatsoever from people buying the game. I just spent many hours working on the game and rather have it find players who will get some fun time out of it and enjoy some of the fun stuff that we were able to put in than players who are inclined to hate it for all the stuff it doesn't do / have / include.

About the DLC... Basically what it will do is help you get a little headstart in the campaign. Those are basically packs equivalent to the ones you got when you preordered the game. If you start Day 2 with 4 of those rifles some earlier encounters will become a lot easier...

I'm having the opposite findings of kingschiebi. I couldn't get into JA2 but I am having fun with this. I'm two missions in having captured the airport and the town south. I also had to defend the airport. I currently have two medics (MD and the first woman) along with the first melee guy 'cause that's all I could afford.

Things I wished to be changed.

*Ability to remap keys.
*One of the annoying things I've found is while on a mission on a big map, I can click on a location on the minimap to move the camera there like in every RTS game I've played.
*When I have my mercs crouching or walking with their weapons aimed, they should be able to fire while moving.

I'm sure there are more things that could be tweaked by patching to make this more polished but I am really tired at the moment.

Edwin wrote:

I'm having the opposite findings of kingschiebi. I couldn't get into JA2 but I am having fun with this.

^ Feeling the same. I love Plan and Go.

Overall, it's certainly not perfect, but I'm having fun. I hope they continue to support the game now that it's out and, if not, that the modders will be able to make tweaks despite no SDK.

Oh, the pathing.

If the AI get stuck on pathing, it should be able to just go around the object instead of getting stuck there.

Edwin wrote:

I'm having the opposite findings of kingschiebi. I couldn't get into JA2 but I am having fun with this.

To be fair, I didn't say that I did not enjoy playing the game. It is just the unfinished look and the very limited options that ticked me off.
As I said, having the new command system with the old UI/Graphics, I would be totally happy.

kingschiebi wrote:
Edwin wrote:

I'm having the opposite findings of kingschiebi. I couldn't get into JA2 but I am having fun with this.

To be fair, I didn't say that I did not enjoy playing the game. It is just the unfinished look and the very limited options that ticked me off.
As I said, having the new command system with the old UI/Graphics, I would be totally happy.

I totally agree ( I also suggest to wait for a 20$~ price tag)! I think that people who played the original would be somewhat disappointed but the game is still enjoyable despite having very limited options compared to the original. Plan and go is one of it's strengths which makes it a very good tactical game with somewhat realistic feel to it . The AI is still kinda stupid.

My main current problems with the game is that I can't split stacks of items. It's super annoying when you got some valuables and the seller doesn't have money. you can split ammo by arming someone with a weapon though. This was useful when I got the urban warfare scar-l and had limited amount 5.56. Grunty has a M-14 and I gave the Scar to Barry.

Anyways let talk some star of game squad selection. My plan was to get Steroid (mechanic),Igor (nice gun and perks) , spider (great medic at 94 and nice camo). I quickly discovered steroid = problems with the ladies and that many mercs refused to work with me. I thought about getting an explosive expert at a later point. With steroid being out I had to take the only other choise - Barry which is a very good choise in general . Barry is a hybrid mechanic/explosive expert which makes him a very good support character . In JA2 I started preferring Barry over Red - Barry is more useful. My next choice was a medic to replace Spider I had a debate between md and fox . I took fox eventually she's good at stealth which is nice early on (pistols have short range) . My first choice as a shooter was Buns which of course refused to work with me so I got Grunty instead which comes with an SMG. My other problem was that I didn't have much of a choice and had to buy their equipment if I could give up on equipment I could have gotten an extra person and arm him/her as I go.

Many of the mercs changed a lot due to the fact throwing and ambidextrous traits are not in the game. Night ops is now not too useful without fog of war. Stealth is now a stat instead of a trait. Many of the mercs are not as useful as they used to be. Barry,Fox and Grunty is generally a good team. I still prefer spider but she turned in snob in BIA.

Another thing I notice is that the portraits have a German look .

Edit: EUREKA! I found how to split items - shift-Left click.

I would love this game if it wasn't for the fact i am so terrible at it.

Lucky Wilbury wrote:

I would love this game if it wasn't for the fact i am so terrible at it.

Just try the demo and save a lot - you'll get better ;). I still suggest waiting for a big discount.

-------
This might be a bit of a spoiler about recruiting but if you played the first game you may know about these things:

Spoiler:

If you guys are recruiting you should take this relationship chart into account . You should always recruit the haters first and the hated last. Spider still won't work with me even without Buns (DOH!) and I can't afford any of her friends like Vicki,Static or Raven. If you look at the chart you'll find everyone love spider especially the girls . Ivan is also a celebrity.

I'm having fun so far. It starts off much more gently than the demo. Also with the pre-order I got a urban combat kit drop (with SCAR rifle) that makes the second mission a bit easier. I went with Fox, Grunty and Igor for my initial squad.

My preview is finally published at ArmchairGeneral.com. A bit dated now, but there were extenuating circumstances on their end I believe.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/jagge...

I don't think that the preview code I got was the same as the demo, so I may have to go back and give it a try. I'm really excited you all are having fun with it.

I've finished the third mission with a quick stop over to free a water pump on the way. I'm digging the game, feels more to me like Commandos then it does JA. I think someone already mentioned this previously but I would absolutely dig a tactical SWAT/Rainbow6 type game using the P&G system in this game.

My only complaint at this point would be some kind of line of sight. Have a marker of some kind if you hear movement (either enemy or neutral) and then use the P&G system to carry out your attack. If you bust into a room that you don't know about and your character is suppose to move through space that is occupied by someone or something they have to move around past to keep on moving where you wanted them to go. It is to easy (so far) to know where each enemy is.

I've got a fix for the long loading intro movies which are in your Steam\steamapps\common\jabia\bin_win32\videos directory. Make a copy of the old movies and then rename a text file to the correct .WMV file. When you lauch it pauses at a black screen for a couple of seconds and then goes to the loading screen for the main menu.

I got a bit more advanced than 3 missions (I got more like 6) and had a lot of fun by getting MD to spray people through the window while Buns kicked the door on the other side and sprayed the other guard with her automatic pistol.

I got Spider to join me (at last ). I guess she doesn't hate Buns that much. The game is pretty challenging despite the fact the AI is being silly when it attacks (too bad the mortars were removed ). I got tons of guns now and more loot than I can carry but I'm not sure I want to give the militia a 2000$ gun. I've got buns an FN57 with a silencer and she is a mean shot. I got a little cash now so I guess I'll enlarge my army of 6+1 :).

The militia in this game isn't as plentiful as JA2 so they can't really defend anything. the enemy usually brings 7-9 vs 3 militia Maybe I should invest in some armor for them.

Edit: I found the patch notes on the patch that came out on release day . It was a 180MB download - I guess I didn't imagine it ;).

Giant Bomb quick look is up. Almost an hour long.

TheWanderer wrote:

My preview is finally published at ArmchairGeneral.com.

Didn't have time to read it from beginning to end yet but if you're still looking for insight on why there is no FoW in the final game, I'll gladly tell you more, once I find the time. My take on this subject takes a bit more time to write up than the short answer you got via Kalypso.

Only managed to find time to play the tutorial of the demo. Seemed polished enough. Nice looking game that's for sure. It kinda feels a bit like Fallout Tactics which is nice, but again, only playing the tutorial so far so that could be off.

Unfortunately, I don't have enough time at this stage to launch into this. So I'm probably going to wait for a sale and a patch or two. Considering I wasn't planning on buying anything else this year besides Mass Effect 3, this one definitely surprised me.

Feel free to unburden yourself, MEATER. I'm very happy to hear more. Also, you're a pretty hoopy frood for stopping by to chat about your game. I really appreciate that.

Has anyone figured out to shoot through walls? I saw a tool tip while loading a level that you can shoot through certain materials with a manual shot, but for the life of my mercs, I can't figure out how to do a manual shot.

I started off with a three man team that left me with only like $600 left in the bank account. I went skills heavy, so they are light on equipment. As a result, I've been scrambling for ammo and trying to get the mission done with pea shooters.

I think I'll rethink this.

Paleocon wrote:

I started off with a three man team that left me with only like $600 left in the bank account. I went skills heavy, so they are light on equipment. As a result, I've been scrambling for ammo and trying to get the mission done with pea shooters.

I think I'll rethink this.

You can do it. You have to be stealthy. I took out about half the bad guys by sneaking up on them from behind and taking them out with a knife.

Also:

Spoiler:

In the tower right by where you start, there is a silencer. That is especially handy for taking out mercs that you can't quite sneak up to.

Tkyl wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I started off with a three man team that left me with only like $600 left in the bank account. I went skills heavy, so they are light on equipment. As a result, I've been scrambling for ammo and trying to get the mission done with pea shooters.

I think I'll rethink this.

You can do it. You have to be stealthy. I took out about half the bad guys by sneaking up on them from behind and taking them out with a knife.

Also:

Spoiler:

In the tower right by where you start, there is a silencer. That is especially handy for taking out mercs that you can't quite sneak up to.

Doh. I didn't think to look up in the tower.

Anyway, I secured the airfield and the town to the south. Met with the priest and the woman in the bar. Now I have to travel west and liberate the miners at the town there. I'll probably visit the crash site there because I desperately need cash.

Edwin wrote:

Has anyone figured out to shoot through walls? I saw a tool tip while loading a level that you can shoot through certain materials with a manual shot, but for the life of my mercs, I can't figure out how to do a manual shot.

Click on their equipped gun and the right-click on the environment. Much like using a med pack, etc.

Paleocon wrote:

I started off with a three man team that left me with only like $600 left in the bank account. I went skills heavy, so they are light on equipment. As a result, I've been scrambling for ammo and trying to get the mission done with pea shooters.

I think I'll rethink this.

Who did you pick?

I'm drowning in ammo . just kill a bunch of people and you'll find it. You can also buy some from shops. As you conquer more points of intrest you'll gain daily income from there. There are also a few "hidden gems" you can use to make money . If you have a merc with 50+ mechanic you can fix weapons in the red(with the right tool) which make them more valuable . After fixing weapons you can then sell them for profit . I think the cheapest sold gun is worth 400$ fully fixed . If you are really desperate you can sell one of your starting guns for cash until you find something else.

You should also not go crazy with burst fire when you are low on ammo because some of the guns like the 93 can empty a magazine in 3 bursts . It's generally cheaper to shoot people in the head . you can also sneak up and melee them but I haven't tried that yet. I still noticed none shoots from point blank - they always melee from very short range.

TheWanderer wrote:

Feel free to unburden yourself, MEATER. I'm very happy to hear more. Also, you're a pretty hoopy frood for stopping by to chat about your game. I really appreciate that.

Haha. Thanks, but my main reason for showing up here was that I've been listening to the podcast since 2007 and thought the audience of the forum was mature enough to keep from flaming

Also, it's not my game. I just put a lot of work into it and was there from start to finish. Seems to be a common misconception about game designers that they are something similar to a movie director. Maybe in some cases but not in this one.

My answer actually turns out shorter than expected: Seems like bitComposer is putting together a list of things they want us to add to the game in the official forum and as part of that it seems likely that a Line of Sight (LoS) system will likely be added as an option. This will work pretty much to the LoS that JA2 had. So I guess that will make people happy who want a Fog of War (which for me is what they have in Starcraft where you have to reveal the map etc.)

We actually already had LoS in at some point of the development but received mostly negative feedback on how if affected the game. For one thing made using the Plan & Go system a lot harder or at least less efficient (e.g. you cannot plan going around a corner and shooting a guy since you do not have LoS).

I'm really curious how people will react when they see it in the game. Personally I would expect it to cater only to those player who are currently complaining that the game is far to easy and not challenging enough. And even those will probably save and load a lot when using it

Edwin wrote:

Has anyone figured out to shoot through walls? I saw a tool tip while loading a level that you can shoot through certain materials with a manual shot, but for the life of my mercs, I can't figure out how to do a manual shot.

Press F or left click the weapon of your merc. The cursor should turn into a cross hair then.