NFL 2011-2012 Off-Season Pre-Draft Catch-All

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If you were expecting an awards thing somewhere up in here, forget about it. Ran out of time and don't feel like perusing Deadspin in the hopes of finding stuff to fill out the gag awards. Anyway, down to business...

Giants 21 - Patriots 17: Almost as soon as the confetti cannons started firing (lucky for Indy the team colors are identical), I knew the whole "Eli Manning thinks he's as good as Tom Brady" thing would start going to 11. Yes, this is the second ring Manning has won at Brady's expense, both times with late drives (and spectacular receiver catches) to win the game. And of course now there will be people comparing Eli's career to Peyton, of course a.) Peyton has only one ring and b.) we don't know if Peyton will ever play again. However, lost in all this "Eli this, Eli that" banter will be how well the Giants' defense played and to a much lesser extent how well Tom Coughlin coached his team from being left for dead in the regular season to a Lombardi trophy and perhaps, just perhaps, snazzy jackets from Canton for him and his quarterback in the future. Of course, this being New York, chances are that all these good feelings will vanish the second the Giants lose a game.

Final Pick 'Em Results: As you'll note, the picks were dead even, 12 for either team. Oh, if only this was Vegas:

My record: 4-0

Your records:

Kush15: 4-0
Psych: 4-0
Paleocon: 4-0
Stele: 4-0
LupusUmbrus: 4-0
TempestBlayze: 4-0
Fedaykin98: 4-0
garion333: 4-0
thejustinbot: 4-0
oldmanscene24: 4-0
iaintgotnopants: 4-0
Secret Asian Man: 4-0

MilkmanDanimal: 0-4
Elliottx: 0-4
Atras: 0-4
Certis: 0-4
Minase: 0-4
bighoppa: 0-4
Xeknos: 0-4
Jayhawker: 0-4
boogle: 0-4
LeapingGnome: 0-4
tboon: 0-4
Iridium884: 0-4

And the final results for the postseason:

My record: 11-5

Your records:

Secret Asian Man: 13-3

Psych: 12-4
thejustinbot: 12-4
iaintgotnopants: 12-4

garion333: 11-5
Kush15: 11-5
Fedaykin98: 11-5

TempestBlayze: 10-6
Paleocon: 10-6

Certis: 9-7
Minase: 9-7
Stele: 9-7

Xeknos: 8-8
MilkmanDanimal: 8-8
oldmanscene24: 8-8

Elliottx: 7-9
tboon: 7-9

LeapingGnome: 6-10

bighoppa: 5-11
boogle: 5-11
Jayhawker: 5-11

TheGameguru: 6-6*

* = Yeah, still there.

As you can see the tie-breaker was not needed, so our winner is Secret Asian Man. They may have taken away your name, but you took the (fake) trophy. And, in case you missed it, here's the final results from the regular season:

My record: 59-26

Your guys' record:

boogle: 65-20

tboon: 60-25
TheGameguru: 60-25

Minase: 59-26

MilkmanDanimal: 58-27

Gumbie: 56-29

garion333: 55-30

oldmanscene24: 54-31
iaintgotnopants: 54-31
LeapingGnome: 54-31

Kush15: 53-32

Jayhawker: 52-33

Xeknos: 51-34

bighoppa: 50-35
Enix: 50-35

Elliotx: 45-39

*Legion*: 40-45

Once again, congratulations to boogle and Secret Asian Man for making us all look bad winning. And now for...wait, no more football until September? Dammit, Tom Brady's wife going on profane rants against Wes Welker can only be entertaining for so long, you know!

Enjoy the off-season, folks. Here's hoping you can find something entertaining to do with your Sundays.

Bring on the draft. The sooner 2012 starts, 2011 is more of a memory. Not that I have any negative feelings towards this past year.

Bring on the Draft! Bring on a normal free-agent signing period! Bring on a new receiver to the Texans!

Pretty excited about going into a draft with a team that's fairly loaded already. In every past year, Houstonians have felt like "we can't possibly get enough help in this draft to get where we need to be." This year it almost feels like anything we get will be gravy, although we do have a couple positions of need (additional WR and CB being two biggies).

For once I'm really optimistic about the 49ers next year. It's been... a while. I didn't buy into the pre-season hype a couple years back, when everyone predicted them to win the division and they started 0-5.

But finally, Harbaugh had made us winners again.

Where are the hookers and peyote I was promised?

It was indeed fun while it lasted - here's looking forward to next year!

Hey, I won. What was the prize? Cash?

Even with football done. I get to nitpick every decision of a new GM. If he also decides that we don't need a #1 receiver (Bears) because Hester is a #1. I'm going to go on a Archer-esqe rampage.

Secret Asian Man wrote:

Hey, I won. What was the prize? Cash?

Even with football done. I get to nitpick every decision of a new GM. If he also decides that we don't need a #1 receiver (Bears) because Hester is a #1. I'm going to go on a Archer-esqe rampage.

Wha? Hester is a #1 receiver. He's so legit that he puts Megatron to shame.

Patriots' needs are the same as almost every year, but exacerbated by the game last night: Secondary help (CB/S), Deep-Threat Wide Receiver (the corpse of Ochocinco caught the longest pass), and a Pass Rush OLB/DE. Granted, that describes about half the league, and assumes that Light and Waters come back....

They have two first-rounders, but will probably trade down.

Big Question: Where does Peyton go? I want predictions!

Iridium884 wrote:

Big Question: Where does Peyton go? I want predictions!

To the Pats!

A quick road to retirement. Wherever Peyton ends up I don't see him having much success in a new system and thus I don't see him working out for much more than one or two years...

I can't lie, I'd take Peyton if he wanted to come to Houston.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I can't lie, I'd take Peyton if he wanted to come to Houston.

For what? A year? Two? If he can even stay healthy and play at a high level. Then you're back looking for a QB and getting drubbed by Andrew Luck and the Colts.

Besides, we all know Kubiak and McNair have this whole overly loyal to crap players thing going. Why do you think Jacoby Jones and Kareem Jackson are still on the roster? They would never get rid of Schaub for Manning. For once, I thank them for it.

I don't see the Colts as our main problem until they change their philosophy and become a complete team. The only way they beat us this year was after we had tons of injuries and the refs still had to gift wrap the game to them.

Manning is maybe the greatest passer of all time. I don't think you turn that down.

Dammit, Tom Brady's wife going on profane rants against Wes Welker can only be entertaining for so long, you know!

I guess Welker won't be visiting that awesome toilet at Brady's house he was talking about!

Fedaykin98 wrote:

I can't lie, I'd take Peyton if he wanted to come to Houston.

Over T.J. Yates, sure.

I wouldn't dream of benching Matt Schaub in favor of Peyton Manning.

Schaub was every bit as effective of a passer in 2009 and 2010 as pre-injury Peyton Manning in those same seasons.

Schaub was throwing an awesome 8.5 yards per attempt this season before his injury. Peyton Manning hasn't been that productive per-pass in 6 years.

So, as a Jag fan, let me say, yes, by all means, dump Schaub and take post-injury Manning instead.

There's been talk that Peyton goes to the Broncos. While part of me thinks that's interesting, Denver isn't in a position to utilize him effectively.

My brother seems to think that Manning is going to Baltimore. I told him he's smoking dope.

Xeknos wrote:

There's been talk that Peyton goes to the Broncos. While part of me thinks that's interesting, Denver isn't in a position to utilize him effectively.

I do not see this happening. That'd be one of the most helter-skelter moves they could possibly make. If they did that, they'd have to release Tebow -- you couldn't have two QB's from a more divergent style of play. Not to say I wouldn't love to see Manning in Denver, but it just does not seem to be a good fit for him or the team (coaching style or otherwise).

There's lots of talk about the Redskins, but I don't see him choosing the same division as his brother.

The one spot that makes the most sense to me is Miami. Nice, warm location (good for a stiff neck), still in the AFC, gets to play Brady a few times a year, on a team with Marshall and Bush... It seems like the right fit for him.

sheared wrote:
Xeknos wrote:

There's been talk that Peyton goes to the Broncos. While part of me thinks that's interesting, Denver isn't in a position to utilize him effectively.

I do not see this happening. That'd be one of the most helter-skelter moves they could possibly make. If they did that, they'd have to release Tebow -- you couldn't have two QB's from a more divergent style of play. Not to say I wouldn't love to see Manning in Denver, but it just does not seem to be a good fit for him or the team (coaching style or otherwise).

There's lots of talk about the Redskins, but I don't see him choosing the same division as his brother.

The one spot that makes the most sense to me is Miami. Nice, warm location (good for a stiff neck), still in the AFC, gets to play Brady a few times a year, on a team with Marshall and Bush... It seems like the right fit for him.

I think the whole reason Peyton would be interested in coming back at all would be to chase after a championship ring. He is unlikely to get one of those with Washington since that organization is so completely dysfunctional that they can completely f*ck up something as simple as giving Carlos Rogers an eye examination (why he sucked in DC and made the pro bowl with SF this year).

I, honestly, see him going to a stacked team with good, young players in a soft division where he can be guaranteed a spot in the playoffs every year. That doesn't describe the Redskins where the horrible O-line and questionable receiver corps combined with the brutal defenses of NY, Philly, and Dallas will put him on his back a whole lot for 6 games/year.

It does, however, describe San Francisco where Alex Smith is in the final year of his contract....

Paleocon wrote:

My brother seems to think that Manning is going to Baltimore. I told him he's smoking dope.

Yes, let's bring someone in who will choke in the championship game.

garion333 wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

My brother seems to think that Manning is going to Baltimore. I told him he's smoking dope.

Yes, let's bring someone in who will choke in the championship game. ;)

As much as this town rags on Flacco, I actually think that Flacco is easily good enough to win a Superbowl. He may not be one of the elite quarterbacks, but as far as I'm concerned, there are only three of them currently playing (Rogers, Brees, and Eli Manning) and other teams simply need to build their strategies around the strengths they have.

The biggest issue I can see when it comes to Baltimore is Cam Cameron. His overly conservative play calling pretty much dares our own defense to win the game for us, but does very little if anything to help it. Against New England, we should have spread the offense and taken advantage of an extremely weak secondary. The times Flacco was sacked were because New England dropped 5 into coverage against 3 receivers and the clock ran out on the pass protection. You don't win games when you stay that vanilla.

Had we opened it up just a little more against the Jags, Seahawks, or Titans, there is no doubt in my mind we would have played the AFC Championship game in M&T, where Brady would have been unable to efficiently run the no huddle because of the deafening crowd noise.

sheared - Everything I've heard suggests Peyton only wants to play for an immediate contender, as Paleo says, to chase rings. I don't think he's going to Miami.

Regardless of whether I'd be crazy to trade an injury-prone Schaub for an injured Peyton, it's nice to have the Texans be on the "you shouldn't want him" side of the discussion rather than the "he shouldn't want you" side.

If anyone is finding these repeated statements about how this feels good to be obnoxious, I'm sorry. We've been like virgins in a whorehouse for 10 years here, watching everyone else have fun, and we just finally started getting some action.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

sheared - Everything I've heard suggests Peyton only wants to play for an immediate contender, as Paleo says, to chase rings. I don't think he's going to Miami.

Regardless of whether I'd be crazy to trade an injury-prone Schaub for an injured Peyton, it's nice to have the Texans be on the "you shouldn't want him" side of the discussion rather than the "he shouldn't want you" side.

If anyone is finding these repeated statements about how this feels good to be obnoxious, I'm sorry. We've been like virgins in a whorehouse for 10 years here, watching everyone else have fun, and we just finally started getting some action. :lol:

Houston wouldn't be a bad place for him to land either. He's not going to see fierce pass rush from his division and Houston's spread offense plays very well into his strengths (quick release to speedy receivers who can run routes). It also gives him the ability to embarrass Irsay twice a year for treating him piss poorly.

The Texans also give him something he never really had at Indy: a real defense. It sounds a bit odd for that to be a solid consideration for a QB, but what it does for him is lets him take even bigger gambles with the ball downfield than he has historically passed up at Indy because he can have confidence that the defense can dig him out of bad field position.

And despite their record, I honestly don't think it would be bad for him to go to KC either. They are a very tough team that could really be one or two players away from making a run at the division and deep implications in the playoffs. I'm not saying they are one or two away from a championship, but the possibilities are intriguing.

If I had to put together my short list, I would say it looks sort of like this in order:

1) San Francisco Forty Niners
2) New Jersey Jets
3) Houston Texans
4) Kansas City Chiefs

I think a good Peyton makes any of the non-St. Louis teams a threat. The 49ers have been awful for years, and one good year doesn't mean they've fully turned the corner; weird stuff happens. A Peyton-led Seattle or Arizona team suddenly has a shot at that division just as well as the 49ers. Those three times really seem the only plausible NFC teams, though, as I agree with the "not going to the Redskins no matter what" due to the dysfunctional organization.

Could we at least get another Football Cops out of Peyton and Eli?

Paleocon wrote:
garion333 wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

My brother seems to think that Manning is going to Baltimore. I told him he's smoking dope.

Yes, let's bring someone in who will choke in the championship game. ;)

As much as this town rags on Flacco, I actually think that Flacco is easily good enough to win a Superbowl. He may not be one of the elite quarterbacks, but as far as I'm concerned, there are only three of them currently playing (Rogers, Brees, and Eli Manning) and other teams simply need to build their strategies around the strengths they have.

The biggest issue I can see when it comes to Baltimore is Cam Cameron. His overly conservative play calling pretty much dares our own defense to win the game for us, but does very little if anything to help it. Against New England, we should have spread the offense and taken advantage of an extremely weak secondary. The times Flacco was sacked were because New England dropped 5 into coverage against 3 receivers and the clock ran out on the pass protection. You don't win games when you stay that vanilla.

Had we opened it up just a little more against the Jags, Seahawks, or Titans, there is no doubt in my mind we would have played the AFC Championship game in M&T, where Brady would have been unable to efficiently run the no huddle because of the deafening crowd noise.

Oh, I agree with all of this, I was simply being snarky. I'm not thrilled Cam Cameron was retained. Not. At. All.

Manning the Elder isn't the only QB we should be looking at this off-season.

What about Tom Brady?

No, he's in no danger of leaving New England. He's still an elite QB, almost certainly a first-ballot Hall of Famer. He has three rings and just took the Pats to their second Super Bowl in four years.

But he's 34 years old and hasn't won a Super Bowl in seven (!) years. Indeed, he has lost the last two. On Sunday, with a minute on the clock and 80 yards between him and Ring No. 4, he didn't get it done.

You figure Brady has, what, three good years left? Five at the outside? If you're the Pats, what do you do? Hope Brady can pull out another Super Bowl win or two in the next couple of years? Do you start grooming Ryan Mallett and hope he's content to be No. 2 for a few more years? Do you ride Brady till he drops (like Manning) and suffer through an awful year (or two) in hopes that a franchise QB drops into your lap?

Brady has been the face of the franchise for so long -- and as responsible for the team's recent success as Bill Belichick -- that it's hard to imagine the Patriots without him. But that day is coming.

P.S. You're not off the hook either, Giants Fan. Tom Coughlin is 140 years old or thereabouts. How much longer can he coach?

Enix wrote:

Manning the Elder isn't the only QB we should be looking at this off-season.

What about Tom Brady?

No, he's in no danger of leaving New England. He's still an elite QB, almost certainly a first-ballot Hall of Famer. He has three rings and just took the Pats to their second Super Bowl in four years.

But he's 34 years old and hasn't won a Super Bowl in seven (!) years. Indeed, he has lost the last two. On Sunday, with a minute on the clock and 80 yards between him and Ring No. 4, he didn't get it done.

You figure Brady has, what, three good years left? Five at the outside? If you're the Pats, what do you do? Hope Brady can pull out another Super Bowl win or two in the next couple of years? Do you start grooming Ryan Mallett and hope he's content to be No. 2 for a few more years? Do you ride Brady till he drops (like Manning) and suffer through an awful year (or two) in hopes that a franchise QB drops into your lap?

Brady has been the face of the franchise for so long -- and as responsible for the team's recent success as Bill Belichick -- that it's hard to imagine the Patriots without him. But that day is coming.

P.S. You're not off the hook either, Giants Fan. Tom Coughlin is 140 years old or thereabouts. How much longer can he coach?

Oddly enough, I think that the Pats will be just fine irrespective of what happens to Brady. Sure, he is an elite QB, but they managed to 10-6 in a year without him (and still managed to miss the playoffs in what can only be described as the bizarre nature of the NFL).

I honestly think that the strength of the Pats passing game is only partially Brady and in large part just the Belichick system. It pains me to say this of course because I can't stand the dark lord, but I honestly think he has something there of which other teams really should be taking note. The danger that a Brady-less Pats team will implode Indy style is a very remote one. Moreover, the Pats (much like the Ravens) seem to run their organization like a highly efficient business. They recognize that they can't be terribly sentimental about personnel decisions and are not beyond cutting marquee players like Ty Law when the math just doesn't make any sense anymore.

When it is time for Brady to go, there won't be a lot of drama. It will just happen. He might get two or three more good years at another team, but it will have been the right decision.

This is why winning Super Bowls is an utterly pointless stat for individual players. Tom Brady lost his last two Super Bowls? Really? He did? The first Pats-Giants Super Bowl would have been over if Asante Samuel had made an INT he's made many times before and/or the insane "Eli escapes Richard Seymour, and nobody David Tyree makes an insanely difficult catch" play hadn't happened. Two unlikely events. This one? Welker drops a pass that, while difficult, he typically makes. Then Mario Manningham catches a very difficult ball, and he's not exactly known for his consistency. Again, unlikely stuff. As for the wins, all three of the Pats victories were very last-minute, two of them depending on a kicker. There are a whole host of tiny things that could have changed, and Brady would have five or zero rings, depending on just those bounces. They don't change how he played.

If Gronkowski is a half-step forward in the end zone on the Hail Mary, he catches that deflected ball. The play would be the singly luckiest play in the history of football; the fact that it just happened to bounce right doesn't mean Brady is better or worse.

Ranking players based on Super Bowl wins is pointless. Performance? Sure, but Brady has played well enough to win both the Giants games, and came very close in both. Likewise, outside of that one play, Eli didn't play particularly well in the first SB matchup, and that was one of those "somebody has to be MVP, so let's give it to the QB" things (this SB, he played damn well and deserved it). Brady has played well enough to get his team into the playoffs consistently and to get into these two Super Bowls, and yes, that's all you can use to rank a player.

/petpeeve

Paleocon wrote:

Oddly enough, I think that the Pats will be just fine irrespective of what happens to Brady. Sure, he is an elite QB, but they managed to 10-6 in a year without him (and still managed to miss the playoffs in what can only be described as the bizarre nature of the NFL).

They went 11-5 and didn't make playoffs. I don't think they beat any great teams that season though.

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