Tebow is the Eminem of the NFL

Dysplastic wrote:

My problem with Tebow is with the notion that God or Jesus or whoever cares more about helping you win your football game than helping those who are actually suffering.

It doesn't sound like some Christian doctrine views the involvement of God or Jesus as limited to serious problems. I thought it was the opposite. No matter how dull you are as a person or insignificant your daily activities, there's Jesus standing next to you helping you out.

TheGameguru wrote:
I'm still struggling with the concept that Eminem is considered talented...or even good. Then I remember that for commercial rap I guess he would be considered talented.
Wow. Well, a lot of us consider him to be quite talented. He's skilled, technically proficient and just interesting to listen to. Plus he managed to make a movie that was half decent which most musicians never do. He's talented.

Growing up in West Philly during the formation of rap.. obviously I hold it to a higher place than most people would... since I was "around" one of the four "ecosystems" that contributed to the art form.

I could throw out dozens of rappers underground (white..hispanic...black whatever) that are light years more talented than Eminem.. but I acknowledge to the untrained that he is a white rapper..and commercial and thus "talented" lol.

He isn't even the most talented from Detroit ironically...and I have just a fair knowledge of the underground scene from Detroit.

Funkenpants wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

My problem with Tebow is with the notion that God or Jesus or whoever cares more about helping you win your football game than helping those who are actually suffering.

It doesn't sound like some Christian doctrine views the involvement of God or Jesus as limited to serious problems. I thought it was the opposite. No matter how dull you are as a person or insignificant your daily activities, there's Jesus standing next to you helping you out.

But why is Jesus helping out Tim Tebow? I'm sure there are millions of people who pray to him that could use his help much more than Tebow could use that completion in the 4th quarter.

Farscry wrote:

It's as if he's Jesus Christ reborn as an NFL quarterback, and a walking poster-child for the pro-life movement. *shrug*

Nonsense, everyone knows that Jesus can throw a thirty yard out on a frozen rope. It's common knowledge that Jesus has a CANNON for an arm!!

Now as for scrambling, well Tebow win's that one because cleats > sandals.

Dysplastic wrote:

My problem with Tebow is with the notion that God or Jesus or whoever cares more about helping you win your football game than helping those who are actually suffering.

But has he done anything to give you that impression? MacBrave's link is one that implies to me he cares quite a bit about the suffering of others.

Take his perspective again. He's a football player. He prays during games. I don't see how you can meaningfully hold that against him. He may be praying for world peace and the end of starvation, or he may just be praying about what he's doing at the moment. We don't know, but neither one is certainly going to hurt anybody.

I don't necessarily have a problem with Tebow personally - he actually seems like a nice guy who does care about others. My problem is more with Tebow as a cultural phenomenon, if you will. The implication of the narrative that's been struck up around Tebow is that, because he's seen as a sub-par NFL quarterback who somehow manages miraculous comebacks, while praying and giving glory to God, is that God/Jesus is actually manifestly helping him win the game. This idea boggles me.

I don't know if Tebow himself feels like Jesus comes out and helps him on the field, or whether he just does his best and everything he does is inspired by his faith, but the narrative is out of his control at this point, and it's that that bothers me.

I don't mind that dudebro prays. I think prayer's pretty good stuff, actually. I do, however, think that the manner in which he prays is both tacky and contrary to direct instruction from Jesus.

Now, on to more pressing issues:

Bear wrote:
Farscry wrote:

It's as if he's Jesus Christ reborn as an NFL quarterback, and a walking poster-child for the pro-life movement. *shrug*

Nonsense, everyone knows that Jesus can throw a thirty yard out on a frozen rope. It's common knowledge that Jesus has a CANNON for an arm!!

Now as for scrambling, well Tebow win's that one because cleats > sandals.

He could've played guitar better than Hendrix.
He could've told the future.
He could've baked the most delicious cake in the world.
He could've scored more goals than Wayne Gretzky.
He could've danced better than Baryshnikov.

4xis.black wrote:
wordsmythe wrote:
Thin_J wrote:
NathanialG wrote:

Whoa. Eminem has real talent. It isnt just that he is a white rapper, the man has amazing rhymes and some things to say. Tebow is just some mediocre QB that got lucky and will not stick around for over a decade. There is no real comparison.

He says it so the rest of us don't have to.

I'm sure he's gotten better since I decided not to pay attention to him.

Would you believe he is exactly the same as he was when he debuted?

Wait ... are we talking Eminem or Tebow?

Miashara wrote:

Take his perspective again. He's a football player. He prays during games. I don't see how you can meaningfully hold that against him. He may be praying for world peace and the end of starvation, or he may just be praying about what he's doing at the moment. We don't know, but neither one is certainly going to hurt anybody.

I hold it against him because it's only accepted because he's praying to a Christian god.

As others have mentioned if he prostrated himself towards Mecca they'd go ape sh*t. If he painted "There is no God" instead of a Bible verse under his eyes people would be screaming for him ejected from the NFL and many would call for his death.

And, as an atheist, it does hurt me because it only reinforces the evangelical idea that religion needs to be injected in every aspect of life.

OG_slinger wrote:

I hold it against him because it's only accepted because he's praying to a Christian god.

So let me get this straight. You're holding other people's intolerance, one he has no indication of sharing, against him?

I don't hold anything against Tebow. That's not what this thread is about. Tebow is, simply put, a very bad quarterback whose skills simply do not apply to the pro game, like many other great college QBs before. This thread is about the ridiculous amount of hype and attention Tebow has received, and whether it's related to his race, which seems more than blatantly obvious. Yes, it's that he's white, and he's evangelical, and he's therefore the poster child for awesome for large chunks of the population of this country. There have been many very religious athletes, but none of them have received the Tebow treatment, because they haven't been the perfect embodiment of a belief system.

If Tim Tebow had darker skin and the exact same points of view, does anyone honestly think he'd be receiving the same amount of attention?

OG_slinger wrote:

I hold it against him because it's only accepted because he's praying to god in a Christian context.

As others have mentioned if he prostrated himself towards Mecca they'd go ape sh*t.

Each day is a battle for me not to be super pedantic all the time, and I lost this one, so I FTALBFY, with kindness, because I agree with the overall point. The Judeo-Christian faiths all share the same deity, and yet those who raise all the Cain don't recognize that, which simply makes it that much more infuriatingly silly.

Miashara wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

I hold it against him because it's only accepted because he's praying to a Christian god.

So let me get this straight. You're holding other people's intolerance, one he has no indication of sharing, against him?

I believe he is actually holding a cultural hypocrisy and prejudice against itself.

Dysplastic wrote:

I don't know if Tebow himself feels like Jesus comes out and helps him on the field, or whether he just does his best and everything he does is inspired by his faith, but the narrative is out of his control at this point, and it's that that bothers me.

If the narrative start impinging on life outside church, I get the concern. But I don't see that with the Tebow story right now. If religious people want to view him as an inspiration and aren't demanding that I also view the guy as an inspiration, it's not having an negative impact on my life.

Miashara wrote:

So let me get this straight. You're holding other people's intolerance, one he has no indication of sharing, against him?

Really? Tebow doesn't want to share his intolerance? Then why is he the poster child for Focus on the Family, the same famously tolerant group that nearly bankrupted themselves giving money to support and defend Prop 8 in California?

It's pretty danged clear that in reality "other people's intolerance" actually means "crazy sh*t that most other evangelicals like Tebow would do (in the name of Jesus, of course)". You can't simply brush that off. These are the same upstanding, tolerant Christians who are sending death threats to a 16-year-old girl because she opposed having a prayer banner hung in her school.

Again, the media spectacle of Tebow is only tolerated because he's white and Christian. Change that and his behavior would instantly go from something that was comforting/inspiring to a large swath of America to something that was seen as a threat (praying to Mecca) or an insult ("There is no god").

Funkenpants wrote:
Dysplastic wrote:

I don't know if Tebow himself feels like Jesus comes out and helps him on the field, or whether he just does his best and everything he does is inspired by his faith, but the narrative is out of his control at this point, and it's that that bothers me.

If the narrative start impinging on life outside church, I get the concern. But I don't see that with the Tebow story right now. If religious people want to view him as an inspiration and aren't demanding that I also view the guy as an inspiration, it's not having an negative impact on my life.

It's probably that the narrative is impinging on everyone's life. I don't care about football at all, yet I know who this guy is and a fair deal about his personal life because other people won't shut up about him. I can only imagine how annoying it must be to people who actually follow football.

Stengah wrote:

It's probably that the narrative is impinging on everyone's life. I don't care about football at all, yet I know who this guy is and a fair deal about his personal life because other people won't shut up about him. I can only imagine how annoying it must be to people who actually follow football.

This happens with all sorts of stories that are raging in the media. It would be nice if we didn't have to hear co-workers or friends talk about stuff that bores us, but that's not realistic.

wordsmythe wrote:

He could've played guitar better than Hendrix.
He could've told the future.
He could've baked the most delicious cake in the world.
He could've scored more goals than Wayne Gretzky.
He could've danced better than Baryshnikov.

That's so cool!

Funkenpants wrote:
Stengah wrote:

It's probably that the narrative is impinging on everyone's life. I don't care about football at all, yet I know who this guy is and a fair deal about his personal life because other people won't shut up about him. I can only imagine how annoying it must be to people who actually follow football.

This happens with all sorts of stories that are raging in the media. It would be nice if we didn't have to hear co-workers or friends talk about stuff that bores us, but that's not realistic.

Exactly. It's not surprising that people get sick of other stories, why is it so surprising that people are sick of this one?

OG_slinger wrote:
Miashara wrote:

So let me get this straight. You're holding other people's intolerance, one he has no indication of sharing, against him?

Really? Tebow doesn't want to share his intolerance? Then why is he the poster child for Focus on the Family, the same famously tolerant group that nearly bankrupted themselves giving money to support and defend Prop 8 in California?

It's pretty danged clear that in reality "other people's intolerance" actually means "crazy sh*t that most other evangelicals like Tebow would do (in the name of Jesus, of course)". You can't simply brush that off. These are the same upstanding, tolerant Christians who are sending death threats to a 16-year-old girl because she opposed having a prayer banner hung in her school.

Again, the media spectacle of Tebow is only tolerated because he's white and Christian. Change that and his behavior would instantly go from something that was comforting/inspiring to a large swath of America to something that was seen as a threat (praying to Mecca) or an insult ("There is no god").

Bingo.

I think we all need to calm down and say to ourselves:

"What would Brian Boitano do?"

Stengah wrote:

Exactly. It's not surprising that people get sick of other stories, why is it so surprising that people are sick of this one?

Being a bit bored by other people wasn't what I had in mind when I replied to Dysplatic as far as negative impacts go.

SallyNasty wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:
Miashara wrote:

So let me get this straight. You're holding other people's intolerance, one he has no indication of sharing, against him?

Really? Tebow doesn't want to share his intolerance? Then why is he the poster child for Focus on the Family, the same famously tolerant group that nearly bankrupted themselves giving money to support and defend Prop 8 in California?

It's pretty danged clear that in reality "other people's intolerance" actually means "crazy sh*t that most other evangelicals like Tebow would do (in the name of Jesus, of course)". You can't simply brush that off. These are the same upstanding, tolerant Christians who are sending death threats to a 16-year-old girl because she opposed having a prayer banner hung in her school.

Again, the media spectacle of Tebow is only tolerated because he's white and Christian. Change that and his behavior would instantly go from something that was comforting/inspiring to a large swath of America to something that was seen as a threat (praying to Mecca) or an insult ("There is no god").

Bingo.

Odd. I read the article and didn't see anything about Tebow or Focus on the Family sending death threats. How are you making the connection? It seems disengenuous at least to attribute the idiotic things, like threats of violence over a banner, to all Christians, while not doing the same for the good things, like taking time out of a busy game day to spend time with sick and/or dying kids to try and bring some light and cheer into their lives. I don't care if you are Hindu or Mormon, taking time to help hurting children is great!

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/rIRqB.jpg)

Funkenpants wrote:
Stengah wrote:

Exactly. It's not surprising that people get sick of other stories, why is it so surprising that people are sick of this one?

Being a bit bored by other people wasn't what I had in mind when I replied to Dysplatic as far as negative impacts go.

It's not just that people are tired of the story, it's that the story is a little bit offensive in itself. My main take-away from Tebow stories is that being an evangelical christian is the reason for his team's victories. The apparently really good defense the rest the team does only gets mentioned in articles that are critical of him. Everyone else is talking about how he's the best thing to happen to the NFL. It doesn't sound offensive until you consider that it heavily implies that people not like him (non-whites and/or non-christians) are somehow inferior (or at least not good for the NFL).

I've got nothing against Tebow himself (though I do think he could thank his god is a less showy way), it's the people who are offering him up as the ideal football player that bug me. If he were an objectively good player it wouldn't be much of an issue, but like I said earlier, it seems that his religion somehow is more important than his ability.

Stengah wrote:

My main take-away from Tebow stories is that being an evangelical christian is the reason for his team's victories.

You're going to have to post some links. It's hard to know how to respond to someone's impression without looking at source material. Stories like this don't fit that analysis:

“I think my teammates make me look a lot better than I am,” Tebow said after Sunday’s 13-10 win over the Bears. “They really stepped up and came up with some huge plays, and I’m so proud of them. And the way [Demaryius Thomas] stepped up on that last drive. You know, just good for him. I’m very proud of those guys. I think that is a character quality of a good team...“I don’t think it’s ‘Tebow Time,’” Tebow said. “I just think it’s ‘Bronco Time,’ and the team steps up as a team.”

I also haven't seen articles implying that him being a white guy is important for the NFL. Since the top three elite quarterbacks this year are also white, it would be an odd angle to take.

Nomad wrote:

Odd. I read the article and didn't see anything about Tebow or Focus on the Family sending death threats. How are you making the connection? It seems disengenuous at least to attribute the idiotic things, like threats of violence over a banner, to all Christians, while not doing the same for the good things, like taking time out of a busy game day to spend time with sick and/or dying kids to try and bring some light and cheer into their lives. I don't care if you are Hindu or Mormon, taking time to help hurting children is great!

Did I say that Tebow was making death threats? No. I said it was the same idiots who think he's the bee's knees who are the type of people who send death threats to a teenager.
The connection is that they both self-identify as Christians.

I can't help it that so-called Christians think it's appropriate to threaten someone with death because they believe in something different than them. That's on Christians and, bringing it back to the point my response was about, how Christians, especially the evangelical types, are pretty danged intolerant of anything other than evangelical Christianity.

Funkenpants wrote:
Stengah wrote:

My main take-away from Tebow stories is that being an evangelical christian is the reason for his team's victories.

You're going to have to post some links. It's hard to know how to respond to someone's impression without looking at source material.

I also haven't seen articles implying that him being a white guy is important for the NFL. Since the top three elite quarterbacks this year are also white, it would be an odd angle to take.

Articles like this. To be fair, I'm not exactly going out of my way to read anything about him, just commenting based on what I've been exposed to (lots of facebook posts). I'm also not trying to imply that Tebow thinks he's better than anyone. Everything I've seen indicates that he's a pretty humble guy, and aware that without the rest of his team he'd be no where. The complaint is that other people are making a big deal of his faith and ignoring the rest of his team.
I haven't seen any articles saying his skin color matters either. I think that part of it arises from the fact that there are black players that are much more talented that don't receive anywhere near the same level of attention Tebow is getting right now.

Stengah wrote:
Funkenpants wrote:
Stengah wrote:

My main take-away from Tebow stories is that being an evangelical christian is the reason for his team's victories.

You're going to have to post some links. It's hard to know how to respond to someone's impression without looking at source material.

I also haven't seen articles implying that him being a white guy is important for the NFL. Since the top three elite quarterbacks this year are also white, it would be an odd angle to take.

Articles like this. To be fair, I'm not exactly going out of my way to read anything about him, just commenting based on what I've been exposed to (lots of facebook posts). I'm also not trying to imply that Tebow thinks he's better than anyone. Everything I've seen indicates that he's a pretty humble guy, and aware that without the rest of his team he'd be no where. The complaint is that other people are making a big deal of his faith and ignoring the rest of his team.
I haven't seen any articles saying his skin color matters either. I think that part of it arises from the fact that there are black players that are much more talented that don't receive anywhere near the same level of attention Tebow is getting right now.

Absolutely and completely what you said. I am obsessed with the NFL, and the Tebow thing drives me crazy. Not because of Tebow who, though I disagree with him on all sorts of things, I recognize that he seems to be a genuinely nice and caring guy (as long as you aren't gay, I would assume), and he's a decent kid. He's a kid who was utterly carried by his team, and the story about Denver this year should be about rookie LB Vonn Miller, who was simply amazing. How many non-football watchers know who Von Miller is? Granted, it's not the glory position of QB, but he was so much better than Tebow this year it can't even be described. As a football guy, I'm just tired of hearing about Tebow constantly when he was a giant drag on his team.

Tebow's skin color matters because he is more or less a walking Tea Party orgasm; he's a clean-cut, publicly virginal, overtly evangelical, honestly decent kid who does charity and is telegenic. He's a wet dream for a big set of the population. If he was exactly the same kid except his skin color was different, I can't imagine anyone suggesting he'd have the same level of hype.

Stengah wrote:

Articles like this.

Dowd is a former political operative for Bush, and the Note is a political blog. I agree that this sort of article is very silly. It's a way for them to generate page hits by posting something provocative about something in the news. I don't see that sort of thing as a huge portion of the coverage, but it's out there.

Do tea partiers not love Cam Newton or RG3? Oh wait, they don't .

Nomad wrote:
SallyNasty wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:
Miashara wrote:

So let me get this straight. You're holding other people's intolerance, one he has no indication of sharing, against him?

Really? Tebow doesn't want to share his intolerance? Then why is he the poster child for Focus on the Family, the same famously tolerant group that nearly bankrupted themselves giving money to support and defend Prop 8 in California?

It's pretty danged clear that in reality "other people's intolerance" actually means "crazy sh*t that most other evangelicals like Tebow would do (in the name of Jesus, of course)". You can't simply brush that off. These are the same upstanding, tolerant Christians who are sending death threats to a 16-year-old girl because she opposed having a prayer banner hung in her school.

Again, the media spectacle of Tebow is only tolerated because he's white and Christian. Change that and his behavior would instantly go from something that was comforting/inspiring to a large swath of America to something that was seen as a threat (praying to Mecca) or an insult ("There is no god").

Bingo.

Odd. I read the article and didn't see anything about Tebow or Focus on the Family sending death threats. How are you making the connection? It seems disengenuous at least to attribute the idiotic things, like threats of violence over a banner, to all Christians, while not doing the same for the good things, like taking time out of a busy game day to spend time with sick and/or dying kids to try and bring some light and cheer into their lives. I don't care if you are Hindu or Mormon, taking time to help hurting children is great!

Tebow's done advertisements for FOTF in the past. I believe that's the connection.

Miashara wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

I hold it against him because it's only accepted because he's praying to a Christian god.

So let me get this straight. You're holding other people's intolerance, one he has no indication of sharing, against him?

Beyond Tebow himself, there's a (probably unknowing) flaunting of privilege going on here. His actions get the response they do because of his privileged position not only as QB, but also as a white Christian.

Interestingly, I think that of he were exactly the same, except black, it wouldn't be condemned. I think it would be accepted but also mostly ignored.