NFL 2011 Divisional Playoff Round

Jeff-66 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

This is why I hate the Pats and Brady.. clearly that ball was influenced by the ground.. but yet.. touchdown.

That was legal. The ball can touch the ground in the endzone, if the player maintains control.

Thin_J wrote:

I'm enjoying this.

A lot.

Likewise.

A whole, whole lot. I hope tebow-mania dies tonight. I don't think he'll be Denver's starting QB for another game, this season or next.

how so? It's the exact same as a catch outside the endzone the receiver has to maintain control of the ball throughout the entire process of making the catch. The ball was clearly moving on the ground without clear possession. Should have been overturned as I've seen it done so many times before.

edit: From the NFL rules

If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.
TheGameguru wrote:
Jeff-66 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

how so? It's the exact same as a catch outside the endzone the receiver has to maintain control of the ball throughout the entire process of making the catch. The ball was clearly moving on the ground without clear possession. Should have been overturned as I've seen it done so many times before.

I'm just stating what the rule says. The ball can make contact with the ground on a TD catch. It's your opinion that he didn't have control, but the officials reviewing the play disagree.

give me a break.. the video clearly showed the ball moving on the ground..

No, it didn't. I saw a catch, and I'm not the least bit biased (except for wanting tebow-mania to die). It was far from "clearly not a catch".

Jeff-66 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

how so? It's the exact same as a catch outside the endzone the receiver has to maintain control of the ball throughout the entire process of making the catch. The ball was clearly moving on the ground without clear possession. Should have been overturned as I've seen it done so many times before.

I'm just stating what the rule says. The ball can make contact with the ground on a TD catch. It's your opinion that he didn't have control, but the officials reviewing the play disagree.

give me a break.. the video clearly showed the ball moving on the ground..

to be even more clear.. yes of course the officials disagreed.. just like Troy Polamalu int of Peyton Manning in that playoff game was reviewed by the officials and they disagreed it was an int.

I know, let's make ten more posts going back and forth, making the same point.

Can we focus on what's important here? Clearly Tom Brady is going for 10 TDs. Do they sit him soon?

There might be a more wrong person in the world.. but I'm not sure. It's moot anyway.. since its like 75-7 at this point or something.

Also your interpretation of the rules is suspect.. no difference in field of play or endzone on what is a catch.

Certis wrote:

I know, let's make ten more posts going back and forth, making the same point.

Can we focus on what's important here? Clearly Tom Brady is going for 10 TDs. Do they sit him soon?

I hope not.. how else will he break a leg or something?... unless he trips over the Gatorade or something.

What I find most amusing is that they're down 42-7 and they're still attempting to run because they don't want to let Tebow try to throw.

Also, I hope they don't sit him. Let's see him beat his 8 TD single game record.

I can't blame Tebow for this blowout, he's not out there giving up 6 TDs. However, his stat line is currently lacking.

Patriots lose next week to the winner of the Texans/Ravens.

Kush15 wrote:

I can't blame Tebow for this blowout, he's not out there giving up 6 TDs. However, his stat line is currently lacking.

Patriots lose next week to the winner of the Texans/Ravens.

Sure you can. You can blame him and the rest of the offense for not scoring more against one of the leagues very worst defenses.

I like Tebow but he is not an NFL QB and the Denver offense isn't built around supporting the type of QB he can be. The good thing is that next week we'll be Tebow free from ESPN.

Ugh, why do I get the feeling the Niners' colossal achievement is going to get drowned in Tebow talk come Monday (barring anything that happens on Sunday, naturally)?

Thin_J wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

I can't blame Tebow for this blowout, he's not out there giving up 6 TDs. However, his stat line is currently lacking.

Patriots lose next week to the winner of the Texans/Ravens.

Sure you can. You can blame him and the rest of the offense for not scoring more against one of the leagues very worst defenses.

So you can blame the rest of the NFL for allowing the leagues worst defense to be the #1 AFC team in the playoffs this year, too. I'm a Broncos fan, and like what Tebow brings to the game, but I just laugh at all the comments like this that make it seem like Tebow wouldn't be in this position at all if it weren't for the Broncos defense saving his butt throughout this season.

When you look back at the games that the Broncos won during their run, exactly how many of the defensive stars were missing? It was always the QB or the RB or some other important piece of the opposing team's offense. So people would get on here and say how lucky it was that the Broncos defense kept the game close, when in reality, the Broncos defense was always lucky they were going up against a "man-down" offense. The Denver offense was predominately (but not always) going up against full strength defenses.

I'm not going to defend what happened tonight. I think the play calling was about as conservative as we've seen -- maybe not quite to the level as the Chiefs game, but nothing earth shattering. But don't give the Broncos defense a big pat on the back either. It was mostly hurt offenses throughout the season that made them look MUCH better than they were. With the Pats offense clicking like it was, the Broncos offense (Tebow led, Orton led or Quinn led) would have had to have played a perfect game and gotten a few breaks too to come close to keeping up. Why? The defense had no chance at stopping Brady.

The Broncos have a lot of problems to deal with both offensively and defensively, and there's not enough draft picks to work on everything in one off-season. So, sure, they'll probably bring in a QB or two in free-agency, but next year is going to be Tebow's chance to either show major improvement or decide if he wants to change positions to stay in the NFL. In the meantime, the Broncos are going to address many of the other glaring problems that they have deal with if they really want to challenge the elite teams.

On 49ers vs Saints: What a great game! I feel badly for the Saints fans, but honestly, they shouldn't have been in that game after the turnovers in the first quarter. So much back and forth at the end, it was really fun to watch.

On the Patriots: I sort of wish they had sort of held that performance in their back pocket a little. I don't think they needed it this week, and if they had not played as well, it could have made for a better game. It is likely that they will have to play that well next week if they are hosting Baltimore, and the Texans could still pose a threat, but the Superbowl is where they will need to play back up to that standard.

On Tebow: Thank god it is probably going to quiet down on that front. I feel like Tebow is getting the Peyton Manning treatment, but without the ability to back it up. By that I mean he seems like a really great kid: full of heart, passion for the game and the ability to lead his team. He has his strong faith on display, but he didn't make it into this big overdrawn circus that it has become. Unfortunatly, we (non-Denver/Tebow fans) have to hear every broadcaster, every sports writer going on and on about him, all the time. He is fun to watch, when the game isn't a crazy blowout. What John Fox has in Denver now is basically an unorthodox team that was able to catch some teams by surprise; and unless he can get better "normal" QB play out of Tebow, they will not be back in the playoffs next year. That said, Tebow is really young, and didn't have much of an offseason to improve, so maybe he will get more accurate and make fewer negative plays.

Rat Boy wrote:

Ugh, why do I get the feeling the Niners' colossal achievement is going to get drowned in Tebow talk come Monday (barring anything that happens on Sunday, naturally)?

Yeah for once it'd be nice to hear about how awesome Vernon Davis is for a few days.

Or if they keep winning, can his catch be "The Catch, part 2"

sheared wrote:

Stuff

So your argument for Tebow contains no actual defense of Tebow himself, but instead the damning with faint praise of "Tebow can beat other offenses that are also hamstrung by players as equally mediocre to bad as Tebow himself"?

Ok. You can have that one. By all means.

Howsabout them Niners?

I'm not going to share in the Tebow hate, but will point out that this outcome is really not at all surprising. When you look at his QB rating, he finished out the year right ahead of Rex Grossman (#27) and right behind Colt McCoy (#25). You just don't get to win in a shootout with Tom Brady with those kinds of numbers even if the defense is as porous as NE's is.

The surprising thing to me was how committed Denver was to the option even after it became transparently clear that the Patriots had figured it out and were not going to let themselves be beat by it. Bellicheck had all the lanes blocked off, gave the corners safety help, and provided just enough QB pressure to make Tebow commit to something. And at point, Brady had more touchdowns than Tebow had first downs AND more points than he had yards.

As much as I'm glad to see the madness over Tebow end, I don't think he or anyone deserves either the hype or the schadenfreude over this sort of beating. More to the point, I also don't think that enough attention is brought to the fact that Bellicheck routinely runs up the score out of spite (e.g.: what the hell was Brady still doing in the game after halftime?) or to send a message.

Thin_J wrote:
sheared wrote:

Stuff

So your argument for Tebow contains no actual defense of Tebow himself, but instead the damning with faint praise of "Tebow can beat other offenses that are also hamstrung by players as equally mediocre to bad as Tebow himself"?

Ok. You can have that one. By all means.

Howsabout them Niners?

No my argument is that folks like you are illogically hateful towards Tebow (not illogically critical towards his football abilities), and that the Broncos have (at least publicly) committed to him one more year, and will be filling all the other holes that the team so desperately needs to fill.

I thought the Broncos loss came down to two obvious things last night:

1) The defense got absolutely no pressure on Brady. When the Broncos were winning, they were getting pressure.

2) Sticking with the option. Wasn't working and they stuck to it. I didn't see any good adjustments in the play calling in the second half.

I think 1 is more important than 2, especially when playing an elite offense like the Patriots.

Sorry about your grandmother, Stele. Congrats on the niners win and I'm glad you got to watch that amazing second half!

I watched the second half with a bunch of buddies over margaritas and mexican food. It was totally awesome. I was torn on who to root for, though. I picked the Saints and because of geographically, I know more Saints fans. However, I prefer rooting for underdogs. The Saints sure did sh*t the bed with all of those turnovers. More than anything, I enjoyed watching such a great game.

I was looking forward more to the Broncos game, with the A&M Von Miller connection and the fun Tebow storyline. Now I'm glad it was D&D night here and I just looked over periodically to see yet another Patriots TD. We had some great conversations about Gronk's dating life.

Stele wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Ugh, why do I get the feeling the Niners' colossal achievement is going to get drowned in Tebow talk come Monday (barring anything that happens on Sunday, naturally)?

Yeah for once it'd be nice to hear about how awesome Vernon Davis is for a few days.

Or if they keep winning, can his catch be "The Catch, part 2" :D

Technically it's The Catch 3.

Dierdorf.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Dierdorf.

Vader NOOO

Same goes for Simms yesterday. This is why I dread watching NFL games on CBS.

Sheared wrote:

So you can blame the rest of the NFL for allowing the leagues worst defense to be the #1 AFC team in the playoffs this year, too. I'm a Broncos fan, and like what Tebow brings to the game, but I just laugh at all the comments like this that make it seem like Tebow wouldn't be in this position at all if it weren't for the Broncos defense saving his butt throughout this season.

Denver averaged about 17 pts a game with Tebow at QB, so yeah, when they won, it was because of Denver's defense, and their decent running game. It certainly wasn't because Tim Tebow is a good quarterback. I cut him *some* slack for being in only his 2nd season, but that doesn't mean the rest of the nation should be inflicted with "Tebow-Mania". He got far too much credit, and the rest of the team got far too little during the win streak.

He's a pretty good runningback who just happens to be lining up under center. He's an awful quarterback.

Paleocon wrote:

More to the point, I also don't think that enough attention is brought to the fact that Bellicheck routinely runs up the score out of spite (e.g.: what the hell was Brady still doing in the game after halftime?) or to send a message.

It was pretty clear during the second quarter that Belicheck was sending a message to anyone who pays the least bit of attention to football.

Remember that Belicheck's QB who three rings and will be elected to the HoF the very second he is eligible.

So where was the fan/media focus leading up to the game? It was all on the option QB who completes only about half of his passes.

Enix wrote:

So where was the fan/media focus leading up to the game? It was all on the option QB who completes only about half of his passes.

46%, to be precise, including post-season.

sheared wrote:

No my argument is that folks like you are illogically hateful towards Tebow (not illogically critical towards his football abilities), and that the Broncos have (at least publicly) committed to him one more year, and will be filling all the other holes that the team so desperately needs to fill.

I'll say it again. I couldn't care less about Tebow. What I hate is the ridiculous fervor around a guy who is at best mediocre, at the expense of not just the rest of his own team, but the expense of the vast majority of other players that are simply better but get way less attention.

I'm tired of the Tebow wins headlines and the constant talk about the guy on every sports segment on every news show in existence.

He doesn't deserve it.

With that I'll bow out on this one.

The Ravens are crushing the Texans spirit, thanks to Tim Tebow.

Thin_J wrote:

What I hate is the ridiculous fervor around a guy who is at best mediocre, at the expense of not just the rest of his own team, but the expense of the vast majority of other players that are simply better but get way less attention.

Speaking to this part, how about that Demaryius Thomas. He has an awful QB throwing wobbly throws behind him and he is just a beast. It started coming out a bit last week under all the derping about Tebow, that it was Thomas who made that perfect stiff-arm and won the game. Given that a first round WR should be a stud, I just know that next year the analysts will be all amazed that this kid "came out of nowhere" to be one of the better WRs in the league.

Also, speaking of bad QBs. I know the Texans have a good secondary but Flacco does not look good. Since ESPN doesn't talk about him non-stop like some other bad QBs, what is the general feeling among the Baltimore faithful?

Jayhawker wrote:

The Ravens are crushing the Texans spirit, thanks to Tim Tebow.

That was thanks to our own Jacoby Jones.

Houston just had an awesome goal line stand where Ray Rice got stood up at the 1/2 yd line!

Jayhawker wrote:

The Ravens are crushing the Texans spirit, thanks to Tim Tebow.

honestly... I'm 100% unimpressed with the Ravens so far... this game should be 13-3 in favor of the Texans.. possibly even 20-3.