XCOM: Enemy Unknown - Strategy Game - Developed by Firaxis

SodaGremlin wrote:

OMG, sh*t pants... just saw this tread

Same here. Stoked.

The one thing about the old HUD was that it was so busy, it was a barrier to entry to anyone who didn't read the manual. FYI, for you younger gamers, games used to come with these book things that told you how to play.

I would be okay with a more efficient, streamlined HUD.

Nevin73 wrote:

The one thing about the old HUD was that it was so busy, it was a barrier to entry to anyone who didn't read the manual. FYI, for you younger gamers, games used to come with these book things that told you how to play.

I would be okay with a more efficient, streamlined HUD.

Since they're using a 3D engine it should eliminate some of the clunkiness of the original's handling of multi-story buildings. That right there eliminated a few buttons I'd say.

I see good things and bad things. Need more info!

Hypatian wrote:

Yeah—to be honest, that HUD is so minimal it makes me worry a little.

This. A HD version of the old HUD would be fine by me.

Knowing they are pushing this on console worries me a little too, but I'll trust Firaxis until I see a trailer set to a Marilyn Manson song.

Typing from Kexx's account but it still Hobbes2099 over here.
After getting some feed back, here's a refining of the Interceptor Intercepted mission description.

Only Skyrangers can get shot down.
Nearest base will send re-inforcements.
At the beginning of the round, game will inform player how many rounds before re-inforcements arrive.

Player can use turns for one of two things; play normally (move, attack, crouch, etc) or use round to repair % of ship.
Game is focused on managing overwhelming odds; 5-10 team vs 30+ Aliens.

Aliens will spawn from ship at one end of the map, Player at their crash site on the other.
Aliens know where Player crashed.

When re-inforcements arrive, player has two options;
- continue with mission.
- retreat to new Skyranger and run.

EDIT: Account hijacked by stoopid brother!! Oh Noes! Still, I find these ideas cool....

I really hope they'll be able to translate the claustrophobic feel of the first games with the 3D engine. I like the XCOM base screenshot in that regard, but the forest scene on the other hand seems to lack contrast.

Why yes, thankyou, this is relevant to my interests.

Couldn't get into XCOM having not played it back in the day and so therefore finding myself unforgiving of it's ninetiesness. This despite the fact it is, on paper, bang up my rue.

OzymandiasAV:

Actually, base invasions are mainly a matter of layout design, stocking the right equipment and guys, and then mopping up. It's only a tactical challenge when you design your base aesthetically or something. For a base designed to be defensible, a base invasion is very often just free stuff - the more the merrier.

It's why I thought of tower defense. It's how I played that game. Base defense is won when you're putting in buildings and stocking equipment.

On the more difficult settings, you can actually use invasions lured to specially made bases to fund your organization. Weird, but it works.

Irongut wrote:

You all can keep your wacky PvZ-COM ideas to yourselves. I liked defending my bases just the way it was. Same mechanics as terror sites and intercept missions.

Firaxis, more mission types and locations is fine, but make sure that what you give me is a true modern XCOM.

Base defense is markedly different from terror sites and intercepts. For one thing, you control where the aliens enter and how fast (it's in the architecture of your base). You get your full solider complement, and nearly unlimited stocks assuming you stocked up on stuff.

Once you get the flying tank and mind control abilities, alien battleship landings become highly lucrative piracy missions.

Paleocon wrote:

Once you get the flying tank and mind control abilities, alien battleship landings become highly lucrative piracy missions.

For a moment there, I thought we were still in the gas station thread

Certis wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:

The one thing about the old HUD was that it was so busy, it was a barrier to entry to anyone who didn't read the manual. FYI, for you younger gamers, games used to come with these book things that told you how to play.

I would be okay with a more efficient, streamlined HUD.

Since they're using a 3D engine it should eliminate some of the clunkiness of the original's handling of multi-story buildings. That right there eliminated a few buttons I'd say.

That is a great point about the 3D buildings. I didn't even think of that. The other thing to keep in mind is that there are many ways that the UI could be tweaked to make it function extremely well. There could be toggle buttons that give you a quick snap shot of what you need, activity specific icons for each class your going to have, and who knows what else. I like the streamlined version I'm seeing, with the hope that I will be able add in, or pull up the info I need at a button press.

I don't think repelling a base invasion should be a tower defense minigame, but I also don't see anything wrong with being able to build defensive constructions (automated turrets and such) inside your base.

Man, it's got to suck to be Tkyl and not be able to say "No, no! You don't get it! It's going to work like *this*!"

Tkyl, how familiar is the dev team with the Silent Storm series? Like others have said, some lousy design but a fabulous 3D turn-based engine.

Silent Storm was so awesome. Can you still buy it anywhere?

Hypatian wrote:

Man, it's got to suck to be Tkyl and not be able to say "No, no! You don't get it! It's going to work like *this*!"

It's taking all my willpower not to talk about the game. But it is exciting to finally be able to see people's reaction to what we are doing.

Barab wrote:

Silent Storm was so awesome. Can you still buy it anywhere?

I think just ebay or maybe Amazon. Silent Storm did have a US release. I think the expansion and Gold (combined) versions were only released in Europe.

Steam and gamersgate dont seem to have it.

Tkyl wrote:
Hypatian wrote:

Man, it's got to suck to be Tkyl and not be able to say "No, no! You don't get it! It's going to work like *this*!"

It's taking all my willpower not to talk about the game. But it is exciting to finally be able to see people's reaction to what we are doing.

Also to write down potentially good ideas so you can take credit for them!

LarryC wrote:

Actually, base invasions are mainly a matter of layout design, stocking the right equipment and guys, and then mopping up. It's only a tactical challenge when you design your base aesthetically or something. For a base designed to be defensible, a base invasion is very often just free stuff - the more the merrier.

On the more difficult settings, you can actually use invasions lured to specially made bases to fund your organization. Weird, but it works.

I'd dispute whether base defense missions are always just "mopping up," especially for first time players: even though first-timers will know the layout of the base, they're probably not going to know about the 80-item limit or even consider structuring their base in such a way to create built-in choke points.

As far as the actual tactics go, I suppose that you could say that using the blaster bomb launcher (in conjunction with the foreknowledge of the base layout) can make quick work of things, but I'd assign that as an issue to the lack of balance with the blaster bomb altogether, not with the structure of the base defense missions. You could probably argue the blaster bomb turns every mission into "mopping up" once you get it.

OzymandiasAV wrote:

As far as the actual tactics go, I suppose that you could say that using the blaster bomb launcher (in conjunction with the foreknowledge of the base layout) can make quick work of things, but I'd assign that as an issue to the lack of balance with the blaster bomb altogether, not with the structure of the base defense missions. You could probably argue the blaster bomb turns every mission into "mopping up" once you get it.

Once you get the flight suits and bomb launcher the game is pretty much over, but they make the game so much fun I don't even care. There's nothing quite like a tactical strike flying a blaster bomb in a window, down a hallway, around a few corners, through a door, and up some stairs to some point a scout has tagged. Second best is blowing a hole in the roof of a command ship and dropping directly into the control room to stun and capture the ship commander.

One really great thing about X-Com is how it starts practically as a horror game--exploring farmhouses in the darkness and having your squad systematically killed or mind-controlled by an enemy you might not even see--and escalates to a global strategy game where you're using alien tech better than they use it themselves. In the interim, the game does a great job of crushing player confidence, like how Chrysalids appear just about when you feel you're getting a handle on fighting aliens.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Tkyl, how familiar is the dev team with the Silent Storm series? Like others have said, some lousy design but a fabulous 3D turn-based engine.

I'm under the impression this game is to be released fall of this year. Won't considering a new engine postpone the release date? We don't want them pulling a Duke Nukem, now do we?

Hobbes2099 wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

Tkyl, how familiar is the dev team with the Silent Storm series? Like others have said, some lousy design but a fabulous 3D turn-based engine.

I'm under the impression this game is to be released fall of this year. Won't considering a new engine postpone the release date? We don't want them pulling a Duke Nukem, now do we?

Heh, I wasn't suggesting an engine change.

More news from Game Informer, as relayed via a post on Lum's forum:

-No black blobs in Firaxis's XCOM. The guys in suits are called "Thin Men" and they can use weapons, jump large distances, and puke disgusting goo.
-No action points. The game uses a move-and-shoot (or move-and-move) dynamic. They don't want people piddling around counting individual action points. Some will call this a concession to consolitis; others will call it useful streamlining.
-Soldiers gain perk-like abilities when leveling up; some examples given are, for a sniper, Snap Shot (move-then-shoot, not normally a sniper option) or Squad Sight (shoot any enemy anyone on your squad can see -- not sure of the rationale there....).
-Environments are destructible, as we would wish.
-Soldiers can still panic, but not to the point of wiping the squad. Likewise, you'll never get plasma-bombed right out of the carrier. They want to make the game more fair, and those were specifically mentioned.
-The strategic layer is extremely robust. You still need to choose which countries to send missions to, which offers of aid (in exchange for more protection) you'll accept from which countries, which alien technologies you'll research, etc. The back-and-forth between tactical and strategic play remains at the heart of the game.
-Overwatch, duck-and-cover, etc. are all still very much present, tactically.
-You can research vehicles, which take the place of a squaddie. They don't gain XP and when they are destroyed they are lost for good, but they provide serious cover and firepower. One example given is a mobile heavy weapons platform that serves as a good overwatcher for a tactical advance.
-Sectoids and Mutons are in. Cyberdiscs and Thin Men are also mentioned. Evidently psionics are also in.
-Aliens have their own special perk-like abilities as well.

The descriptions there remind me a bit of the Shadow Watch game mechanics, especially the part about action-point management and level-up perks.

Oh, and here are more details gleaned from a GAF contributor:

•randomly generated missions, terrain. Developer says you'll never play the exact same mission twice outside of a few story missions which feature in-game cinematics
•fog of war is confirmed. area starts off with darkness everywhere, and the average soldier can't see sh*t
•enemy spawns are randomized
•mobile platform called SHIV; customizable for new chasis
•Sectoids and Mutons confirmed
•The base's screenshot is accurate. It is now a side shot instead of top down. You can also upgrade your base, like the satellite, with alien technology
•There was an example in one scenario where Japan had the laser rifle already developed before the invasion because they felt threatened, so that seems random.
•You have 16 countries in the funding council you need to keep happy. Some provide more money, but others, like Africa, provide more raw resources
•The sniper units have a grappling hook ability to get on top of buildings
•Gunners have a suppressing fire
•you can equip your xcom guys with all kinds of different guns. customization looks like a big deal
•Apparently there's some sort of cinematic view when your guys get killed. They didn't cite VATS or anything, so I doubt it's too in depth
•Unexperienced agents can panic, freak out, etc if something bad happens
•Firaxis designer states that the PC version will have an enhanced interface. He cites Dragon Age: Origins on PC and console as a big inspiration

So how close is Fallout Tactics to this type of game? I never played the x-com series but it always looked like it was similar to Fallout Tactics, which is a game I absolutely loved.

Sounds really neat! In the light of this coming out I think Xenonauts will still find a niche because it is much closer to the original in terms of mechanics and gameplay.

I like the sound of everything except for no action points. Something tells me the Xcom fans are still going to be waiting for the "real sequel" after this one. I trust that it'll still be a fine game though.

Barab wrote:

I like the sound of everything except for no action points. Something tells me the Xcom fans are still going to be waiting for the "real sequel" after this one. I trust that it'll still be a fine game though.

I suspect that they could do a straight port of the original's mechanics and some fans would find reason to be disappointed.

I would expect them to make SOME improvements. There were a lot of lingering issues in XCOM and more that cropped up later in TFTD. A direct port with improved grahics and UI would be nice to have, but if they didn't do a little work on the underlying mechanics I might as well play the original.

BlackSabre wrote:

So how close is Fallout Tactics to this type of game? I never played the x-com series but it always looked like it was similar to Fallout Tactics, which is a game I absolutely loved.

Pretty close actually in the tactical sense.

One thing that XCom relied on heavily was line of sight and sight distance. Oddly, your soldiers could accurately shoot farther than they could see. So with a standard rifle they could shoot at and hit a target that they could't see but a teammate could. I always found it very counter-intuitive. It would make sense if you were talking about an indirect fire weapon like a grenade launcher, mortar, or artillery. Automatic rifle, not so much.

One thing I'm curious about with the removal of action points is the treatment of fast versus slow firing weapons. Could be they'll go with a straight rate of fire per turn (ex: automatic rifle can fire 3 shots, sniper rifle only 1). And I wonder if you have the option to pick your move speed which affects shots taken the same turn: run farther for poor accuracy, walk less for better, or stay still for best.