Steam holiday 2011 sales chatter

shoptroll wrote:
gregrampage wrote:

I wish Steam would unify their own achievements, at least.

How so? Maybe I'm not getting this whole "unify" thing.

Unify isn't the right word but really I just mean some form of front end for it. Show me my total achievements, let me compare against individual people, etc. Right now you just see your achievements for each game individually and you can compare those against global statistics. Even something as small as a gamerscore or the trophy level that PSN has would be nice.

gregrampage wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
gregrampage wrote:

I wish Steam would unify their own achievements, at least.

How so? Maybe I'm not getting this whole "unify" thing.

Unify isn't the right word but really I just mean some form of front end for it. Show me my total achievements, let me compare against individual people, etc. Right now you just see your achievements for each game individually and you can compare those against global statistics. Even something as small as a gamerscore or the trophy level that PSN has would be nice.

Agreed. achievements would be a lot more fun & interesting on steam, if they were more like Xbox achievements. (a points system, grand total displayed, etc). As it is, I pay almost no attention to them. Many "achievements" seem pretty arbitrary and silly anyway.

Ah... a gamerscore is what you want then.

Jeff-66 wrote:
gregrampage wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
gregrampage wrote:

I wish Steam would unify their own achievements, at least.

How so? Maybe I'm not getting this whole "unify" thing.

Unify isn't the right word but really I just mean some form of front end for it. Show me my total achievements, let me compare against individual people, etc. Right now you just see your achievements for each game individually and you can compare those against global statistics. Even something as small as a gamerscore or the trophy level that PSN has would be nice.

Agreed. achievements would be a lot more fun & interesting on steam, if they were more like Xbox achievements. (a points system, grand total displayed, etc). As it is, I pay almost no attention to them. Many "achievements" seem pretty arbitrary and silly anyway.

I'm glad the Steam achievements are individual by game just like they are. I don't get the whole fetish with chasing a gamerscore, it's just a big creepy competition to see who can spend more time in the Skinner box.

As it is, Steam games get to pick what achievements they put in and how many of them they want to use so there's some chance that they actually provide fun goals to shoot for. Limit the developers to some kind of Microsoft standard where "your game costs X so you can have Y worth of achievement points" and you end up with even more pointless achievements and/or "good" ones left on the cutting room floor.

Stele wrote:

Ah... a gamerscore is what you want then.

I guess. Actually, I'm pretty indifferent to the whole thing. As I said earlier, I see many of them as being arbitrary, or even silly. But a lot of people see them as a mini-game, and I admit I enjoyed them a bit more when I would see "50G" pop up on the screen, and my score go up some. *shrug*. I don't pay much attention to them now. One of my friends actually tells me when I get them in steam games, as I usually don't even notice

Elycion, you make a good point, but I also don't necessarily see it as 'weird' or a 'fetish'. To each his own, and if people enjoy that chase or have fun with it, more power to them.

This leads to more questions:
Are achievements that big that in terms of having a competitive advantage to steam for some players, all a company needs to do is add achievements and numbers to pop-up, and tally them?
Do GFWL titles sell more than they otherwise would because of that score?
Why hasn't GFWL marketplace taken off?

Scratched wrote:

This leads to more questions:
Are achievements that big that in terms of having a competitive advantage to steam for some players, all a company needs to do is add achievements and numbers to pop-up, and tally them?
Do GFWL titles sell more than they otherwise would because of that score?
Why hasn't GFWL marketplace taken off?

I would say GFWL has never reached the critical mass it needs in terms of games and users to really take off. Lets be honest, Steam got started because it was required for 2 of the most influential games in the last decade (CS and HL2)

And for people wanting a unified achievement platform for PC you are CRAZY! The whole business case for achievements is to lock you into their system, I bet MS has a ton of users based strictly on the fact that they don't want to leave the platform because they can't take their gamerscore with them.

Kamakazi010654 wrote:

I bet MS has a ton of users based strictly on the fact that they don't want to leave the platform because they can't take their gamerscore with them.

Scroll through the sales threads on this board and you'll see multiple people posting things like "Doesn't award achievements on GFWL so I'll pass."

I'm not someone who goes hunting for achievements, as I think they can pull you out of "deep" experiences. But in a chaotic or frenetic game, I do like seeing them pop up when I do something unusually good or efficient or ridiculous. And having a score attached to them makes it feel like you've done something really cool, whether it be by numbers or by colour of trophy. "10G: You pressed a button when we told you to" can die in a fire, whereas something like "80G: Get 5 support ribbons in one round" is worth it and genuinely feels like a pat on the back from the devs for playing the game well for your team.

Jeff-66 wrote:
gregrampage wrote:
shoptroll wrote:
gregrampage wrote:

I wish Steam would unify their own achievements, at least.

How so? Maybe I'm not getting this whole "unify" thing.

Unify isn't the right word but really I just mean some form of front end for it. Show me my total achievements, let me compare against individual people, etc. Right now you just see your achievements for each game individually and you can compare those against global statistics. Even something as small as a gamerscore or the trophy level that PSN has would be nice.

Agreed. achievements would be a lot more fun & interesting on steam, if they were more like Xbox achievements. (a points system, grand total displayed, etc). As it is, I pay almost no attention to them. Many "achievements" seem pretty arbitrary and silly anyway.

Maybe a system wherein you could gather achievement points and trade them in for coupons? :p

I'm thinking I could make a site like www.wastedonsteam.com that reads all of your public achievement info and gives you an aggregate score. Couldn't really do weighting of the achievements but it would still be something. If friends lists are also public, which I think they are, I could also add comparisons to other friends with public profiles.

conejote wrote:

Maybe a system wherein you could gather achievement points and trade them in for coupons? :p

This is something I've kicked around in my head for a while. What would have happened if one of the companies (Steam, Sony, Microsoft) had really made achievements worth something? For example, what if, when Steam has launched they had put a system in place where achievements were "spendable". For example: instead of unlocking a class's TF2 update weapons by earning certain achievements you could just spend a certain number of achievements? Make them a kind of virtual currency across games or through their service?

Sony has already has standards in place for games on the PS3 where games have to have achievements and are ranked into levels. What if for the PS4 they made those achievements worth more? What if you could spend them for DLCs to games (crappy content-that-should-have-been-free-in-the-game-to-start-with debates aside)? Or even on classic games (the likely have already made their profit)? Would I have likely bought more games on the PS rather than on the PC version if this was the case?

Anyhow... random mumblings from a guy who has too much time to think at work.

shoptroll wrote:

As this thread showed, Amazon has been running promotions that rival Steam's deep discounts. So I think on that front everything is good. However, Steam has a significant advantage by being one of the first solutions to hit the market (and it was definitely crappy back in 2005 and it got a lot better starting around 2007). Everyone else is playing catch-up. Similar to how iTunes is still a juggernaut in the music download space since they were one of the first solutions. First to market = unchallenged = large established user base who is comfortable and not looking for an alternative. Or something like that. We're sheep consumers.

Another thing to consider is that Amazon's discounts are only good in the US. Steam still has a HUGE advantage internationally by being the leader on the DD front where geography isn't an obstacle. (though some specific regions still suffer). Amazon still has a LONG way to go to compete there - though I am desperately begging them to.

Stele wrote:

Ah... a gamerscore is what you want then.

Yes. As mentioned elsewhere, something like trueachievements.com, to show me quantitatively how much better I am than Q-Stone.

Sorry, Bonus, I can't hear you from my 2.0 TA ratio perch. u_u

Scratched wrote:

Why hasn't GFWL marketplace taken off?

Ooh ooh I can answer that one!

Because everything related to GFWL is terrible.

Michael wrote:
Scratched wrote:

Why hasn't GFWL marketplace taken off?

Ooh ooh I can answer that one!

Because everything related to GFWL is terrible.

Unfortunately, this isn't true. Its financial backing is far from terrible. Which is why it's still alive.

I don't get the whole fetish with chasing a gamerscore, it's just a big creepy competition to see who can spend more time in the Skinner box.

I am agreeing with this so hard. Gamerscore is a measure of how much money and time you've spent on games. It's not really a positive thing. When that number goes up, other things in your life are probably going down.

Malor wrote:
I don't get the whole fetish with chasing a gamerscore, it's just a big creepy competition to see who can spend more time in the Skinner box.

I am agreeing with this so hard. Gamerscore is a measure of how much money and time you've spent on games. It's not really a positive thing. When that number goes up, other things in your life are probably going down.

That's so ridiculous. Not getting it is one thing but that's a pretty harsh judgement. Who is anyone to say what someone else should do with their gaming time/money? Some people like to 100% games, some don't. Some like to 100% achievements, some don't. Who cares?

It's the old "I like achievements" vs "I think achievements are stupid" discussion.

What it comes down to for me is that it's extrinsic rather than intrinsic reward for doing something in a game. If it's not rewarding within the game itself, why is the thing you need to reward in there in the first place? That, and the whole thing keeping you loyal to one system or another based on a number.

Mantid wrote:

This is something I've kicked around in my head for a while. What would have happened if one of the companies (Steam, Sony, Microsoft) had really made achievements worth something? For example, what if, when Steam has launched they had put a system in place where achievements were "spendable". For example: instead of unlocking a class's TF2 update weapons by earning certain achievements you could just spend a certain number of achievements? Make them a kind of virtual currency across games or through their service?

Quit drinking my kool-aid

I would be all over this though. I think achievements are neat (I was really against them back when the 360 came out) but they're not the be-all-end-all of gaming for me. That said, I would love to see some sort of reward attached to them instead of them being yet another Skinner box.

Wait, wouldn't that just make them more of a Skinner box? What am I saying here?!

Mantid wrote:

This is something I've kicked around in my head for a while. What would have happened if one of the companies (Steam, Sony, Microsoft) had really made achievements worth something? For example, what if, when Steam has launched they had put a system in place where achievements were "spendable". For example: instead of unlocking a class's TF2 update weapons by earning certain achievements you could just spend a certain number of achievements? Make them a kind of virtual currency across games or through their service?

Because I didn't see it the first time around due to my filthy skimming - See what happens hand has happened on steam sale where there's even the hint of something tangible that can be earned through achievements. That said, the cottage industries that spring up surrounding anything where there's a system to be worked out never cease to amaze me, for example minecraft will get people doing some in-depth thinking over efficiently making your own world.

gregrampage wrote:
Malor wrote:
I don't get the whole fetish with chasing a gamerscore, it's just a big creepy competition to see who can spend more time in the Skinner box.

I am agreeing with this so hard. Gamerscore is a measure of how much money and time you've spent on games. It's not really a positive thing. When that number goes up, other things in your life are probably going down.

That's so ridiculous. Not getting it is one thing but that's a pretty harsh judgement. Who is anyone to say what someone else should do with their gaming time/money? Some people like to 100% games, some don't. Some like to 100% achievements, some don't. Who cares?

I am one of the biggest gamerscore whores on GWJ and I play about an hour a day on the workweek, and 3-4 on the weekends. I have two small children whom I adore and only play after they go to bed. I know you tend to deal in absolutes, but I will thank you not to judge me for my hobby.

*agreeing with GR I am.*

Malor wrote:
I don't get the whole fetish with chasing a gamerscore, it's just a big creepy competition to see who can spend more time in the Skinner box.

I am agreeing with this so hard. Gamerscore is a measure of how much money and time you've spent on games. It's not really a positive thing. When that number goes up, other things in your life are probably going down.

People use that as a criticism of gaming in general. Congrats.

I still like achievements and am still compelled to go after the ones that don't require hours of effort. And I still wish there was a button I could push that would opt me out of the whole process since try as I might, I can't shut the compulsion out.

Achievements are merely an invention of the police state.

The major electronic entertainment corporations were contracted covertly to implement new tools to occupy and track the citizens. Co-development was a black book project, while deployment was outsourced to individual media companies. Disparities of technical impementation are just a ruse to create the perception of fractured systems and illusory competition.

Gamerscore is feeding information back to central government data banks, allowing intensive information warehousing and data mining of the citizenry. It tells the government what you are doing and how long you are doing it. It trains you to achieve meaningful-seeming and meaningless actions and to appreciate simple rewards. It is also used in combination with other data repositories and techniques to identify candidates for potential covert operatives.

That pubby you are playing with? The one that is badmouthing you and pushing your buttons. Well, chances are, it is actually an agent of the policestate, gathering psych intel on you. That other one, the one who is working with you to achieve or 'boost' gamerscore. Yeah, that's right, they are testing your team abilities to work toward a common goal.

I will post again once I can get off the grid. If you dont hear from me, well you've been warned.