NBA Season 2011-2012

Of course the better alternative in Stern's mind is to take one of the league's few sportsmen and screw him over until he becomes jaded like the rest.

I am a Laker fan and I do not see this trade as ZOMG instant three-peat. I think both sides are overstated. (the raw deal the Hornets are getting and the supposed atomic boon to the Lakers) The Lakers have been looking for a star point guard for many years. But don't you think that there is something else at play with them being able to get one with all the resources and landmark trades they've made. Need I remind you of the year they got Gary Payton?

I will concede the point about the Laker's saving 40 million dollars. But then, ok, so fix it and move on with the trade.

I have to say that paying mediocre players 25$ million over 5-6 is what is killing the NBA. I just looked at the trade info in the LA Times and I kept saying to myself, "Who the heck is that?" It seems it is all about the payday and to hell with building a winning team. Trade for a new flashy guy that will put people in the seats for half a season and give him $6-8 million a year.

fangblackbone wrote:

Of course the better alternative in Stern's mind is to take one of the league's few sportsmen and screw him over until he becomes jaded like the rest.

I am a Laker fan and I do not see this trade as ZOMG instant three-peat. I think both sides are overstated. (the raw deal the Hornets are getting and the supposed atomic boon to the Lakers) The Lakers have been looking for a star point guard for many years. But don't you think that there is something else at play with them being able to get one with all the resources and landmark trades they've made. Need I remind you of the year they got Gary Payton?

I will concede the point about the Laker's saving 40 million dollars. But then, ok, so fix it and move on with the trade.

I have to say that paying mediocre players 25$ million over 5-6 is what is killing the NBA. I just looked at the trade info in the LA Times and I kept saying to myself, "Who the heck is that?" It seems it is all about the payday and to hell with building a winning team. Trade for a new flashy guy that will put people in the seats for half a season and give him $6-8 million a year.

That sounds very jaded, ironically. I think people are always on the lookout for the next scandal, and this is a case of that. Stern is the caretaker of the Hornets as he represents all the owners, who own the Hornets. He claims he does not see the trade as originally made as "good enough" for the team. This, from Chris Broussard on twitter (he's ESPN's main NBA reporter):

Don't yet have details of changes to proposed trade, but league wanted NO to get more draft picks & youth & maybe for LA to take back more $

To reiterate:

Blind_Evil wrote:

If I'm Dell Demps, my goal is to secure the best picks in this year's draft possible (note that one of the offered picks this year is Minny's, not the Clips'). He wants a young talent like Eric Gordon or Steph Curry to build around. There are 8-10 dudes going into the draft that fit that bill.

I'm betting a modified version of this deal gets done by Monday, btw.

The NBA knows that the trade as originally put forth does nothing for the franchise going forward. You can't have as much young talent as do the Rockets (Patrick Patterson, Donatas Motiejunas, Marcus Morris, Terrence Williams, Jonny Flynn off the top of my head) and get away with only getting rid of aging mid-level starters.

I agree with you one one thing though; this deal isn't amazing from the Lakers' standpoint. Unless this clears up a bunch of cap space to sign a starting 4 (West?), they're left awfully thin up front.

Chris Broussard on twitter:

-Hornets asking for E Gordon, Kaman, Bledsoe, Aminu and 2 1st round picks, sources say
-LAC willing to add Gordon 2 deal if Paul commits 2 "opt-in" to the final year of his deal, which would assure LAC of having him next 2 yrs

Now that is the kind of package I'd expect, and frankly it blows the Laker+Rockets deal out of the water. Actually leaves the Clips a little thin but that's what a top-5 talent costs.

If I were the Clippers I'd still press to keep either Bledsoe or one of the picks. Gordon is a pretty big chip.

The second tweet is a little weird. Wasn't this whole trade debacle predicated on a sign-and-trade so Paul could get the true max deal? I would think the Clippers would want that, unless they know/suspect something about his knees.

Edit: Marc Stein explains, I didn't realize this was the same crap Deron Williams was talking about earlier this winter:

The Clippers know that Paul is unlikely to sign an extension with any team that trades for him because the rules in place in the NBA's new labor agreement make it more advantageous for top stars to play the season out and then sign a longer deal in free agency, even if they're staying with the same team.

2 first rounders, Bledsoe AND Gordon? That's a terrible trade. With balky knees? The Clips should laugh at Stern for proposing such a lopsided trade.

It's definitely a little lopsided, but how much so depends entirely on how good you think Bledsoe and Aminu will be. Part by part breakdown:

I know Bledsoe played at 2 in college, but he doesn't really have the size for that spot in the NBA. Clearly if the trade goes through, they'll be set at point (with Mo Williams backing up, barring a trade). No real use for Bledsoe if they get Paul. Now that I think about it, if Gordon's gone they'd probably play Mo and Paul at the same time often enough.

Having just signed Caron Butler, you figure Aminu will just be a backup for the next three years.

Word is they are not interested in keeping Kaman around, supported by reports they are matching whatever offers that DeAndre Jordan gets. He's Blake's best friend, and they figure that keeping him will help in keeping Blake.

Gordon is the thing. On one hand, he's young and a talented scorer. On the other hand, he was there all year last year and the Clips didn't break 35 wins. You figure Paul makes them a playoff team right away, so how valuable is that?

I think it looks a bit more lopsided on paper than in reality. As I said, were I them I'd push to keep either one of the draft picks and hope it turns into Jeremy Lamb or Austin Rivers.

The real shame in all this is they were so desperate to get rid of Baron Davis and his contract, when they could have held onto it til the amnesty clause was instated. That trade cost them the #1 pick in last year's draft. I think Kyrie Irving would have been a hell of a chip in this trade process.

I'd rather have the Clips end of that trade. Gordon's already a top 10 shooting guard, at a very cheap price.

Bringing in Paul likely makes them a 5-6 seed, keeping the package of players keeps them a fringe playoff team at best (depending on who they'd draft and how that player turned out, of course). Blake Griffin is more likely to stick around if they get Paul, as it translates to wins, prestige, and convinces him they're serious about winning. Still, I hear that NO is asking for even more.

The T-wolves are apparently dead set on trying the limits of my interest in them: they've signed J.J. Barea to a four year deal for $19m. All offseason I've read that "some team is going to make the mistake of overpaying Barea." And here we are. 10 million tied up between him and Darko. Great.

This has got to be the only backcourt in the league since 1980 that featured 3 of 4 non-black guys, and Wes Johnson is a more natural 3 than 4.

That's a fair deal. Paul's knees are so balky that you don't want to send two firsts and Gordon as well. So that's a good trade. I'm still frustrated at the way the NBA has handled this. The team should be sold or contracted ASAP.

Blind_Evil wrote:

The T-wolves are apparently dead set on trying the limits of my interest in them: they've signed J.J. Barea to a four year deal for $19m. All offseason I've read that "some team is going to make the mistake of overpaying Barea." And here we are. 10 million tied up between him and Darko. Great.

Yeah. Ick. Not a fan of that signing.

So, that CP to Clippers deal apparently is done. Clippers sending Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Minnesota's first rounder. Clippers are getting two second round picks in addition to Chris Paul.

Suppose the Clips are going to run

1. Paul/Bledsoe/Billups
2. Billups/Bledsoe/Foye
3. Butler/Gomes
4. Griffin/?
5. Jordan/?

The Hornets came away...well, I don't know. For sure devoid of a PG. They'll be starting Jarrett Jack I guess, and maybe regretting the trade that sent Darren Collison to the Pacers. Their point spot won't likely be filled this year, either. For as deep as the upcoming draft goes, there aren't a lot of PG prospects. Maybe Kendall Marshall from UNC with their own pick?

God, now that I think about it...who the eff is on their team?

1. Jack
2. Gordon
3. Ariza
4. ?
5. Okafor and Kaman.

That's honestly the only guys I can name. Maybe this wasn't a good trade for them after all...

Blind_Evil wrote:

trade

The fact that teams get so much for guys that are walking at the end of a season in basketball is mind blowing to me. The Melo trade last year really left me scratching my head.

Compare this to other sports and teams usually get next to nothing for guys who are 100% committed to walking. European soccer leagues are a prime example. You don't even let your prized assets get to a 1 year left situation because if they decide they are walking the only offers your going to get usually are lowballs as they should be.

What are the Cardinals getting for Pujols? some compensatory draft picks at best?

I think the Hornets made out considering their complete lack of leverage in every way.

Paul ageed to stay in his current deal which will keep him til the end of next season, so it's not just for one year.

NBA rule of thumb is to always trade four quarters for a dollar.

Eric Gordon and that unprotected 1st round pick aren't quarters.

carrotpanic wrote:

Eric Gordon and that unprotected 1st round pick aren't quarters.

Indeed. And, once again, Paul's balky knees. I hope this works out for the Clippers, but I feel like the Hornets got the better end of that deal. Gordon is going to be an All-Star long after Paul has worn down.

That said, it was a very un-Clipper-like move. Building for the present instead of trading away assets for future cheap players.

Eric Gordon seems really good, but if he was so amazing the Clippers would have sniffed the playoffs last season instead of finishing 13th of 15. With two of the top 10 players in the league (according to the NBARank project, which I put a lot of stock in), they're probably a lock for 50-55 40 wins and a decent playoff seed.

Assuming Paul's knees aren't that bad. And you know, they aren't. I know this because he would have been traded to Portland otherwise.

This trade really works for both sides IMO. Who got the better end can't really be determined for two years.

As a Laker fan I am reeling. And I'm sure all of the non-Laker fan are giddy.

No ill will towards the Clippers or their fans (can't say the same about Donald Sterling though). That will be a very fun team to watch. I still think they should have held onto Gordon, even if it meant waiting for the season to start. What leverage did the Hornets have?

I feel worse and worse about Odom being sent away. It still seems crazy, but everything seems upside down in NBA-land this week. Odom was the best-liked player in the locker room and handled so many different on-court responsibilities without complaint. On top of that he was underpaid. The Lakers have a big hole to fill and a $9.8 million trade exception doesn't have the agility of a guard with the body of a forward.

I trust Mitch Kupchak to get more deals done, but I do have some concerns about Jim Buss and power struggles behind the scenes. Don't carve out any Laker tombstones yet - we know the Lakers always find a way back.

But for now, today is a day for the Clippers to feel ecstatic.

Watching the Timberwolves' preseason debut. Rubio has looked very promising so far. Sank a really pretty floater, kicked out from the lane and found wide-open shooters a couple times. Still had some rookie moments, of course. Bricked a pretty easy jumper from the free throw line. Derrick Williams has only been in for a minute, but drained a three for his first professional points.

Beasley and Love particularly are looking solid on offense. Wes Johnson doesn't seem to have connected the dots yet. Barea is actually looking like a good acquisition, that energy from the playoffs that opened holes in defenses for himself and others seems to have carried over.

Scott Skiles looks a hell of a lot like Red Foreman from That 70s Show.

Rubio looks decent. There have been a couple of times where it's looked like he's trying to be too cute but I think that just might be the other players not being used to playing with him so he kind of catches them off guard. Beasley's having a decent night point-wise but he just misses way too many shots. I think I would have preferred if they trade him to maybe get an actual shooting guard and clear the way a little for Williams.

I'm flicking back and forth between this, the hockey game and the really boring football game so I think I missed all of Williams' minutes.

edit: The Rubio to Williams alley-oop was real nice. I could do with seeing that quite a bit more this year.

If anything, I want them to do surprisingly well just to screw over the Hornets by not giving them a really high pick.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

Beasley's having a decent night point-wise but he just misses way too many shots. I think I would have preferred if they trade him to maybe get an actual shooting guard and clear the way a little for Williams.

He shot 50%, good enough for me.

What I've heard from people watching is that they suspect Williams is more a 4 defensively than a 3, and that he's had trouble guarding Beasley in practice/scrimmages. Link to that article.

Beasley can drive quicker than a guy that tall should be able to, shoot well, and has a knack for drawing fouls. Offensively he's a bit too talented to give up on just yet. I believe this is the last year of his contract, so if anyone gives him big money the Wolves might let him go. If so, trading now would be the best idea.

The Wolves went on a 12-0 run at the end of the game to win by 1. That was interesting. If only the whole season could be played against the Bucks, maybe that would have a decent year.

Went to see Mission Impossible 4, grudgingly missed the game.

Was wondering who they'd run at point besides Ridnour, with Rubio and Barea out.

Blind_Evil wrote:

Went to see Mission Impossible 4, grudgingly missed the game.

Was wondering who they'd run at point besides Ridnour, with Rubio and Barea out.

Malcolm Lee. I wasn't paying much attention so I can't really comment on if he played well or not.

This article is interesting. Spoelstra takes some cues from Chip
Kelly and the Oregon Ducks.

http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/7378111/nba-oregon-ducks-football-muse-erik-spoelstra-miami-heat

So far they look really good. They're running off of makes. They could be fun to watch.

I saw that headline earlier but didn't read it because I assumed it was in reference to the Mighty Ducks.

Edit: Timberwolves had the game vs. OKC within their grasp tonight, with less than a minute to play. OKC! I think Adelman deserves a ton of credit for making this team seemingly competitive in such a short amount of time, talent infusion or not.

Also, I think I'll be eating crow about the Barea signing. Good things seem to happen when a midget penetrates the lane at will.

Boy, it's tough to beat a team that's given the game by the officials.

Bobcats agree!

The T-wolves right now remind me of the Carolina Panthers. They've lost all their games, but narrowly, and some to top-flight teams. After they take their lumps and figure out how to close games I'm hoping they run off a ten game win streak. Maybe starting January 4th (Grizzlies, Wizards, Raptors, Cavs, Bulls, Hornets, Hawks, Kings, Jazz, Rockets - 8 of those are wins, I hope).

So to the people saying Rubio is basketball's Tebow - Naw. He's Newton.

What happened against the Heat? Didn't see the game.