WoW Hunters

fangblackbone wrote:

Yes I have at level 5 and 16 and it doesn't work. I think Hunters used to get it at 10 or 20?

20

Zero, SS is *always* worth it for MM hunters due to the mechanics of Chimera Shot. There's a very noticeable difference in the damage, around 10% or so for my hunter whose gear is less than good; I can't imagine that scaling so poorly it'd drop off at higher levels.

I think they may have changed warriors so that only Fury warriors can dual wield. My daughter's warrior (level 21 I think) couldn't dual wield before I assigned her talents. At the time, I figured I just remembered wrong when warriors got dual wield, but given that there's no longer a trainable ability for it and the wording of the Fury tree's Dual Wield Specialization ability you get for selecting the spec, it sounds like other warriors can no longer dual wield. Interesting...

Zero, SS is *always* worth it for MM hunters due to the mechanics of Chimera Shot.

Actually, CS doesn't work that way anymore. It still refreshes your serpent sting and now heals you, but it no longer gains bonus damage from the presence of a serpent sting on the target.

zeroKFE wrote:
Zero, SS is *always* worth it for MM hunters due to the mechanics of Chimera Shot.

Actually, CS doesn't work that way anymore. It still refreshes your serpent sting and now heals you, but it no longer gains bonus damage from the presence of a serpent sting on the target.

No kidding. When'd that change go in? I ask because when I tested my hunter out on the early PTR it did that, but I didn't spend a whole lot of time with him.

Except they've had ISS and MM procs from the get go, on top of which they took out part of the complexity with ISS by allowing it to overwrite(which I believe it currently does in the beta).

Ah well, such is life. Kinda makes me sad that they're simplifying something that really didn't need it, though.

It went through a lot of changes in the beta. Originally they replaced stings with multiple venoms, and CS interacted with the venoms in interesting ways similar to how it used to interact with stings. Then they removed all but widow venom (my guess is because it felt like unnecessary overlap with the debuffs our pets are now able to bring), and added in the self heal, which had been one of the special effects associated with hitting CS on a venomed target.

The whole concept of CS interacting with stings (and then venoms) was about giving MM hunters a lot of extra utility but at the cost of having to make intelligent reactive changes to how they were interacting with their target. My guess is that when other design changes made it so there wasn't going to be a sting (or venom) choice anymore, they decided to give MM hunters other complexities to manage -- namely, the Improved Steady Shot buff and the Master Marksman proc.

Not sure if this is best place but important cata heroic dungeon hunter tips.

Vortex pinnacle - dragon fight with a thousand tornados - need to use aspect of the fox because you can't stand still thanks to the thousand tornados. You have to maneuver yourself so you see the clear green foot status. If you see that you get a buff if you don't you get a debuff. This can be a frustrating status. Because the dragon is so big you may not be able to get in a ranged position. So until he changes the wind direction you may just be dodging tornados.

Last boss - almost the same as normal. Big difference is he casts a "static cling spell" that roots you and has a 18 sec timer. This becomes an issue if he starts setting up the grounding triangle. DISENGAGE will remove this status from you so you can run to the grounding triangle. It also has a quick timer so it can be used multiple times throughout the fight.

For cata content how do you guys feel about Mastery. I'm pretty sure it is the least desirable attribute. I've been reforging all my gear and removing forgery and switching it to crit, haste or hit, depending on the other stats it has. Do you do the same?

Also, when it comes to gems, since agility is SO important, I usually just slot a +40 agility red gem no matter what the slot really is. How do you guys feel about this? Is having +40 agility better then +15agi/+10 crit for putting the correct gem in?

At this point, I usually top the damage chart in every Heroic I'm in and can shoot 3 Cobra Shots in between Explosive shots.

karmajay wrote:

For cata content how do you guys feel about Mastery. I'm pretty sure it is the least desirable attribute. I've been reforging all my gear and removing forgery and switching it to crit, haste or hit, depending on the other stats it has. Do you do the same?

From research at various locations, the output of spreadsheets, and what my own experience tells me, mastery is definitely worse than crit, and every thing but agility is worse than hit until you are hit capped (at which point anything is better than hit ). As such, I reforge mastery to hit when needed, and then to crit everywhere else possible.

Beyond that, it gets very tricky because the value of haste is so extremely variable. For the time being, I've simply taken the lazy route to dealing with this fact, and I am simply doing nothing in cases where there is a chance to go mastery to haste, or haste to crit. Since we are probably a week or two away from a large balancing patch, the extensive amount of spreadsheet modeling and target dummy testing needed to know for sure doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

karmajay wrote:

Also, when it comes to gems, since agility is SO important, I usually just slot a +40 agility red gem no matter what the slot really is. How do you guys feel about this? Is having +40 agility better then +15agi/+10 crit for putting the correct gem in?

For similar reasons to what I was just saying, I haven't gotten too crazy about working out the exact break even points here. The rule of thumb I'm following though is that it's worth matching a yellow socking (with 20 agi, 20 crit) for at least 10 agi or at least 20 crit. Even this might be overvaluing the socket bonuses, but I've decided to err a bit on the conservative side at least until the balancing patch hits and more thorough testing seems called for.

The only time it's ever worth matching a blue socket is to activate a meta gem or if you just need a tiny hair more hit (since you can gem for 20 hit, but generally can only reforge in chunks of 40 or more). Thankfully, once 4.0.6 drops our meta gems will actually not be broken, and none of the truly useful ones will require any blue any more.

So, from my playtime last time. I normally play SV. On the test dummy, not group buffed over 10 minutes or so, I was averaging 11-12k. In Heroic Blackwing, I averaged 11k, which is normal since most of a dungeon is trash and using cc ect (plus there was a druid doing 14k dps). Seems around normal albeit a bit lower.

Got rid of BM spec since I never see exotic stuff anyway (damn you Terrorpine) and you have to be BM to have them out and picked up MM. All glyphed out(went with ss, kill, arcane no chimera glyphs) on the training dummy I was hitting 13-14k. Did not have a chance to go in a dungeon but I'll test it today. I did notice in MM you built focus a lot faster with SS. I think my rotation could be better, it is less consistent then SV. Basically Serpent->chimera->ss until full focus or chimera back up->full focus blast arcane till depleted. At any time if aimed shot procs shoot that.

MM also has that ability to insta reset all cooldowns which means you can use the super haste ability twice in a boss battle. The super haste ability was always awkward in SV because if you procced LnL it was almost wasted. (man in the morning I definitely can't think of all these names!)

Any one else have experience after the patch they want to share?

karmajay wrote:

So, from my playtime last time. I normally play SV. On the test dummy, not group buffed over 10 minutes or so, I was averaging 11-12k. In Heroic Blackwing, I averaged 11k, which is normal since most of a dungeon is trash and using cc ect (plus there was a druid doing 14k dps). Seems around normal albeit a bit lower.

Got rid of BM spec since I never see exotic stuff anyway (damn you Terrorpine) and you have to be BM to have them out and picked up MM. All glyphed out(went with ss, kill, arcane no chimera glyphs) on the training dummy I was hitting 13-14k. Did not have a chance to go in a dungeon but I'll test it today. I did notice in MM you built focus a lot faster with SS. I think my rotation could be better, it is less consistent then SV. Basically Serpent->chimera->ss until full focus or chimera back up->full focus blast arcane till depleted. At any time if aimed shot procs shoot that.

MM also has that ability to insta reset all cooldowns which means you can use the super haste ability twice in a boss battle. The super haste ability was always awkward in SV because if you procced LnL it was almost wasted. (man in the morning I definitely can't think of all these names!)

Any one else have experience after the patch they want to share?

Ran a heroic with MM and avg around 9-12k throughout. Seemed a bit low but MM loses out on AoE kills. On the bosses though i was doing 13-14k. It was fun seeing the aimed shot procs for 60k.

I saw pretty much what I expected last night in the raid, about 1k to 1.5k less DPS than I had previously done on fights as SV. I did do the first attempt on Maloriak as BM to give the raid the 3% damage buff, but I was so sloppy with managing the BM cooldowns that my personal DPS went down maybe 2k or so, while the effect of the buff didn't matter all that much since as usual we were DPSing too fast through his first six phases. As such, I just went back to SV so I'd have better AOE for the adds.

But anyway, I think they achieved their goals. From the sound of it MM has been brought up in line with SV, BM probably too on the right kinds of fights (if you manage the cooldowns right), and SV has been brought down to where you really have to play well to do competitive DPS (most of the night the charts were very close, and after I made a stupid mistake swapping in an upgrade Maxox soundly beat me on the following two fights). SV's day in the sun is definitely over, but now hunters can actually use the spec the prefer or whichever is best suited for a raid comp and fight, as should be the case for any pure DPS class.

Just keep in mind that on training dummies, Careful Aim should skew your dps upward for MM because of the constant increased crit chance.

Yeah, I just was in a FAIL pug in GB, attempted in MM. The rotation is just not as fluid as SV. Me no like! I went back to SV for now.

Arise from page 16!

So, yeah in the past couple days I feel like I have made some good progress, in gearing up this guy. Considering I didnt do shit with him other then a few heroics when cata launched.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...
I have some holes and need to hit the reforge, but with the rate of gear coming at me right now, didn't think it was worth shelling out the money until i get a decent preraid set done.

Trinkets are killing me right now. I am grabbing either the Valor back or neck tonight. Any suggestion on one over the other?

Also am I off in the rationale that the following 2 items are a wash?
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...

I was leaning towards the haste from the bow, but haven't rerun the point values from crit and the mastery gain.

Trinkets are killing me right now.

Murazond in End of Time has The Arrow of Time. Chain run that instance until you get it.

For 1600 or so justice points you can get Fluid Death, which is probably the next best trinket to acquire outside of raids. Yeah, there's some crap in the Firelands dailies, but Fluid Death compares well with them despite ilevel differences, and is much less annoying to acquire. It'll do you just fine until you get a drop from 4.3 raids.

I am grabbing either the Valor back or neck tonight. Any suggestion on one over the other?

More or less a wash. They should be your first two purchases since they are the two slots that don't drop in 4.3 raids, and since you have 346s in both slots it will be roughly the same upgrade. Flip a coin, unless there is an easy drop for one of those slots in the 4.3 5 mans.

Also am I off in the rationale that the following 2 items are a wash?
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...

Depending on your spec, gear level, and who you believe haste and crit vie for the most desirable secondary stat for hunters (after getting hit capped, of course). Mastery, however, is a distant third in all cases. So yeah, the difference between those two items is going to be essentially negligible in the absence of a racial bonus, so yeah, a total wash. Pick whichever looks cooler.

Thanks for the quick response,
I suppose I should figure out where those fire-lands dailies are at and do them instead of working on specs and rotations during random queue times.

Also logging on the for the first time my gear was so bad I grabbed a quick BM spec to get rolling as that priority system is the most forgiving in regards to gear as well as knocking the rust out of my fingers. So now time to learn the MM spec, as that is best potential from what I am reading correct?

Tell me that priority system is not as daunting as the EJ thread makes it look.

I suppose I should figure out where those fire-lands dailies are at and do them instead of working on specs and rotations during random queue times.

Meh. I guess there is some fun flavor items to be acquired and some story and whatnot, but the only equipment reward that would be of use is an uninspiring trinket that will take weeks to earn. You'd be better off spending the time leveling a profession or something.

Also logging on the for the first time my gear was so bad I grabbed a quick BM spec to get rolling as that priority system is the most forgiving in regards to gear as well as knocking the rust out of my fingers. So now time to learn the MM spec, as that is best potential from what I am reading correct?

MM is probably still tops in a 25 man environment, yeah. That said, BM got significant buffs in 4.3, and SV got some minor ones so the specs are probably closer than they've ever been, especially in 10 man raids where MM is most likely to be missing the bleed debuff which helps their DPS quite a bit.

Personally, I've stuck with SV all through Cataclysm -- ever since the end of Wrath, SV DPS has been more resilient to situations where buffs are missing, and SV has had killer AOE which has been quite useful this expansion. Also, I've hated MM every time I've tried it, especially since they added the improved steady shot mechanic where you need to cast SS back to back frequently to maintain a haste buff -- way too fiddly for my taste. As such, BM has remained my second spec, although I haven't even used that since 4.0.

But of course, it is hard to go wrong following the advice at EJ, so learn MM if you'd like. BM should actually be fine these days though, with the caveat that you can get royally screwed on fights with lots of target switching (since your pet needs to be on the target in order to use Kill Command) and it's a bit more of a challenge to AOE well as BM. Also, for whatever it is worth, our two current raiding hunters (Youko and myself) both run SV, so as MM or BM you would be bringing different buffs to a 10 man. But if you want to go SV, you'll be fine there as well -- your DPS will be competitive, and generally speaking all the major buffs get covered in a 10 man anyway.

Thanks for the info brother. That helps, I will give out a shot I read a few articles from other hunter sites on the train they were dumbed down and with the info at EJ as a supplement I have a better grasp MM.
?
Side note about SV did I read right that black arrow is out on stationary fights, and explosive trap is back in because it will LnL proc more? Or is that just spread sheet talk and not real world plausible

Thanks for the info brother. That helps, I will give out a shot I read a few articles from other hunter sites on the train they were dumbed down and with the info at EJ as a supplement I have a better grasp MM.

Yeah, http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/ is a pretty decent source of info if you haven't seen it yet.

Side note about SV did I read right that black arrow is out on stationary fights, and explosive trap is back in because it will LnL proc more? Or is that just spread sheet talk and not real world plausible

Explosive trap is definitely the way to go with two or more targets. Still not 100% convinced about single target scenarios, although I haven't spent too much time looking into it. That said, I did get smoked by another SV hunter in LFR tonight. His gear was a bit better which explained part of it, but I did notice he was throwing traps in a lot of situations where I was shooting black arrows. Sadly, I forgot to run logs so I don't have a parse to look at it more closely.

WiredAsylum wrote:

I suppose I should figure out where those fire-lands dailies are at and do them instead of working on specs and rotations during random queue times.

To unlock the FL dailies, you have to do about 90-some quests in the Hyjal zone. The FL dailies are a great source of Guardians of Hyjal rep if you want it. And the cash is good. And there's a pet (maybe) at the end. Unless you're an achievement whore, skip 'em at this point.

Like Zero said, if you're in the market for gear, there are better uses of your time -- like doing the Therazane dailies. There are a lot of them and the rep piles up quickly (unlike, say, Wildhammer or Ramkahen, which are long slow slogs if you don't run instances regularly).

@ zero: You're making me miss my hunter.

I got a 378 DPS cloak from the Dragon Soul 5 mans, so I'd take the justice or valor neck over the cloak. Beyond that, there's a handful of rep upgrades out there for you as well. So, while my enhance shaman isn't a hunter, I'm fairly certain you'll find that the gear out there is going to be rather similar:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...

Enix wrote:

And there's a pet (maybe) at the end.

Three actually, you can buy two, a bear and a lasher, but even with the rep discount they're over a 1,000 gold each. The third pet is a rare drop from a bag of goodies you can buy with World Tree marks (each daily gets you 1 to 3 marks)....30 marks = 1 bag = 1 lvl-85(ish) green loot and the small possibility of the pet.