NBA Season 2011-2012

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It looks more and more like the NBA lockout should end shortly. After two straight days of productive meetings, and a very jovial press conference by the NBAPA and the owners, the two are closer than ever to coming to an agreement which could still include an 82 game season.

NEW YORK -- NBA owners and players are talking for a third straight day, with commissioner David Stern vowing they will take "one heck of a shot" at ending the lockout.
"There are no guarantees that we'll get it done, but we're going to give it one heck of a shot tomorrow," Stern said Thursday night. "I think that Billy and the union's negotiators feel the same way. I know that ours do."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7160266/nba-lockout-union-owners-talking-revenue-split-again-trying-end-lockout

It should be humbling to the NBA just how little anyone cares if they play or not. The NFL locks out, and it is like a hostage crisis.

Wait, the NBA is in a lockout?

Hedge wrote:

It should be humbling to the NBA just how little anyone cares if they play or not. The NFL locks out, and it is like a hostage crisis.

You're a little misguided. The NFL dominates ratings, good or bad, therefore the NFL labor situation was covered more fervently by front-facing media. In the NBA-centric corners of the web, we are freaking the f*ck out.

Blind_Evil wrote:
Hedge wrote:

It should be humbling to the NBA just how little anyone cares if they play or not. The NFL locks out, and it is like a hostage crisis.

You're a little misguided. The NFL dominates ratings, good or bad, therefore the NFL labor situation was covered more fervently by front-facing media. In the NBA-centric corners of the web, we are freaking the f*ck out.

I think I was implying how small and little of an impact those corners of the web really are. It is striking how little even ESPN, which broadcasts games, and Fox Sports report on this, either on TV or online.

I'm sure NBA fans are affected. It should be humbling to the NBA just few there really are. Plenty watch, but the numbers of how many could really care less if they watch something else is what strikes me.

If you say so. All I've been hearing about here, and on the ESPN website, is how the NBA was experiencing a surge in popularity and increased ratings over the last two years. Frankly, I don't think *any* sport except football (and only in the US) would get so much attention with a labor stoppage now. It's not the 80s. Most people have way too many entertainment options now to actually become bored by the lack of NBA ball.

The current NBA is a bad product.. people watch in the cities with competitive teams because they are winning.. but they are still watching a bad product. The current labor agreement completely sucks.. guaranteed contracts are the death for any sport (yes including baseball) as it removes all power from management and removes all incentive for players once they have their big contract. Every league should model their labor agreement based on the NFL to a certain extent.

Hmm, I think the current NBA is a good product. To each their own.

Every league should model their labor agreement based on the NFL to a certain extent.

That has guaranteed contracts?!

fangblackbone wrote:
Every league should model their labor agreement based on the NFL to a certain extent.

That has guaranteed contracts?!

The NFL has portions of contracts that are guaranteed, but the majority of the money in contracts (and the entirety of most contracts) are non-guaranteed. Hurt your knee in practice and they rip up your contract and kick you to the curb.

fangblackbone wrote:
Every league should model their labor agreement based on the NFL to a certain extent.

That has guaranteed contracts?!

eh? Nothing in the NFL is guaranteed.. Signing bonuses are essentially guaranteed because you get that money immediately upon signing the contract.. sure it might be spread over several payments..but it counts towards the cap. Limits on the rookie contracts will only help the NFL even more now.

TheGameguru wrote:

The current NBA is a bad product.. people watch in the cities with competitive teams because they are winning.. but they are still watching a bad product. The current labor agreement completely sucks.. guaranteed contracts are the death for any sport (yes including baseball) as it removes all power from management and removes all incentive for players once they have their big contract. Every league should model their labor agreement based on the NFL to a certain extent.

Disagree completely. The NBA is the healthiest it's been since the early 90s. There is a lot of talent in the NBA right now. The product suffers from overproduction (stadium music, huge gyms, etc.), but otherwise it's fine to those of us who follow the NBA primarily. The NFL is relatively unknown in other parts of the world while basketball is second to soccer across the world.

I guess people enjoy the two best teams shooting <50% clanking wide open jump shots and endless isolations with people standing and watching. Either no one watched basketball in the 70's and 80's or tastes have changed dramatically. I will take college ball over the NBA. Judging by most arenas and tv ratings I'm not alone

Edit

I have to lol at the statement that the NBA is the healthiest it is since the 90's. A record amount of teams have been sold in an offseason. They are in a lockout and half the owners have no shot under the current economic system to make any money or ever be competitive.

TheGameguru wrote:

I guess people enjoy the two best teams shooting <50% clanking wide open jump shots and endless isolations with people standing and watching. Either no one watched basketball in the 70's and 80's or tastes have changed dramatically. I will take college ball over the NBA. Judging by most arenas and tv ratings I'm not alone

With regards to "the two best teams clanking wide open jumpers.." did that invalidate the rest of the playoffs? I personally enjoyed watching Dirk play and watching JJ Barrea confound the Heat. But that was a small part of why the 2011 NBA Playoffs were great. Ratings were also up last year. Arenas struggle still because, you know, this is a terrible economy.

TheGameguru wrote:

I have to lol at the statement that the NBA is the healthiest it is since the 90's. A record amount of teams have been sold in an offseason. They are in a lockout and half the owners have no shot under the current economic system to make any money or ever be competitive.

Don't play dumb. You knew what I meant. The game is the healthiest in terms of players. We're in the middle of one of the harshest recessions in history and the NBA already has a whacked out salary structure. So yes, the financial part is not great. But the product on the floor is great right now, though. Why are you even posting in this thread if you seemingly dislike the NBA? I don't get it. That's the definition of trolling, no?

TheGameguru wrote:

I guess people enjoy the two best teams shooting <50% clanking wide open jump shots and endless isolations with people standing and watching.

If you took out the isolation and added a sprinkle of overcoaching and three too many passes per possession...that's what I see in the NCAA game. Particularly the bricks.

Blind_Evil wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

I guess people enjoy the two best teams shooting <50% clanking wide open jump shots and endless isolations with people standing and watching.

If you took out the isolation and added a sprinkle of overcoaching and three too many passes per possession...that's what I see in the NCAA game. Particularly the bricks.

Yeah. That is funny in light of the losing team in the national championship shooting 17% or whatever it was 2, 3 years ago.

That was last year, actually. Butler shot 18% in the loss. 12 made field goals in 40 minutes of basketball.

Connecticut won and they shot 35%. Sorry Guru, just wrong on this one. Watch the Mavs in game 5 of the finals for illustration.

Yep.. I'm wrong.. all my friends as well as my co-workers say the same thing.. we've cancelled our box and re-up with the Flyers, Phillies, and the Eagles.. our sole reason.. the product is bad.. we don't enjoy watching NBA basketball no matter what teams are playing.. even the best.

TheGameguru wrote:

Yep.. I'm wrong.. all my friends as well as my co-workers say the same thing.. we've cancelled our box and re-up with the Flyers, Phillies, and the Eagles.. our sole reason.. the product is bad.. we don't enjoy watching NBA basketball no matter what teams are playing.. even the best.

This is so weird I don't even know what to say.

YOU think the product is bad. YOUR co-workers think the same thing. That doesn't mean it's fact.

May not be fact but a growing segment of the population feels this way. In this area we have access to the Nets, Knicks and Sixers...completely average teams that have gotten into the habit of retreading coaches and players. The only reason to watch these guys is to see the other team.

On the other hand, we're in Big East country. Its just a more exciting product all around. Not from a single game perspective, but as a whole.

Double post.

mindset.threat wrote:

May not be fact but a growing segment of the population feels this way. In this area we have access to the Nets, Knicks and Sixers...completely average teams that have gotten into the habit of retreading coaches and players. The only reason to watch these guys is to see the other team.

On the other hand, we're in Big East country. Its just a more exciting product all around. Not from a single game perspective, but as a whole.

That's like, your opinion, man. /lebowski

TheGameguru wrote:

Yep.. I'm wrong.. all my friends as well as my co-workers say the same thing.. we've cancelled our box and re-up with the Flyers, Phillies, and the Eagles.. our sole reason.. the product is bad.. we don't enjoy watching NBA basketball no matter what teams are playing.. even the best.

If I moved to Philadelphia, I'd be more interested in Temple and Villanova games than the Sixers.

I went to a Celtics game with Maq when we were in Boston for PAX East. I love basketball, and I was pretty excited to see my first NBA game after having seen a slew of the Jayhawks. With Paul Pierce playing for the Celtics, in Boston, it was set-up to be a fun game for me. Partly because the Celtics destroyed the Bucks, but it was not really all that exciting and fun. I had a good time hanging with Maq, but the atmosphere was more like a baseball game.

And I am used to a hell of lot more excitement when it comes to basketball. And quite frankly, I've had a lot more fun at Blues games when they lose. Heck, the Missouri Maverick minor league hockey team is more fun. Until seeing the Celtics, I was hoping KC or St. Louis would get an NBA team. Now I could pretty much care less.

On the plus side, NBA 2K11 was awesome! I'd be interested in 2K12 if the NBA season was going on, if to just to play the NBA Today mode. But if the lockout ends the season it really just saves me time and money to play something else.

mindset.threat wrote:

May not be fact but a growing segment of the population feels this way. In this area we have access to the Nets, Knicks and Sixers...completely average teams that have gotten into the habit of retreading coaches and players. The only reason to watch these guys is to see the other team.

On the other hand, we're in Big East country. Its just a more exciting product all around. Not from a single game perspective, but as a whole.

Those are bad teams, though. Actually, probably the worst part of the country in terms of NBA basketball. And yeah, side by side with Big East Basketball. I would probably be a college fan if I lived there and had access those NBA teams and those college teams.

DSGamer wrote:
mindset.threat wrote:

May not be fact but a growing segment of the population feels this way. In this area we have access to the Nets, Knicks and Sixers...completely average teams that have gotten into the habit of retreading coaches and players. The only reason to watch these guys is to see the other team.

On the other hand, we're in Big East country. Its just a more exciting product all around. Not from a single game perspective, but as a whole.

Those are bad teams, though. Actually, probably the worst part of the country in terms of NBA basketball. And yeah, side by side with Big East Basketball. I would probably be a college fan if I lived there and had access those NBA teams and those college teams.

Just trying to reiterate what GG said earlier. In this part of the country, the NBA is a bad product. The three franchises I mentioned are probably 1-2-3 in games lost over the last 10 years.

Edit: I know the Knicks were #1 in losses for awhile, not sure about Philly and NJ any more.

mindset.threat wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
mindset.threat wrote:

May not be fact but a growing segment of the population feels this way. In this area we have access to the Nets, Knicks and Sixers...completely average teams that have gotten into the habit of retreading coaches and players. The only reason to watch these guys is to see the other team.

On the other hand, we're in Big East country. Its just a more exciting product all around. Not from a single game perspective, but as a whole.

Those are bad teams, though. Actually, probably the worst part of the country in terms of NBA basketball. And yeah, side by side with Big East Basketball. I would probably be a college fan if I lived there and had access those NBA teams and those college teams.

Just trying to reiterate what GG said earlier. In this part of the country, the NBA is a bad product. The three franchises I mentioned are probably 1-2-3 in games lost over the last 10 years.

Edit: I know the Knicks were #1 in losses for awhile, not sure about Philly and NJ any more.

I completely understand. That's wholly different from saying "the entire NBA is a bad product. FACT."

The NBA is a bad product because teams clustered in a geographical area lose a lot. What's not to understand?

carrotpanic wrote:

The NBA is a bad product because teams clustered in a geographical area lose a lot. What's not to understand?

So lets get this straight.. it's a great product? You would change nothing? Please illuminate me on how well this current NBA works.. since I'm apparently delusional and an idiot and only think its bad because the Sixers are losing.

Yes I'm that big a moron and have no merit in what I'm saying... tell me how I'm wrong.

I think it's a very good product, and superior to college basketball. Because you and your friends don't like it doesn't make it a bad product. The NBA has never been more popular globally. I've yet to hear a reason why you think the "product is bad," aside from poor shooting percentages (in your estimation). The NBA is an great athletic competition with many impressive feats night in and night out, interesting rivalries, and compelling stars.

On a separate note, the current lockout is a power struggle and money grab by the owners irrespective of the popularity and upward momentum of the sport, fueled by accounting fraud.

If you don't like it, that's fine. I might suggest posting in another thread, regarding something you actually care about.

TheGameguru wrote:

Yes I'm that big a moron and have no merit in what I'm saying... tell me how I'm wrong.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I think they're saying you have an opinion and you're stating it as fact. This is kind of an insane discussion. You're basically forcing those of us who like the NBA to submit to your opinion or else you'll say things like this.

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