Well written post. You hit on the key when you say that you will still play with the GWJ crew. I learned a long time ago that it is less the game you play than who you play it with. Since I hooked up with you all, playing JO or any FPS on a server is kinda boring. But playing with you guys, talking on TS and acting as a team (for the most part) brings it alive. The jokes, the insults, the complaining, the occasional tactics are the reasons I come back, the reason I buy new shooters just to be with the majority of the GWJ crew. The best game in the world can be as boring as hell without good friends to play it with, and a flawed one can produce a great time with really unforgettable moments with those guys along side.

Edit: Just read everything Swampy wrote. His eloquent brevity shames my digressive nature.

I''m all about the Joint Ops but I agree with everything you wrote. What makes Joint Ops personally enjoyable to me is the combination of an otherwise mediocre game (consisting of elements I personally enjoy) with a great community like GWJ.

It is extremely distressing to me to play on a server with approximately 60-75% of the population being medics but still having to respawn after every death!

I don''t have an answer as to how to balance the snipers. Make it more like real life, I suppose. Cap the number of snipers per team. A proficient sniper is truly a force multiplier but they aren''t very common.

I would also request that the vehicles suck less. The physics alone are kidney stone painful but the utility of many vehicles are actually quite limited. Part of the reason for that is that the physics are so bugged. As many of you know, shooting of a passenger Little Bird is pretty much an exercise in futility that will either result in a miss or worse yet; your own bullets, grenades, or rockets striking your own vehicle and causing a team kill.
The other limiting factor for these vehicles is that while many of them have specific purposes (troop and cargo transport) they actually suck a great deal in that role. Other than us screwing around with the Chinook the other night, I can''t think of a single airlift operation I''ve seen. No exciting ""behind-the-lines"" dune buggy drop. That''s mostly because a Chinook could easily be hit with a RPG or AT4 due to it being so damn slow!
The same principle pretty much is in play when it comes to amphibious operations as well. Our small team of about eight people effectively thwarted multiple amphibious operations on a certain TKOTH map. Once the LCAC or whatever is destroyed, the remaining BTR''s or Strykers are easy pickin''s.

Taken as a whole, many different flaws can create quite a disappointing experience in a large game of this nature. But really, it''s taken a quarter year for many of them (sniper exploits, needing FF on, etc.) to become really omni-present.
This isn''t the end of Joint Ops for me. I enjoy the gameplay elements too much. But a patch would be welcome.

Swampy and I have had this conversation many times and it boils down to:

It is the gamers and not the game that makes the time spent worthwhile.

I haven''t played Joint Ops yet but have to agree that players take advantage of balancing issues when they pop up. If I remember correctly, the Medic class in BF1942 was also a favorite of the ""Rambo"" style players. Charge in, kill the bad guys, med yourself, repeat. I wish more team-oriented FPS took the idea from America''s Army in which there were a limited number of riflemen, grenade launchers and sniper rifles (etc) available to each team. If a team of 12 players is limited to 2 or 3 snipers then it significantly changes the tactics for everyone. Also, in real life combat situations, what''s the real probability that an opposing force is going to have more snipers than infantry? Just an idea, doubt we''ll ever see it.

Even though I''ve had the game for weeks, I''m just getting into it now. I just started playing through the training missions last night so I won''t be so much of a sack on game nights. I thought the sniper mission was fun, but not really my style. So far I think I like the engineer class best. See you guys tonight.

I really like the idea of being able to limit the number of snipers and medics on a server. That would really help the balancing issues. I think I''ll try the rifleman tonight, that m203 is tits.

So should I order the game or not?

I think Elysium is trying to say that he would like to give his game to ColdForged or Lester_King.

I''m going to lean towards no, Lester. Why? Well, outside of the GWJ crew, which is bound to get bored of it eventually, there is little intrinsic value in the game.

While it might be good to have another rifle, I worry that by the time you get it, we''ll all be bored of it, and you got yourself a nice coaster.

Its not like there is a dearth of online shooters, or shooter mods.

There is more depth to Red Orchestra, the mod for Unreal Tournament 2004 than there is in Joint Ops, for an example.

Save your money for Half Life 2 or Battlefield 2.

Yes, yes, we are a fickle and transient bunch.

You people make me feel like a whore.

It doesn''t, I was just illustrating two better uses of his money. for me, it will be both.

Zedian, get off me.

I totally and completely disagree with this. Every game gets boring after a while and that time has not yet come for JO. Buy it and content yourself that it is a good purchase. We''ve had a helluva good time almost every night.

While the game does have problems (which game doesn''t).Most of them can be solved by finding a decent server. Hint:not the official ones .The good far outweighs the bad. Till the next online fps anyway =)

Outpost has it for $19.99 at the moment. Was thinking of picking it up myself, but there''s so many other games to play at the moment. Uggh. Maybe I''ll see you guys on some distant Thursday.

I actually don''t play JO unless its with the GWJ guys. So far I''m not even a bit tired of JO.