I go through stages with the games I play, especially PC games. When I first load it up I'm in full-on "performance enhancement mode" where I try to optimize the graphics and controls as much as possible. Once I'm satisfied with that I tend to forget about textures, particles and other technical things for the most part unless something stands out because it is especially well done or it's not consistent with the rest of the presentation.

If a game is good the technical angle will service the gameplay and you won't think about it one way or another once you get into it. Splinter Cell stands out in my mind as a game that looked great and settled nicely as you played.

I've never really thought too deeply on how the games work. When I first played Morrowind I was enamored with the depth and beauty of the game. The only thing I ever really thought about was why no one went inside when it got dark like in Daggerfall, but that's about it.

When I played the Chaser single-player demo and I was running around the catwalks, two of the bad guys flanked me and then leapt into the air and onto the catwalk on either side of me. I didn't really consider the AI or algorithms or anything, just that it was damn cool.

As I was a "computer guy" for a living for the past three years I tend to tune out things like that when it comes to playing games. I may know how to set up a firewall and lockdown an ftp server, but I've made a point not to know about anti-aliasing or bump-mapping. It just lets me focus on the gameplay.

I agree with these sentiments Pyro. The strange thing is how much more this gets magnified in mutiplayer games. It seems that if you are playing the game by yourself these little things go completely unnoticed yet when the game becomes multiplayer enabled we go and read about it on the message boards and communicate with other people playing the game. Unfortunately the minority of people who actually care about min/maxing every possible number in the game are there as well. Then once they point out some numerical oddities you can't help but feel inadequate about your significantly less efficient numbers.

Case in point RPGs and MMORPGs. In Planescape did you ever feel the need to max out your character? Yet in every MMORPG it seems that everyone wants to maximize their characters effectiveness otherwise they begin to feel inadequate. They have even created a term for this state: Gimped.

Obviously the lack of plot and story in online games could take partial blame for this phenomenon. But I think it goes further than that. It seems like even when there is some decent story based content a signifcant portion of the gameplayers simply ignore it, which I guess gets back to your point above. One way I could think of to at least diminish the player fixation on numbers and min/maxing would be to hide the numbers completely and replace them with more broad descriptions of the relative strenghts and weaknesses of their character. Perhaps this would get people to begin looking at the actual story and characters in the game. But that is a tough decision for a developer to make, since almost every RPG in the history of the genre relys on numbers not only for calculations but as part of the fun as well.

I've been thinking about this subject lately, and I've come to grips with the fact that I *just don't care* about the story. Or the characters. Or the graphics (unless they're especially wow-worthy). Or anything else not relating to gameplay. After listening to people blather on and on in BG:DA, my GF and I couldn't hit the "skip" button fast enough in speeches from then on. Does it relate directly to our ability to whoop ass? No? Sorry - SKIP!

It's not that I don't want to be challenged, or that I'm some heartless monster who just doesn't want to care about emotional ramifications of Hero #38938's battle vs. the Evil Foozle; it's just that when I sit down to play a game, I want to PLAY a GAME. If I want an involving fantasy story, I'll read 'The Book of Silence' again. If I wanted beautiful sci-fi cutscenes, I'd pop 'Blade Runner' in the DVD player. Each of which (in my opinion) do a vastly better job in that regard than any game I can think of. When a game manages to involve me in its story to the point that either of these mediums can, I'll pay attention. Until then, SKIP!

You're really missing the point Pyro is trying to make here, which applies especially well to MMORPGs. They are what you choose make of them. Instead of spoon-feeding you a linear story and telling you who your character is supposed to be, MMORPGs give you a world to make your own stories in. I'm playing Horizons right now, and if all you do in the game is spend your time standing in front of a workbench making wooden spoons it is very boring. You have to develop the personality and goals of your character by interacting with other people in the game. Gamers are always complaining about a lack of open-ended gameplay, but when you really give it to them most lose interest because they don't have the creativity to make it work.

Well, there is a double standard at work here.

On the one hand, there is a rabid group of statisticians that can drone on and on about their levels and such, and for that, I blame games like Diablo, where picking up the next item is the games raison d'etre. There's nothing wrong with that type of game, just that it gets old after a while.

On the other hand, story driven titles, say like Max Payne 2 get knocked because there is a story to advance, so there is minor replayability-if you know the story, little need to sink extra time into the game.

Maybe there is a balance to be achieved, but preious few titles have been able to.

Well, really mateo my problem isn't with games that are mainly number driven. Sometimes it's okay to sit down at a game like Diablo and just chill. My problem is with gamers stuck in this mode, which try to turn any game into a numbers game. We end up creating the problem we spend so much time lamenting, that the story of almost any game out there sucks out loud.

The problem is that a lot of gamers (including myself) just don't agree with that statement. To us, it's NOT all about the story, and we're voting for gameplay over plot with our gaming $$. It's not that we're ignorant of the Wonders of Plot; it's just that we couldn't care less.

If you want more story-driven games (KOTOR, DX : IW), buy them, and use the numbers to prove your point to the publishers. Otherwise, they'll keep putting out games that don't float your boat.

Hey do I get credit for my posts here in the comments section? Cause if not I would much rather have these posts moved to the forums. I mean after all whats the point of posting if it's not going to raise my GWJ title?

I'm not sure I understand, you think the point of posting is to raise your title?

Hey where do I get my postcount +1 smiley?
This is smiley favortism. I wont stand for it.

In the bit about Planescape Torment I wasn't poking fun at the guy because he didn't read the story (okay, maybe a little ) but I was pointing out that focusing on the gameplay details to the point of ignoring everything else about the game makes for a pretty dull game. Same thing with the technophile, he was focusing on technical details instead of actually enjoying the graphics. It's focusing on details at the expense of everything else around you, not just a gameplay vs. story debate. It's like playing Diablo and being obsessed with your Poison Resistance or Armor Class instead of actually playing the game. It's not that most gamers just don't care about the story, though several don't, it's that most gamers have a bad case of Tunnel vision. IMO anyway.

Bam, you're right in with the rest of us. Don't you think some sort of meaningful story or mythology element tied into your character and the overall gameplay might have kept you interested?

That's the whole point of the thread.

The Ykesha expansion pack had a major story element in it.

The Frogs took over Guk. I thought that was really neat to throw and angle like that in there after all these years.

Sometimes effective story elements are subtle.