500k to 800k pack mall to protest anti-abortion

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sigfry's picture
Location: Saint Louis

Or, as Ral and several right leaners would put it, wasted time at the mall.

From CNN-

Abortion rights protest packs National Mall

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Abortion-rights supporters marched in the hundreds of thousands Sunday, galvanized by what they see as an erosion of reproductive freedoms under President Bush and policies that hurt women worldwide.

Amid the clamor of an election year, the throng of demonstrators flooded the National Mall. Their target: Bush, like-minded officials in federal and state government and religious conservatives.

Speaking beyond the masses to policy-makers, Francis Kissling of Catholics for a Free Choice declared, "You will hear our pro-choice voices ringing in your ears until such time that you permit all women to make our own reproductive choices."

Women joined the protest from across the nation and from nearly 60 countries, asserting that damage from Bush's policies is spreading far beyond U.S. shores through measures such as the ban on federal money for family-planning groups that promote or perform abortions abroad.

The rally on the National Mall stretched from the base of the U.S. Capitol about a mile back to the Washington Monument. Authorities no longer give formal crowd estimates, but various police sources informally estimated the throng at between 500,000 and 800,000 strong.

That would exceed the estimated 500,000 who protested for abortion rights in 1992.

Carole Mehlman, 68, came from Tampa, Florida, to support a cause that has motivated her to march for 30 years, as long as abortion has been legal.

"I just had to be here to fight for the next generation and the generation after that," she said. "We cannot let them take over our bodies, our health care, our lives."

Advocates said abortion rights are being weakened at the margins through federal and state restrictions and will be at risk of reversal at the core if Bush gets a second term.

"Know your power and use it," Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, House Democratic leader, exhorted the masses. "It is your choice, not the politicians'."

And feminist Gloria Steinem accused Bush of squandering international good will and taking positions so socially conservative that he seems -- according to Steinem -- to be in league with the likes of Muslim extremists or the Vatican.

Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York, referring to the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, said the administration is "filled with people who ... consider Roe v. Wade the worst abomination of constitutional law in our history."

Preseident criticized on the Mall
Organizers set up voter registration tables; supporters of John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, handed out stickers. The event was not overtly partisan but denunciations of Bush set the tone from the stage and the ground.

The throngs gathered by the Washington Monument for opening speeches and set off along Pennsylvania Avenue, looping back to the Mall near the Capitol. They moved slowly, bottlenecked by their own numbers.

A much smaller contingent of abortion opponents assembled along a portion of the route to protest what they called a "death march." Among them were women who had had abortions and regretted it; they dressed in black.

Tabitha Warnica, 36, of Phoenix, said she had two abortions when she was young. "We don't have a choice. God is the only one who can decide," she said.

Police used barricades and a heavy presence at that site to keep it from becoming a flashpoint. Both sides yelled at each other as the vanguard of the march reached the counter-demonstration.

"Look at the pictures, look at the pictures," shouted abortion opponents, holding up big posters showing a fetus at eight weeks.

"Lies, lies," marchers shouted back.

Police arrested 16 people from the Christian Defense Coalition for demonstrating without a permit and another anti-abortion protester for throwing ink-filled plastic eggs at rally signs.

Celebrities familiar to the abortion-rights movement led the parade, among them Whoopi Goldberg, Kathleen Turner and Cybill Shepherd.

Although Roe v. Wade still anchors abortion rights, some states have imposed waiting periods before abortions, requirements that girls under 18 notify their parents, and other limits that have closed abortion clinics or discouraged doctors from performing abortions.

Bush has signed a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortion, and the first federal law to endow a fetus with legal rights distinct from the pregnant woman.

Abortion-rights supporters say a fragile Supreme Court majority in favor of Roe v. Wade could be lost if Bush is president long enough to fill vacancies that come up in the court. Kerry supports abortion rights.

Kate Michelman, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, said the march was about more than the right to a safe abortion.

"The march is about the totality of women's lives and the right to make decision about our lives," she said.

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ralcydan's picture

I couldn''t get past the first paragraph:

Quote:
Abortion-rights supporters marched in the hundreds of thousands Sunday, galvanized by what they see as an erosion of reproductive freedoms under President Bush and policies that hurt women worldwide.

Let''s take these one at a time. The protestors were galvanized by ""erosion of reproductive freedoms under President Bush."" Can anyone name a reproductive freedom lost under Bush?

Reagan understood that the key to peace was never arms control. Security had nothing to do with the number of weapons, it had everything to do with the intention and power of those who possessed them. - Charles Krauthammer

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Gorilla.800.lbs's picture
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Am I glad you found yourself a paragraph!!!

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Minase's picture
Location: Seattle, WA

Quote:
The protestors were galvanized by ""erosion of reproductive freedoms under President Bush."" Can anyone name a reproductive freedom lost under Bush?

Since you couldn''t get past the first paragraph, you may have missed this:
Quote:
Bush has signed a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortion, and the first federal law to endow a fetus with legal rights distinct from the pregnant woman.

While I don''t think that it''s anything to march about, technically it could be considered an erosion.

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ralcydan's picture

Quote:
While I don''t think that it''s anything to march about, technically it could be considered an erosion.

The partial birth abortion ban isn''t in effect. It also was voted for by about 1/3 of Senate Democrats. So how does this bipartisan measure, which hasn''t affected a single person (and can''t currently) erode anything?

Reagan understood that the key to peace was never arms control. Security had nothing to do with the number of weapons, it had everything to do with the intention and power of those who possessed them. - Charles Krauthammer

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Certis's picture

Seems to me that protesting something before it comes into effect is a better idea than waiting until it''s set in stone.

I don''t really have an opinion on this particular issue mind you.

Certis beat me to it. - Elysium

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Minase's picture
Location: Seattle, WA

Quote:
The partial birth abortion ban isn''t in effect.

I''m confused. Do you mean to say that the article was incorrect, and that Bush didn''t sign a ban, or that the law that Bush signed just hasn''t gone into effect yet?
Quote:
The partial birth abortion ban isn''t in effect. It also was voted for by about 1/3 of Senate Democrats. So how does this bipartisan measure, which hasn''t affected a single person (and can''t currently) erode anything?

The very act of giving a fetus individual legal standing, even an extremely limited one as in this case, is something that could certainly classify as an erosion. I''m sure these women see it as the initial smoothing of a slippery slope that would return them to the times where they did not have the right to choose - hence the march.

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ralcydan's picture

Quote:
I''m confused. Do you mean to say that the article was incorrect, and that Bush didn''t sign a ban, or that the law that Bush signed just hasn''t gone into effect yet?

Neither. It has been stayed by the courts.

Quote:
I''m sure these women see it as the initial smoothing of a slippery slope that would return them to the times where they did not have the right to choose

Oh, so they seepotentialerosions. Huh, the article didn''t say that.

I found this exchange interesting:

Quote:
""Look at the pictures, look at the pictures,"" shouted abortion opponents, holding up big posters showing a fetus at eight weeks.

""Lies, lies,"" marchers shouted back.


Now I know that Democrats have seen the power of yelling ""liar,"" since it has been so effective when directed at lying Democrats, but to exactly what lie were the protesters referring? Do they think that the photos of 8 week-old fetuses were digitally created? Boggles the mind.

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Robear's picture

Looks now like it was over 750K, according to the DC police, and may well have exceeded 1 million. Might be the largest march ever.

Ral, what do you think of the presence of protesters at the rally, waving signs and shouting slogans? They were clearly disruptive in intent. Should they have even been there?

Robear

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belt's picture
Location: Taxachusetts

I think that the title of the article is misleading:

Quote:
Abortion rights protest packs National Mall

By the title, you''d think that they''re protesting against abortion rights when in fact it''s just the opposite. Damn conservitive media misleading us!


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Farscry's picture
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"Robear wrote:
Ral, what do you think of the presence of protesters at the rally, waving signs and shouting slogans? They were clearly disruptive in intent. Should they have even been there?

tsk, tsk, Robear. You know that only counts if people are protesting near the presence of the president, where even something such as silently turning your back on him counts as being disruptive and a threat to the peace.

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Ulairi's picture

Why do people think it is a big deal to get a million people out protesting? It isn''t that hard to do that.

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Gorilla.800.lbs's picture
Location: New York, NY

"Ulairi wrote:
Why do people think it is a big deal to get a million people out protesting? It isn''t that hard to do that.

Sure. Just ask our president -- he managed to get millions of people to protest worldwide (against his policies, that is).

If GW could do that, everyone should be able to!

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Robear's picture

Quote:

Why do people think it is a big deal to get a million people out protesting? It isn''t that hard to do that.

Which rallies or gatherings in the US have had a million or more people attend? Did you have a particular one in mind?

Robear

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maladen's picture
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"Ulairi wrote:
Why do people think it is a big deal to get a million people out protesting? It isn''t that hard to do that.

I tell you why I think it is a big deal. Do you know the traffic nightmare these people cause?

I love living where I do but I really wish protesters would remember that normal people live here too and to keep that in mind.

Not picking on this march over any other but it was huge. What would have made this awesome is if the Cicadas were out yet.

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Ulairi's picture

Give me a month and I can get a lot of leftist out protesting. That is what is great about the grass roots democratic party. It is made up a lot of fringe groups that are not found of the people of this country or this country its self. So you get the leadership to pull them together in the streets. Get a few normal people out on TV giving interviews and it makes it look like America is really pissed off.

For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988

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Or Louis Farrikan.

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Gorilla.800.lbs's picture
Location: New York, NY

"maladen wrote:
"Ulairi wrote:
Why do people think it is a big deal to get a million people out protesting? It isn''t that hard to do that.

I love living where I do but I really wish protesters would remember that normal people live here too and to keep that in mind.

I respectfully disagree. It''s like buying a house near an interstate or railroad, and then complaining that the noise is too loud, and asking to move the road a few miles away from your house.

You knew where you were settling down, didn''t you?

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ralcydan's picture

Quote:

""I''m more old-fashioned than a lot of women ... I don''t view abortion as just a nothing. It is stopping the process of life."" - Theresa Heinz Kerry

I wonder if she was invited to speak...

Reagan understood that the key to peace was never arms control. Security had nothing to do with the number of weapons, it had everything to do with the intention and power of those who possessed them. - Charles Krauthammer

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Gorilla.800.lbs's picture
Location: New York, NY

In the list of other people who weren''t invited, are The Man Himself and John Paul II the Pope. And your point is? These women rallied to get their message across.

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Robear's picture

Quote:

Give me a month and I can get a lot of leftist out protesting. That is what is great about the grass roots democratic party. It is made up a lot of fringe groups that are not found of the people of this country or this country its self. So you get the leadership to pull them together in the streets. Get a few normal people out on TV giving interviews and it makes it look like America is really pissed off.

You do realize that it''s the modern *Republican* party that''s built on 20 years of methodical grass-roots activation of both the hardcore issue-holders and the Christian constituency? Ralph Reed and others have laid this out pretty well. The problem with the modern Democratic party is it''s *lack* of ability to mobilize at the grass-roots level, outside of unions. That''s why Howard Dean was such a surprise. Just look at the sources of campaign funds for both parties and you''ll see what I mean.

Still and all, 750K to a million people is a huge statement. Can''t you think of any other rallies that size in the US? I''m having trouble coming up with any.

I do find it interesting that one of the largest rallies in US history can be dismissed as a bunch of uninformed and fringe America-haters assembled for PR purposes...As if this issue has anything to do with love of country. Come on, this is not a fringe issue, it''s one of the deepest divides in the country.

Robear

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""Look at the pictures, look at the pictures,"" shouted abortion opponents, holding up big posters showing a fetus at eight weeks.

""Lies, lies,"" marchers shouted back.

This is where I stopped reading. I have stated my opinion on this subject before, so I won''t bore you with it again. I will say that the conversation will never progress until we talk about the issue for what it is: the termination of a baby. There might be perfectly valid reasons for why that needs to occur - but call a spade a spade.

I''m pro-choice...I think everyone in their right mind is pro-choice. I just think the choice occurs when you decide to have sex, not after a baby is conceived.

Good for Bush for putting an end to late-term abortions without medical neccesity.

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Minase's picture
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I just think the choice occurs when you decide to have sex, not after a baby is conceived.

When we get 100% reliable, free/near free birth control (no, abstinence doesn''t count, most humans won''t live like monks) I''ll be happy to agree with that statement, JMJ.

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Quote:
Bush has signed a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortion, and the first federal law to endow a fetus with legal rights distinct from the pregnant woman.

I cannot call a ban on partial-birth abortions ""erosion"". It can only be termed ""Sanity"". No matter where you stand with abortion issues, there is NO justifiable reason for this procedure. If the woman did not want the child, it would be completely irresponsible and dangerous to wait until the moment of birth. The baby is technically out of the womb, they just keep the head in so you kill the child while it''s still ""inside"" the mother. I cannot understand how anyone could justify this. It is very dangerous to the mother. It is nothing less than infanticide.

Partial-birth abortion should not be included as a viable topic in the abortion debate. To bring it up as an example of erosion in this rally just shows a sense of desperation and lack of value for human life.

Quote:
""I just had to be here to fight for the next generation and the generation after that,"" she said. ""We cannot let them take over our bodies, our health care, our lives.""

The next generation is the one being killed.

Quote:
""The march is about the totality of women''s lives and the right to make decision about our lives,"" she said.

Without any regard for the welfare of their own children. No wonder kids these days are so f*cked up. Most parents don''t give a sh*t. It''s all about ""me"".

/flame off...

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Location: bay area

Quote:
Francis Kissling of Catholics for a Free Choice declared,

Excommunicated!

edit: So Ulairi, being pro-choice is a fringe group?

Being fangoriously devoured by a gelatinous monster.

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JohnnyMoJo's picture
Location: Atlanta, GA

Quote:
When we get 100% reliable, free/near free birth control (no, abstinence doesn''t count, most humans won''t live like monks) I''ll be happy to agree with that statement, JMJ.

Minase, that is a wonderful sentiment. Which will never happen, so we can disregard it. Sex is an adult game, and requires adult decisions. If you don''t want to accept the potential risks associated with sex (STD, Pregnancy), then you might want to refrain from indulging.

Pretty simple actually.

"It's so much easier to suggest solutions when you don't know too much about the problem." - Malcolm Forbes

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Minase's picture
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Which will never happen, so we can disregard it.

Since you can see the future, when do you think the XBox 2 will come out?

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ralcydan's picture

"Robear wrote:
Still and all, 750K to a million people is a huge statement. Can''t you think of any other rallies that size in the US? I''m having trouble coming up with any.

What statement does it make? That the Democrats are made up of people with too much free time? That college students like to travel on their parents'' money? That 500,000 guys will sit throughanythingto try and meet 500,000 easy girls?

I think the fact that you don''t see millions of pro-life protesters in the streets should tell everyone just how useless this march is. The fact is that abortion wouldn''t become illegal if Roe v. Wade went away. Based on current attitudes, the voting public would keep abortion legal, but place restictions on it.

This is just another bs bogeyman by the left to attack Republicans.

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Ulairi's picture

"fangblackbone wrote:
Quote:
Francis Kissling of Catholics for a Free Choice declared,

Excommunicated!

edit: So Ulairi, being pro-choice is a fringe group?

From the speeches I saw, yes.

For instance, there are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. When I learned that, I gave Jesus a chance. ~Ron Shelton, Bull Durham, 1988

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sigfry's picture
Location: Saint Louis

LOL
Thanks Ral, for confirming what I stated in my first post here:
Or, as Ral and several right leaners would put it, wasted time at the mall.

People protest for a reason, and that''s to get heard and let people know that they are there. I''m sorry you see it as ""bs bogeymen by the left to attack Republicans"". Perhaps you haven''t listened to Michael Savage, Ann Coulter, Bill O Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, or any of a myriad of other hosts that do nothing but mock democrats openly and berate them. That would be what I would call an attack; an open public display of protest (peacefully, mind you) is more what I consider compassionate. And Ulairi, I will give you that month (in the summer time, if you like, when you aren''t working on school) to assemble your million ""leftists"", and I would go there to add one more for you. Just to support you, depending on the issue, of course.

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Gorilla.800.lbs's picture
Location: New York, NY

BTW Million Mom March 2002 also assembled 750,000 people, all rallying to put tougher restrictions on gun trade.

But I am sure our friends here will also discount them off as a ""fringe group"", no?

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