Dragon Age 2 - Catch All

Scratched wrote:

After playing through origins on normal, easy is a laugh. Enemies pretty much just fall over.

I played on normal up to the point where you go to rescue someone and can refuse arrest. I just couldn't beat that fight on normal, and after that I kept it on easy. I enjoyed it more that way. The combat just became too much of a chore eventually. Some areas were just so long with nothing but endless enemy encounters. Certainly old school in the sense of "lets make the game three times as long without making three times as much content". I guess it's great if you love the combat but I never really got into it. All the abilities you got felt so mundane except for the crazy AoE spells.

I think many of the encounters were balanced on the premise that you'd abuse your combos to the gills. By Denerim, I was pretty much just applying Storm of the Century to everything and I was walking all over the encounters on Hard. Even before that, Earthquake+Inferno was some kind of mean.

I'm glad the game can be beaten in under 30 hours. Although I like a long game, I tend not to replay them because of the time investment involved, which means I miss out on some content because of the decisions I made on my one playthrough. I replayed ME1 three times because I could beat it in about 15 hours so I was able to explore the different classes and choices, whereas I didn't do the same with DA:O.

I'm so torn on whether to purchase this game on Day 1 or not. I'm really not a fan of paying $60 for the game and would love to wait for the Steam Summer Sale. But, damn. I really want to play the game.

BTW. Sinkwater, your avatar is freaky!

I'm watching the game on 1up's Game Night. Kind of like a live Giant Bomb quick look.

Scooter was playing on hard to start with and died on the first battle. He's now up to the part where you run into Anders, and there is a reference to a certain cat that made me smile.

Side note, the number of viewers has topped out around 800. I've seen TNT episodes (Giant Bomb's weekly live multiplayer session) with over 2000 viewers. Strange that a big site like 1up can't muster even half that. I guess they really have been knocked down a few notches.

Definitely not a day 1 purchase for me. I have no doubt this will still be an enjoyable game, but to reward them with full price for a flawed experience, no thanks.

Christmas Sale for me, or even longer as I'll still be playing all the much better games that are due for release in Nov.

BlackSabre wrote:

Definitely not a day 1 purchase for me. I have no doubt this will still be an enjoyable game, but to reward them with full price for a flawed experience, no thanks.

Christmas Sale for me, or even longer as I'll still be playing all the much better games that are due for release in Nov.

I fully support your decision. However...isn't that last part a bit...premature? In a number of ways?

You're judging this game a week before it's out based on two reviews (both over 85%) and a demo. That's fair enough, the demo is there to give you an impression.

But how could you possibly know that the stuff in November is going to be great already? It's an impossible logic chasm for me to leap. I'm looking forward to Skyrim and.. er, what else was there? Uncharted and maybe ME3 I suppose, though I don't have a PS3 and ME2 was a pretty big let down to me. Saints Row 3 and Gears for me, but they're not November. That's beside my point, though.

Sadly the same thing has happened to me with this game that happened to me with Too Human; nearly every new piece of information I've seen has left me less interested than I was before, and unhappy with the direction the game was headed. The demo continued this trend for me. I'm not completely unsold, but it's definitely looking like a 'wait for a sale' sort of title as far as my bucks are concerned.

Blind_Evil wrote:
BlackSabre wrote:

Definitely not a day 1 purchase for me. I have no doubt this will still be an enjoyable game, but to reward them with full price for a flawed experience, no thanks.

Christmas Sale for me, or even longer as I'll still be playing all the much better games that are due for release in Nov.

I fully support your decision. However...isn't that last part a bit...premature? In a number of ways?

You're judging this game a week before it's out based on two reviews (both over 85%) and a demo. That's fair enough, the demo is there to give you an impression.

But how could you possibly know that the stuff in November is going to be great already? It's an impossible logic chasm for me to leap. I'm looking forward to Skyrim and.. er, what else was there? Uncharted and maybe ME3 I suppose, though I don't have a PS3 and ME2 was a pretty big let down to me. Saints Row 3 and Gears for me, but they're not November. That's beside my point, though.

Um, Batman Arkham City... need I say more?

Spoiler:

In case I do, ME3 (ME2 was my GOTY) and Battlefield 3

Also, it's not just basing it on 2 reviews and a demo. The whole experience/marketing ride that they've taken us all on hasn't been that pleasant. First the crap with the pre-order to get the signature edition 2 or so months before the release with barely a skerrick of information on the game, without releasing it on steam until after that. Then the constant consolisation of the game which as a PC gamer (with an xbox too so don't go thinking I'm anti console) is kind of irksome. Then you've got good ol' DLC rearing it's ugly head again with DLC already announced when the game hasn't even shipped.

So basically buying the game on day 1 is a lot like masturbation:

Spoiler:

It feels good at the time, but in the end, you realise you've just f#$&ed yourself.

BlackSabre wrote:

Also, it's not just basing it on 2 reviews and a demo. The whole experience/marketing ride that they've taken us all on hasn't been that pleasant. First the crap with the pre-order to get the signature edition 2 or so months before the release with barely a skerrick of information on the game, without releasing it on steam until after that. Then the constant consolisation of the game which as a PC gamer (with an xbox too so don't go thinking I'm anti console) is kind of irksome. Then you've got good ol' DLC rearing it's ugly head again with DLC already announced when the game hasn't even shipped.

So basically buying the game on day 1 is a lot like masturbation:

It feels good at the time, but in the end, you realise you've just f#$&ed yourself.

Fair enough on your reasons, they're yours. ME3 and Arkham will most likely have DLC schemes before they're out too, though, ME definitely. My roommate loved Arkham Asylum but I quit after you see the Batmobile for the first time. I'm just not into superheroes. I'm also not a Battlefield fan, more a CoD guy. I do plan to check out 3, though. Looks much better.

I guess you're right about buying games, any games, day one. I could wait until next year when it's $40 for the game and all the DLC, but I know myself too well for that. I'm a sucker for the new and shiny, and if I were to wait more than 6 months or so I would never get into it. At the end of the day the extra, let's say, 50 bucks for getting the game at launch and DLC separate is a drop in the bucket. Waiting forever and losing interest would be worse.

Completely understand. The new/shiny is always a draw. Many people will also say, "hey, it's Bioware, they always deliver". But to me that doesn't hold true any more. I've bought pretty much all their games (even several copies because of the different platforms), but they've really lost a lot of credit and respect lately with some of the stuff they've been doing. Reputation and nostalgia will only get them so far.

Besides, I've still got Battlefield Bad Company 2 and quite honestly, never have I had such a wonderful time playing a game that I got for $20. Almost reaching the 400 hour mark and it's not even an RPG.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I guess you're right about buying games, any games, day one. I could wait until next year when it's $40 for the game and all the DLC

It will be $25 on sale (Going by experience when I rebought DA:O because it was cheaper than buying the DLC)

If I didn't have so many great games already to play, I'd probably be much more interested right now instead of waiting. But I've gotten patient on these non-MP games.

Sinkwater wrote:

I'm glad the game can be beaten in under 30 hours. Although I like a long game, I tend not to replay them because of the time investment involved, which means I miss out on some content because of the decisions I made on my one playthrough. I replayed ME1 three times because I could beat it in about 15 hours so I was able to explore the different classes and choices, whereas I didn't do the same with DA:O.

Different strokes, but I NEVER replay games. I'd like my initial play-through to be worthy of my $60.

SommerMatt wrote:

Different strokes, but I NEVER replay games. I'd like my initial play-through to be worthy of my $60.

That's generally my feeling with almost every game. There's too many games out there to spend dozens of extra hours doing the same exact thing trying to unlock an additional cutscene/character/etc. Give me the full experience the first time through, we'll shake hands and have a great time, part as friends, and then I'll be ready to move on to the next game. Lack of replayability is of no consequence to me when considering the value of a game; in fact, a game that is knocked by reviewers for *not* having good replay value (Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, etc.) often is a positive for me, as it means that I expect it to be one hell of a ride the first (and likely only) time through.

LarryC wrote:

I think many of the encounters were balanced on the premise that you'd abuse your combos to the gills. By Denerim, I was pretty much just applying Storm of the Century to everything and I was walking all over the encounters on Hard. Even before that, Earthquake+Inferno was some kind of mean.

Did they ever teach you that spell combination in-game? I didn't know about it until I read about it in a wiki. Also, casting those AoE spells on stuff off screen that you haven't triggered yet - kinda broken.

Sinkwater wrote:

I'm glad the game can be beaten in under 30 hours. Although I like a long game, I tend not to replay them because of the time investment involved, which means I miss out on some content because of the decisions I made on my one playthrough. I replayed ME1 three times because I could beat it in about 15 hours so I was able to explore the different classes and choices, whereas I didn't do the same with DA:O.

I can understand wanting some games to be quick experiences, to show what they've got and be done, but isn't there room on the other end of the scale? I like some pocket sized games, but it's not one size fits all. I want to make a big investment to some games.

kyrieee wrote:

Did they ever teach you that spell combination in-game? I didn't know about it until I read about it in a wiki.

When you cast a combination you would get an entry in the codex.

There are new nvidia beta drivers, v267.24, that have "Improves compatibility with Dragon Age II." in the change notes.

I don't usually buy games at $60 or during release week, and I can count on one hand the number that I have. That being said, I'll be doing both for DA2. In fact, this is the only game I've ever really pre-ordered and am excited for. The demo left me with good impressions and the likelihood of replaying it multiple times is high for me.

I think I'm coming down with a *cough* and may have trouble getting to work next week. *cough* *cough*

For what it's worth, these are apparently Bioware's official (estimated) comparison in terms of length between the two games :

The following are of course approximated figures that show what the two games mainly consisted of:

Dragon Age: Origins
• 1,000,000 Words
• 1,000 Cinematics
• 1,000 Characters
• 56,000 Spoken Lines
• 60 Hours of Gameplay

Dragon Age II
• 400,000 Words
• 2,500 Cinematics
• 500 Characters
• 38,000 Spoken Lines
• 40 Hours of Gameplay

kyrieee wrote:
LarryC wrote:

I think many of the encounters were balanced on the premise that you'd abuse your combos to the gills. By Denerim, I was pretty much just applying Storm of the Century to everything and I was walking all over the encounters on Hard. Even before that, Earthquake+Inferno was some kind of mean.

Did they ever teach you that spell combination in-game? I didn't know about it until I read about it in a wiki. Also, casting those AoE spells on stuff off screen that you haven't triggered yet - kinda broken.

Discovered Storm of the Century on my own. Also, Shatter. Actually, shatter also works with not just Stone Fist, but a variety of powers from the other classes, so it's not like class combos are a new thing, come to think of it. Don't know if that's in the wiki. Earthquake+Inferno is likely not in the wiki either, as that's not really a formal spell combo, but just two things that work in a really, really nasty way.

Blizzard + Tempest by itself, actually is some kind of deadly. SoC is just overkill on anything other than Nightmare. I learned a bunch of stuff just by trying them out.

stevenmack wrote:

For what it's worth, these are apparently Bioware's official (estimated) comparison in terms of length between the two games :

The following are of course approximated figures that show what the two games mainly consisted of:

Dragon Age: Origins
• 1,000,000 Words
• 1,000 Cinematics
• 1,000 Characters
• 56,000 Spoken Lines
• 60 Hours of Gameplay

Dragon Age II
• 400,000 Words
• 2,500 Cinematics
• 500 Characters
• 38,000 Spoken Lines
• 40 Hours of Gameplay

I don't like to get into number comparisons, but 18 thousand fewer spoken lines, and this time they have a voiced protagonist? WTF?

Puce Moose wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:

Different strokes, but I NEVER replay games. I'd like my initial play-through to be worthy of my $60.

That's generally my feeling with almost every game.

Yup, I very seldom replay a game so I want my money's worth first time.

MrDeVil909 wrote:
stevenmack wrote:

For what it's worth, these are apparently Bioware's official (estimated) comparison in terms of length between the two games :

The following are of course approximated figures that show what the two games mainly consisted of:

Dragon Age: Origins
• 1,000,000 Words
• 1,000 Cinematics
• 1,000 Characters
• 56,000 Spoken Lines
• 60 Hours of Gameplay

Dragon Age II
• 400,000 Words
• 2,500 Cinematics
• 500 Characters
• 38,000 Spoken Lines
• 40 Hours of Gameplay

I don't like to get into number comparisons, but 18 thousand fewer spoken lines, and this time they have a voiced protagonist? WTF?

I second that! WTF?

breander wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:

I don't like to get into number comparisons, but 18 thousand fewer spoken lines, and this time they have a voiced protagonist? WTF?

I second that! WTF?

I do wonder how much of the decrease in word/spoken lines is due to removing the various origin mini-campaigns in favor of going with a single origin this time.

Which I still think sucks, as I've recently started a new character again in Dragon Age 1 and love how having a new origin portion of the game changes the feel of the game rather than feeling like a straight-up replay.

Farscry wrote:

I do wonder how much of the decrease in word/spoken lines is due to removing the various origin mini-campaigns in favor of going with a single origin this time.

Not that much I'd say. Your DA:O character isn't voiced, and I don't think the 6 origins and variations through the campaign account for that much.

As others have said, number comparisons are a bit weak as they're out of context. DA2 could be great by itself, but given the type of game it is, a reduction in most of the RP measures that matter (I'd say cinematics don't, as usually they're things you passively watch without the player affecting them) doesn't sound good.

Scratched wrote:
Farscry wrote:

I do wonder how much of the decrease in word/spoken lines is due to removing the various origin mini-campaigns in favor of going with a single origin this time.

Not that much I'd say. Your DA:O character isn't voiced, and I don't think the 6 origins and variations through the campaign account for that much.

As others have said, number comparisons are a bit weak as they're out of context. DA2 could be great by itself, but given the type of game it is, a reduction in most of the RP measures that matter (I'd say cinematics don't, as usually they're things you passively watch without the player affecting them) doesn't sound good.

Origins were what, 2-3 hours a piece? I'd say there could be a decent chunk of them there.

breander wrote:
MrDeVil909 wrote:
stevenmack wrote:

For what it's worth, these are apparently Bioware's official (estimated) comparison in terms of length between the two games :

The following are of course approximated figures that show what the two games mainly consisted of:

Dragon Age: Origins
• 1,000,000 Words
1,000 Cinematics
• 1,000 Characters
• 56,000 Spoken Lines
• 60 Hours of Gameplay

Dragon Age II
• 400,000 Words
2,500 Cinematics
• 500 Characters
• 38,000 Spoken Lines
• 40 Hours of Gameplay

I don't like to get into number comparisons, but 18 thousand fewer spoken lines, and this time they have a voiced protagonist? WTF?

I second that! WTF?

I would think a good portion of the dialogue will be happening in the 1500 more cinematics. I could be wrong, but that's my guess.

MannishBoy wrote:
Blind_Evil wrote:

I guess you're right about buying games, any games, day one. I could wait until next year when it's $40 for the game and all the DLC

It will be $25 on sale (Going by experience when I rebought DA:O because it was cheaper than buying the DLC)

I'm an unwashed console plebeian, so I'm sticking to $40. DA:O Ultimate is 45 right now on Amazon and it's been a year and 4 months.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I'm an unwashed console plebeian, so I'm sticking to $40. DA:O Ultimate is 45 right now on Amazon and it's been a year and 4 months.

EAStore.com had all versions on sale for right about $20 a few weeks ago

MannishBoy wrote:

Origins were what, 2-3 hours a piece? I'd say there could be a decent chunk of them there.

I'd say up to an hour each. Still fairly significant though.

I wonder how many words can be taken out just from Leliana's stories. Those seemed to take forever.

Stats tell me nothing about how I'm going to enjoy a game. You can look and wonder, and while they may have reasons for the ebb and flow, I'd be curious to see similar numbers for similar game series (like ME/ME2) and if it made any difference.