I'm not saying they're innocent because they're priests but at this point, with the popularity of the molesting priest stereotype, someone coming forward to say "25 years ago Father So-and-so molested me." is just an accusation. If we start assuming everyone is guilty because someone has a story about them we're heading back to the witch trial days.

(March 14) -- As sex abuse scandals rock the Vatican, the results of an investigation into a rich, ultra-conservative and secretive Roman Catholic order founded by a priest accused of pedophilia and incest are due to be filed in Rome on Monday.

The sordid story of the Legion of Christ, whose late founder, the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado, was a close ally of Pope John Paul II before being forcibly retired by the Vatican in 2006, is a microcosm of the crisis currently enveloping the church.

Wow, I just had 2 reactions to this at the same time. Weird. While reading the article I was thinking that it was almost like the church thinks the abuse is okay as long as it's not public knowledge. At the same time I was also noticing that whenever they mention the abuse it's always prefaced by accused, suspected, or believed. It seems very rare than any of these priests are actually convicted of anything. Is the church just that good at shielding the priests or are some of these incidents really just accusations with no basis?

Jesus Christ...

Quote:

"We find it extraordinarily hard to believe that Ratzinger didn't reassign the predator, or know about the reassignment," said Barbara Blaine, president and founder of SNAP, Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.

Oh, SNAP!

Quintin_Stone wrote:

It seems very rare than any of these priests are actually convicted of anything. Is the church just that good at shielding the priests or are some of these incidents really just accusations with no basis?

Maybe it's hard to convince a jury?

LobsterMobster wrote:

Quintin_Stone wrote:

It seems very rare than any of these priests are actually convicted of anything. Is the church just that good at shielding the priests or are some of these incidents really just accusations with no basis?

Maybe it's hard to convince a jury?

Misattributed quote there.

Matthew 18:5-6
5 "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Mark 9:42
42 "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.

Luke 17:1-3
1 One day Jesus said to his disciples, “There will always be temptations to sin, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting! 2 It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone hung around your neck than to cause one of these little ones to fall into sin.

SallyNasty wrote:

Tonight is our first class, and I almost don't want to go - family pressure be damned.

If you don't believe in baptism it's not a huge deal. Just go through the motions to make your family happy. Now if they demand your child marry a Catholic (when they want to marry a non-Catholic, mind you), that might be worth the fight.

LobsterMobster wrote:

SallyNasty wrote:

Tonight is our first class, and I almost don't want to go - family pressure be damned.

If you don't believe in baptism it's not a huge deal. Just go through the motions to make your family happy. Now if they demand your child marry a Catholic (when they want to marry a non-Catholic, mind you), that might be worth the fight.

Don't be a fool. Don't do it! During this process you will be making some promises that you apparently do not intend to keep. Is your word of honor worth so little?

EDIT: To be clear... the baptisms I've attended all included solemn promises to ensure the child is raised within the faith. This may not be the case for your denomination, but I'm preeetty sure it will be.

edit: I don't know about you, but if you're an agnostic or atheist, you can't really utter any one of the 12 articles of the Apostle's Creed without knowingly lying.

1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
5. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
10. the forgiveness of sins,
11. the resurrection of the body,
12. and life everlasting.

The very same Catholics that can be for war in Iraq and against abortion!

Paleocon wrote:

edit: I don't know about you, but if you're an agnostic or atheist, you can't really utter any one of the 12 articles of the Apostle's Creed without knowingly lying.

1. I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
2. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
3. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
4. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
5. He descended into hell. On the third day he rose again.
6. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
7. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
8. I believe in the Holy Spirit,
9. the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
10. the forgiveness of sins,
11. the resurrection of the body,
12. and life everlasting.

#4 isn't too bad. I think there was probably a dude name Jesus who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried.

#10 is nice too! Forgiveness is good mmmmmkay.