Camping gear question

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Bear's picture
Location: Syracuse, NY

My son Ben is getting ready to cross over into Boy Scouts. I'm exceptionally proud of him because not only has he earned the Arrow of Light (cub scouting's highest award) but he'll also earn the Super Achiever award.

As we get ready to transition into Boy Scouts I'm starting to wonder about the type of gear he'll need. I know the troop we're planning on joining has a ton of the bigger gear (camp stoves, tables, etc) so I won't need to worry about big stuff. What I'd like some recommendations on is:

Footwear - good all around hiking/camping models
Backpack - both framed and light day packs
Tent - I'm thinking about a Kelty Gunninson 4.1
Clothing - shirts, pants, outerwear. I just learned that cotton is a bad idea!

Plus anything I don't know or don't realize I should be asking about.

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Tach's picture

REI has great equipment. It's a co-op, you pay a one time $5 fee to join, but their stuff really is top of the line, and they have people who do actually know their stuff.

www.rei.com

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Location: Columbia, MD

I got most of my gear at REI.

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boogle's picture
Location: Austin

There isn't even one where I live, but REI.

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I have the Gunnison 4.1 Great tent. Incredibly easy to setup and extremely well designed. BE SURE to get a footprint for it, as well as a "gear loft" that hangs from the ceiling.

MOST IMPORTANT!!! A ground pad. I love Thermarest, especially the self inflating ones, but he's young and won't feel the ground as much so you could go with the cheaper and lighter closed cell foam types.

You're up in NY so you'll probably want to get a mummy bag. Depending on what time of year the camping is going to happen I'd suggest one that is rated to 0 or 20 degrees. It's easy to cool down when you're hot in a bag. Not so easy to warm up.

A headlamp. There are tons of these out there so just pick one that you like. You'll be amazed at how helpful they are instead of a hand held flashlight.

camel pack. Don't leave home without one.

As for a backpack you're probably better off getting an external frame pack instead of internal frame. External frames typically allow a lot more adjustments and you'll probably be able to keep using it longer as your son grows. Look for something that has multiple access points to the main storage compartments. That way you don't have to unpack everything if what you want is in the bottom compartment.

As for hiking boots it's hard to say since he's still growing. Asolo makes good boots but they're expensive and not worth it if you're only going to replace them in 6-8 months. Look for something that is waterproof (obviously) and make sure the tongue on the boot is one piece for as far up as possible. That will keep you dry if you hit a puddle or walk through a stream. Boots are going to be the most important. Make sure you really walk in them and get them fitted correctly. You don't want to be slamming your toes into the front of the boot on declines so make sure they have a ramp where you can walk up and down to test this out.

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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

REI is pretty expensive, but, as stated previously, it is top of the line and the employees know their stuff.
Pack:
I prefer a light internal frame for my pack as opposed to the external frame packs. I'm a huge fan of Kelty stuff. My camping partner took his Kelty on a tour in Afghanistan and brought it out on our trip last fall, and it is still going strong after ~8 years of use.
Tent:
I own a Kelty Mantra 3 tent that I have been extremely pleased with. They don't make the Mantra 3 anymore, but their 3-person tents are very similarly designed to mine. One awesome feature that my tent has is a "vestibule" at the entrance. This is a few square feet of dry storage that the rain fly covers, but is not in the sleeping area of the tent. We keep our packs and shoes out there.
One fantastic purchase I made was that I bought these MSR Groundhog tent stakes. They are quite spendy, but it sure is nice having stakes that I can go Cro-magnum man on and bash into the ground with a rock and NEVER worry about bending or breaking them.
Sleeping bag:
I have a Kelty sleeping bag as well. I can't remember the model, but it fits in my camp coffee cup. It is rated to 40F, and after 8 years of use it is still holding together well, but I'd rate it around 60F these days.
Sleeping pads are quite important as well. I use this Therma-Rest knock-off from Cabelas. Works like a champ.

Footwear is personal preference, but in rocky terrain I prefer a boot and regular terrain I wear Crocs. Crocs are ugly as sh*t, but they are comfortable all day and I never have to worry about them getting wet.
Clothing is also personal preference, besides the general consensus that cotton is the devil. Personally I wear Dickies flat-front khakis. They are cheap and indestructible.

EDIT: Also, everything JC said.
My tent also has a gear loft. It is an awesome feature! Footprints are extremely important. They protect the floor of the tent and add an extra buffer to keep moisture out.
Headlamp- Make sure it is LED
Camelbacks are awesome.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Columbia, MD

My gear:

Pack: Mountainsmith
Tent: REI Quarterdome
Bag: Big Agnes Lost Ranger down
Pad: Big Agnes inflatable primaloft
Stove: Jetboil
Water Filter: First Need
Headlamp: Streamlight
Boots: Vasque Sundowners

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Pirate Bob's picture

http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/ - Sometimes you can find some good discounts here as well.

Sleeping:

Therm-a-Rest Mattresses - lightweight and so much more comfortable than any foam sleeping pad.

For sleeping bags, I usually get something really light that packs down tiny. At night, I wear long underwear if I'm cold.

Backpacks:

These you have to go and try a lot on. If you're going to be backpacking with heavy loads, something with a big, sturdy hip strap is a must since all the weight should be on your hips, not your shoulders. Internal vs external frame is a matter of preference. Internal frames can be a bit warmer, but my ancient external frame Jansport creaks and groans when it moves.

Footwear:

I don't wear big heavy hiking boots anymore. For backpacking a high-top boot might be nice on the ankles, but for any day hikes, I just wear a good trail running shoe like Montrail.

Misc:

Having a couple bandanas around turns out to be terribly useful. Cover a sunburned neck, wash cloth, sweat band...

For cooking, I've always used WhisperLites.

A water filter is tremendously useful. May want a more heavy duty one depending on the quality of water you're filtering from.

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Location: Columbia, MD

I used a Whisperlite for 15 years, but the new technology available in really innovative stoves like the Jetboil really warranted an upgrade. My Jetboil brings water to boil in half the time with half the fuel.

I think Paleocon is right about pretty much everything. -- Mex

Paleocon is entirely right --DanB

I agree with everything that Paleocon said... --Boudreaux

Paleo is right on. --Legion

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LiquidMantis's picture
Location: Golden, CO

I somewhat skimmed, but another huge benefit of paying the REI tax is their lifetime return policy.

I'm also a big fan of www.backcountry.com and all their child sites. I'm pretty sure I must be paying someone's kid's college tuition.

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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

For water purification I have an old First Need, but on my last trip we bought a SteriPen. It was ok at best. I lug water in 1 liter Nalgene bottles, and I ended up using one bottle to dunk into the stream/puddle and pour it through a coffee filter into another Nalgene bottle. It was a major PITA. By then end of the trip I got really lazy and just zapped the water with the UV pen and did't bother running it through the coffee filter. I drank coffee with a few insect wings in it one morning. Moral of the story: get a pump style water filtration system like a First Need. The UV pen is a novel idea, and I'm sure it has a place, just not in my pack; at least not as a sole source for drinking water.

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tanstaafl's picture
Location: R'lyeh

Another vote for REI. Yeah, they're more expensive but their staff makes up for it; the difference between "let's get you a pair of hiking boots" and "let's get you a pair of hiking boots that fit".

Just to echo some of what others have said, get a pair of hiking shoes for general dayhiking and boots for backpacking (you can turn an ankle a lot faster carrying a full pack). I know almost everyone uses internal frame packs these days but I still prefer my external frame because it lets air circulate between my back and the pack.

I'd recommend looking into a set of hiking poles too, especially when backpacking. I use a set of Lekis but get whatever he's more comfortable with. Poles are invaluable for keeping balance when crossing streams and the like and being able to use your arms to help going up hills is invaluable.

For clothing remember... Layers, layers, layers.

For tents, stoves, water filters and the like I would wait and see how the hikes would be organized. If there is a group leader who will be handling cooking for the group then there is no need to carry a stove of your own. I carry a Whisperlite myself (but be warned they can be a bit finicky) with an Outback Oven (there's nothing better than making muffins at a camp) and a First Need filter.

I don't think they make my tent anymore but it's a lot like this one.

It looks like there are a good number of hikers here, feel free to ask anything else you have.

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Rob_Anybody's picture
Location: Linotype-Hell

Another vote for REI. Their co-op membership program is actually pretty nice, especially when you can hit one of their attic sales. They basically throw all the stuff they have in storage that is used and they can't sell on the floor. It's mostly rented stuff or returns. I got a really nice $100 pair of hiking boots for $40, lightly used, and a friend picked up a really nice backpack for super cheap (someone had cut off the elastic canteen holders on the sides, but it was basically something that wouldn't get used anyways.) I will say though, that around here the attic sales draw a lot of people. The lines start 2 hours before the store opens usually, and non-members don't get in till pretty late. There's also a Hudson Trail Outfitters and and Eastern Mountain Sports near me which are pretty nice. HTO has a little hiking trail that winds through the store so you can try out boots and packs before you buy them.
I know my tent is Swiss Gear, but I don't know the model off the top of my head. (I don't think they make it anymore, I can't find it on the internets.)
My day pack is an REI brand pack that I got on clearance (again, don't know the model.) But as has been said, go try them on and see what fits.

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Location: Cambridge, UK

LobsterMobster wrote:
The PSG-1 is good. Don't use the AWP, it's for noobs.

I can't let this go without a Hee hee.

Hee hee!

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Robear's picture

Little things. Get a 100' pack of paracord and throw it in your kit. Useful for tons of stuff. Get a Sucrets tin or something of similar size and put some useful stuff in it - Swedish steel firestarter, 30' or so of medium fishing line, some hooks, signal mirror, etc as an emergency kit. Make sure you've got a good multipurpose tool and a bigger hatchet or similar. Sunblock is good to bring. A package of moleskin for blisters in the new boots. Make sure you've got an area topo, a good lensatic (and know how to use it) and a whistle, and carry them everywhere. Wool is best for any items of clothing that might get wet (cotton *sucks* when it's wet.) A few heavy rubber bands are useful too (closing pants legs against insects, for example). Oh, and a package of Moly cloth and a rag for cleaning blades after use.

Get a license for a GMRS radio (probably part of a merit badge anyway) and bring a pair along. Very useful when groups separate.

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boogle's picture
Location: Austin

tanstaafl wrote:
Just to echo some of what others have said, get a pair of hiking shoes for general dayhiking and boots for backpacking (you can turn an ankle a lot faster carrying a full pack).
When backpacking, I go running shoes whenever possible. Save a lot of energy and they dry faster. The ankle turning is a result of careless stepping and too heavy a pack. Did I mention I read Ray Jardine?

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Location: Columbia, MD

For outdoor clothing, a great source of bargains is www.sierratradingpost.com

I think Paleocon is right about pretty much everything. -- Mex

Paleocon is entirely right --DanB

I agree with everything that Paleocon said... --Boudreaux

Paleo is right on. --Legion

I love Paleocon. --- SallyNasty

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Norfair's picture
Location: Waukesha WI

Tach wrote:
REI has great equipment. It's a co-op, you pay a one time $5 fee to join, but their stuff really is top of the line, and they have people who do actually know their stuff.

www.rei.com

You might also want to check out REI Outlet. Me and my wife got really nice backpacks for like 50 bucks a piece because they were last year's model.

Another cool thing about REI is that they actually give you a dividend at the end of the year based on how much you actually spent. Naturally it is in the form of a gift card but better then nothing.

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Location: Columbia, MD

REI attic sales are the bomb.

I think Paleocon is right about pretty much everything. -- Mex

Paleocon is entirely right --DanB

I agree with everything that Paleocon said... --Boudreaux

Paleo is right on. --Legion

I love Paleocon. --- SallyNasty

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LiquidMantis's picture
Location: Golden, CO

Robear wrote:
A lot of recs.

To go with the Swedish steel, my favorite fire starters are cotton balls rubbed in vasoline. Work when wet, plus you could use them as lip balm in a pinch. Just pull one apart a bit so it'll catch a spark and it'll burn for a couple of minutes.

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Location: Richmond, VA

Tach wrote:
REI has great equipment. It's a co-op, you pay a one time $20 fee to join, but their stuff really is top of the line, and they have people who do actually know their stuff.

www.rei.com

FTFY

I know because my wife just got us signed up.

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NSMike's picture
Location: Akron, Ohio

LiquidMantis wrote:
Robear wrote:
A lot of recs.

To go with the Swedish steel, my favorite fire starters are cotton balls rubbed in vasoline. Work when wet, plus you could use them as lip balm in a pinch. Just pull one apart a bit so it'll catch a spark and it'll burn for a couple of minutes.

A similarly easy fire starter would be to carry some 0000 steel wool and a 9 volt battery. Keep them separated until you want to start a fire, though. When you need a fire, touch both terminals to the steel wool, and you've got a fire. Faster than you would believe, too. I did it by accident once while working on something in the garage and if I hadn't noticed it, it might have lit up my workbench in short order.

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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

LiquidMantis wrote:
Robear wrote:
A lot of recs.

To go with the Swedish steel, my favorite fire starters are cotton balls rubbed in vasoline. Work when wet, plus you could use them as lip balm in a pinch. Just pull one apart a bit so it'll catch a spark and it'll burn for a couple of minutes.


I can't start a fire unless I have a Duraflame and a Bernz-O-Matic. I wonder if I could best my inabilities with this little trick. Its a good thing my camping buddy is some kind of fire warlock and can create fire anywhere...

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Eezy_Bordone's picture
Location: Western Washington

Robear wrote:
Get a license for a GMRS radio (probably part of a merit badge anyway) and bring a pair along. Very useful when groups separate.

We got a set of these for xmas one year but I returned them because it looked like a PITA to get a license. Any US-side people know the process for this? I'd reconsider getting some now that my kids are getting older so if we get seperated (no big hikes for the Bordone's quite yet) I can feel better knowing that I've got a radio with a 2-5 mile radius.

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NSMike's picture
Location: Akron, Ohio

Eezy_Bordone wrote:
Robear wrote:
Get a license for a GMRS radio (probably part of a merit badge anyway) and bring a pair along. Very useful when groups separate.

We got a set of these for xmas one year but I returned them because it looked like a PITA to get a license. Any US-side people know the process for this? I'd reconsider getting some now that my kids are getting older so if we get seperated (no big hikes for the Bordone's quite yet) I can feel better knowing that I've got a radio with a 2-5 mile radius.

You could skip GMRS entirely and use FRS. FRS radios have a pretty nice range and don't require a license. The high-end of the range for an FRS radio is 2 miles. Generally GMRS is 5-7 miles. If you are really getting separated enough from someone that a 2-mile range is necessary, you're either out of line-of-sight as it is, which the additional range of a GMRS radio won't help with, or something has already gone pretty wrong with your hike.

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Druidpeak's picture
Location: The woods.

Guessing he's in the 11-12 y/o range, so he's got some growing to do yet. Hit up some 2nd hand sporting goods stores.

Good to hear that you've been instructed on the "Cotton = Death" phenomenon. Had to let our intern from South Carolina know about that one last summer. "Cotton's only king in the south"

Footwear: I am still a big fan of full leather hikers, when maintained correctly they'll last for many miles. I'm also not averse to using Tennis Shoes as hikers either, but when it's raining and/or muddy I prefer staying dry for longer with boots to just being wet all day in Tennis Shoes. The big mistake I saw when working with Teenagers in Yellowstone was that when instructed to bring boots for the summer, many would show up with 8" steel toe work boots. Good for some of the work we would do, but not good for hiking to and from those work projects. What I wear now, fyi. But, dropping $200+ on a set of boots that may not fit next year probably isn't the most cost efficient option. His size should be under the all popular 9.5 to 11.5 size range, and many boot/shoe stores have a rack with clearance items that never have items in my 10.5 but would probably have something in his size.

Edit to add: Sandals. A nice set of sandles will save many a stream crossing. My feet are extremely tender, which gets compounded by cold water, and if I don't have sandals it's a misery. More than once I've been the only person in the party to have sandles with them, and they end up being tossed across the stream and used by everyone to get across.

Wool socks/wool socks/wool socks. Get them, use them, love them. They may be wet, but they'll be warm. I used very plain jane Fox Creek brand socks for years, and they did well, but I've gone somewhat yuppity and have been enjoying fancy smancy Smartwools for the past few. Synthetic socks(I have lots of leftover brown Thorlo's that were part of my uniform) work well, but never has there been a stench mightier than that created by wearing synthetic socks. My wife has banned me from wearing them within 24 hours of being at home.

Backpack: Internal frame backpacks are what all the cool kids use for backpacking these days, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't look at external frame packs. If you're looking to make this a big purchase(something to last 5+ years), get a pack that can be adjusted extensively to fit. My Cabelas branded external frame pack I received when I was a 14 y/o, I continue to use to this day for packing out large loads.

Internal or External? Other gear will dictate this somewhat. If the sleeping bag is too large to fit inside the internal frame, then why have an internal frame? The idea of the internal frame is to keep the load tight and constricted. Less stuff flopping around = less weight shifting on the shoulders and hips and less fatigue. The external frame is nice because you can be very creative with it in finding tons of different ways to strap a load to it. It's old fashioned, but still effective. I'm a internal frame user predominately myself.

For day hikes you don't have to go all out and find something with hip straps and the whole nine yards. I prefer those styles of packs myself, but have worked with others who really enjoy simple packs, akin to an everyday book-bag, like the North Face Recon.

Tent: A 4 person tent is going to be a larger tent when it comes to backpacking. In these situations I would have my students split up the tent; one carries the tent itself, another the poles, another the rain fly, and someone gets the stakes. A 2 person tent is more along the lines of something someone might carry by themselves.

You'll receive some seam sealer with the tent. Make sure you set it up, and brush that stuff on the seams of the lower portion of the tent, and all the seams on the fly. This will hopefully create many nights of dry sleeping.

Also, if he's anything like I was at that age, he'll want to have the thing set up in the lawn for most of the summer. UV damage from unnecessary use will horribly shorten the life of what can be another long-term gear investment. The same goes for putting a tent away wet, and never drying it.

Clothing: Already mentioned the wool socks. Synthetic is the best way to go for everything else. I usually will layer, depending on the season of course, a short sleeve shirt on the bottom, then a long sleeve, then a fleece jacket, and finally a waterproof shell of some sort. Add and remove items as needed.

Let me just add, I'm in the mindset of what I use these days. Wearing cotton isn't going to be the end of the world, I know I did when I was a scout, but just be careful for the chillier/wetter camp-outs.

Sleeping bag: Others have hit it on the head with the ThermaRest for a sleeping pad, I love mine and wouldn't leave home without it. For a sleeping bag, I'd look for a Synthetic 5 to 15 degree bag. My 5 degree bag from those years of my life served me well through many seasons. If it wasn't a youngster, I'd be spouting off about the wonders of a nice Down bag right now, but I wouldn't trust myself with one at that age.

Tips: Quick afternoon activity. Roll up a bunch of Duct-tape around his waterbottle. This keeps a good supply of Duct-tape on hand, by being on an item that you'll always have around. Now you don't have carry around a whole roll.

Robear's suggestion of p-cord is spot on. Can never have enough of the stuff laying around.

Trekking poles. these were never "in" when I was a youngster, but they have worked well for me in the present. Especially when I'm packing a larger load.

Stuff sacks. I'm no organizing, or neat freak but I've hiked/worked with those who are. I'm always a bit envious of my friends who keep everything organized nicely in their little stuff sacks.

Getting "hot spots"(sore spots in your feet from rubbing)? Don't tough it out, put some moleskin or duct tape on it before it turns into a blister.

While my scouting experience was more Camps/Campouts than actual backpacking, it's an excellent time to start in on what can be a lifelong and rewarding hobby.

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Bear's picture
Location: Syracuse, NY

NSMike wrote:
You could skip GMRS entirely and use FRS. FRS radios have a pretty nice range and don't require a license. The high-end of the range for an FRS radio is 2 miles. Generally GMRS is 5-7 miles. If you are really getting separated enough from someone that a 2-mile range is necessary, you're either out of line-of-sight as it is, which the additional range of a GMRS radio won't help with, or something has already gone pretty wrong with your hike.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that he's 11 and we'll be camping with a boy scout troop not filming episodes of Man vs. Wild or Survivorman!

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KingGorilla's picture
Location: Detroit

You do not have to go too high tech for much of this. Good old fashioned wool is great for cooler weather-wool socks, sweaters.

On the higher tech side, I am a big fan of Under Armor. It is a bit pricy, but well worth it for their cold weather gear. I wear it while riding a motorcycle on those sub 30 degree mornings, and life is good, even on the freeway.

Not sure what the shopping is like near you. Here in Michigan we have plenty of stores and outlets for outdoor gear. But you can do a lot worse than looking at Cabelas, LL Bean, and Bass Pro.

All three will also have great in season or out of season specials. If you have a Bass Pro or Cabellas in your state(be prepared to drive to the boonies), you can save a bundle on used or clearance equipment like tents and other gear.

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Paleocon's picture
Location: Columbia, MD

The whole archane fire starter debate is actually pretty boring to me. I find that the best fire starter I've ever had in my backpack was one I picked up at the local 7-11:

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Druidpeak's picture
Location: The woods.

Paleocon wrote:
The whole archane fire starter debate is actually pretty boring to me. I find that the best fire starter I've ever had in my backpack was one I picked up at the local 7-11:

hehe. I agree.

A fellow I worked with who had spent a fair amount of time in Katmai NP in Alaska talked about this. He wondered why all the extra fluff for a firestarter. He just kept 2 bic lighters in his survival vest whenever he flew. Throw in some birthday candles, and you're set for good.

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