That mangling of "Dunedin" was brilliant! For future reference, it's pronounced Dun Eden. You may remember it from such stories as "The Call of Cthulu".

Kinda surprised there was a listener from there, it's a pretty small place. Like many people who grew up there, I got out as fast as humanly possible.

Very painful to hear them talk about Bioshock 2!
Such a nice game and so much trash talk.

BTW anyone seen the AvP scores?!?!? GwJ'ers save your breath on a great game like Bioshock 2 and use it for AvP a real turd of a game...

I find it interesting that Rob and Shawn seemed to be a lot harder on Bioshock 2 than Dante's Inferno. I personally thought that Bioshock 2 was extremely well done. It can't be easy trying to follow up such an iconic game, and if you take it on its own, it's amazing.

It's just more audio logs from before the first game

I agree Rob the Civ4 music is one of my favorite!

I wonder if anyone will get all six songs I chose. I know two of them will be very hard for console only gamers.

Still making my way through the episode, but I thought I'd chime in real quick after hearing the discussion about Secret of Mana.

As mentioned on the podcast, you can grab it on the Virtual Console for 800 Wii Points and I agree that it's absolutely worth checking out. It has a number of niggling issues -- the core combat mechanics are a bit clunky, there are localization compromises and technical issues throughout the game (due in part to the late format change during the game's development) and the multiplayer capabilities are actually a bit limited (since you actually have to play a couple of hours into the game before you're allowed to control multiple characters) -- but there is something about that game that manages to shine beyond all of that somehow. It's truly unique, which is a point that Jeremy Parish really nailed when he wrote about the game a while back.

And I think Certis is absolutely correct in calling out the lackluster lineage of the Mana series. As Squaresoft, they neglected to bring Seiken Densetsu 3 -- which some would argue is actually the best game in the series -- over to North America; as Square-Enix, they ran the series straight into the ground through a seemingly endless spew of sequels in the mid-00's, all of which lacked the same charm as the original.

I think BioShock 2's big problem is that first impressions are huge in gaming...and it already has an uphill battle on that front, since it has to "earn" its right to exist with players that have clearly -- and perhaps rigidly -- defined their opinions on the setting from their experiences in the first game.

I was holding off on my buy/no-buy decision for BioShock 2 until I heard the podcast and based on what I heard I'll be giving this one a pass. Even BioShock 1 didn't give me a nice buzz when I played through it a second time.

And hearing the Civ 4 music reminded me of when I played through the tutorial and actually said angrily to my monitor, "Yes, thank you Sid, I think I got it now!"

As one of the (apparently) few people who couldn't stand Bioshock, I'm actually eagerly awaiting my opportunity to play the sequel. It just looks like it would be more fun for me. Unfortunately, I haven't heard opinions of the sequel from anyone who doesn't already worship at the altar of the original.

I'll be revising my opinion a bit now that I'm close to the end. I think Pyro has the right of it. I'm surprised Rob finished it and maintained the story was crap and the gameplay "mediocre" all the way through. It's really gone from "pretty good" to "awesome" over the final four hour span.

Interesting. It sounds like they decided to take the opposite approach of the original game, which blows its load of awesome a bit prematurely.

I really had no desire for this game to be made, and I'm still not sold on it, but I'm finding my resolve to avoid it wavering.

A story that goes from not so great to pretty interesting in the end does not make a good story. If you were reading a book would have you suffered through the first 2/3rds of a not so great book in the hopes it got better in the end? Probably not. With video games though the most important thing is fun game play, which Bioshock 2 had a good amount of. Like I said on the show, it's not a horrible game, it's just not great. Bioshock 2 just did not live up to the first games standards.

I am not saying Bioshock didn't have it's faults, it certainly did, but I was hooked almost from the get go. Each level was interesting to explore. The game play was interesting and new. The game was great at building up tension before each major battle. I was freaked out constantly by the game, and the story was great.

Compare that to the sequel. I never felt scared in Bioshock 2, the levels were mundane in comparison to the first, the game play was no longer new and interesting but expected. the story was repetitive and not very interesting until you get near the end. They completely missed opportunities to do some really cool underwater game play and the one time they change things up and really got me interested in what was going on, it was over all too soon.

So there you have it. For me Bioshock 2 was disappointing but not bad, and I could have lived without the sequel.

I think it's impossible to come to Bioshock2 without the baggage of Bioshock, if you played the first game. They could have done more to deal with this, design-wise. For one thing, I think they really dropped the ball with the opening of B2. I felt like I was just dropped in the middle of the game, given a pat on the ass and a "let's get going then." They should have taken the time to create a more in-depth introduction to your character and situation, similar in scope to B1, so that you feel like you're (re-)discovering where you are and what you're doing.

Really? I just about peed myself with fear when the whistle-trill of the Big Sister started up the second time — after I'd learned how many ways she could kick my ass the first time around.

And I disagree about the underwater disappointment. I've been relieved every time I get a few minutes to catch my breath in the water, knowing that nothing was going to be coming after me for a few minutes.

Yeah, I wasn't sure whether to mention it in my post or not...but yeah, it's certainly worth seeking out the translation if you're willing to play it on an emulator. If the availability of the product is important to that kind of decision for you, keep in mind that it's not available on the Wii Virtual Console or any other "formal" distribution outlet.

Hey, at least Bioshock 2 hasn't yet filled time with useless fetch quest after useless fetch quest. I was ready to give up on Bioshock just before the big reveal. It came within 20 minutes of completely losing my interest just before throwing out one of the better narrative moments that video games have managed. But even with all that, the last act is a slog.

I don't think it's realistic to expect a "2" game to have the same sense of fresh wonderment that the first one did. By its nature it has to refine and expand what went on in the original. If you try to completely change it up and recapture the sense of new, you are doomed to fail.

I think the weakest aspect of Bioshock 2 so far is that the environmental combat tactics seem harder to set up, or maybe I'm just dumber. I find myself getting into too many straight up combat situations which I tend to lose.