New Car and Neighbor issues *long post*
My wife just bought her first brand new car ever. 2009 Honda Civic with all the bells and whistles. (My personal favorite part is the USB jack for MP3s. She has had in for less than a month. Last Wednesday I took it to get its insurance photos and due to Murphys law or whatever it had its first accident two days later.
Before I get into the story, I want to state no one was hurt.
My wife and I do not live together yet due to financial issues and my just starting a new career. We were married in April (That is another post I have yet to make) and live at our respective parents houses for the time being. I do not like the neighborhood she lives in very much. The whole area is converted summer cottages that are right on top of one another. All the neighbors all have fire pits and are up drinking and burning well into the night most every night. Most of them are not responsible pet owners, they let their dogs wander or tie them up on the side of the road so they can sit in the middle of the street. I think my wife's mother is one of the few in the area that has the dogs fenced in and are well taken care of.
Friday last week my wife calls me at work, one of the kids from across the street crashed his bike into her brand new car that was parked in the driveway. Apparently the child jumped off the bike and let it slam into the front of the car. There are about five or six children from that house that play in the street all the time. All are very young the oldest of which must be only 8. The mother was not watching them when it happened and rarely do I see her doing so.
My wife went outside and made sure the kid was OK she found him untangling the bike from under the front of the car. There where a few deep scratches in the bumper and hood of the car. she called the police just to make sure the indecent was filed correctly and everything was documented for her insurance. The mother of the child came out and my wife explained what had happened and why she got the police involved. The police suggested that the neibors house insure should help in covering the damage. The mother was very polite and my wife was comfortable with how the situation was resolved.
Later that evening the father came home and was pissed. He claimed that there is no way the bike could have made the scratch on the hood and he had five witnesses (all children under 8) that state the bike never touched the hood of the car. He told my wife he was not going to go through his home owners insureance as the house was being rented to him by family. He did finally agree to pay after stating it could probably be buffed out for under $100.
Today I got an estimate from the company our insurance recommenced. It came to $730. Two of the scratches are pretty deep. We brought the paperwork to the neighbors when my wife got home from work. The mother answered the door. She looked at the price my wife explained that she new it was a lot and she was sure we could work something out. the copy was for them to keep and look over to figure out how they wanted to handle it. We where about to leave when the father came out looked at the paper and started yelling about how ridiculous this was. He started yelling at us about the the amount of labor time was on the estimate, my wife explained that we did not make up the figure and he could contact the company and haggle if he wanted to. He then started yelling again at my wife about the scratch on the hood and his "five witnesses" that said it did not happen.
I was pissed and probably shouldn't have but I yelled back. I took the car two days before to get the insurance photos, the car has less than 400 miles on it. He went off about how all cars get scratches and he was not making a big deal about every ding on his truck. By the end of the encounter, my wife was in tears, she had worked so had and saved so much to afford a nice car. The mother followed us as we walked away and tried to diffuse the situation some, she was much more level headed than the husband was. Later we heard the husband yelling at her over it.
Now we just have to wait to see how they want to handle it. The whole situation has got both of us really worked up.
Sorry to hear about the drama. That's a lot of unnecessary bullsh*t for such a minor incident. Kids make mistakes and the father needs to admit that his child accidentally damaged the car and pay for it. Maybe you guys could come to some sort of middle point - say $400 or so just to get it over with.
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1. His kids aren't witnesses. Their testimony is not legally reliable, given the ease of which they can be manipulated to say just about anything.
2. Whether he has renter's/HO's insurance isn't your problem. They're responsible for their children, and the damage they do. You're being incredibly nice by not demanding they pay the whole thing (like I would).
3. Next time make sure the police inspect the bike for paint that was taken from the car upon impact, if it wasn't done on this occasion. There's very little in the way of arguing when it comes to that kind of evidence.
4. If you think you'll get any money out of them, sue 'em (or at least threaten it). The only problem here is that it sounds like they will try anything in their power to weasel out of it. Otherwise, if you have full coverage, you may be able to get your insurance company to pay for the repairs, and then go after the family for reimbursement. Let them deal with that headache if you can.
5. Always get three estimates. Harder to argue the validity of the high price when three shops are all around the same ballpark.
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Let me check my crystal ball. I see a small claims court in your future.
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You are being more than fair and I'm afraid that husband will use that to his advantage. The insurance companies estimates are usually higher but not by great amounts. I wouldn't go any lower than $600. This would fall under comprehensive coverage if you have it.
I say let try to call your bluff. Tell him that it's in his interest to settle this or else your insurance and their legal team will make sure he pays every penny they deem owned to them.
"Few have the courage of their convictions. Fewer still have the courage for an attack on their convictions." - Nietzsche
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First bad sign, he has 5 kids.
Looks like you might have a WT or their respective equivalent problem.
pretend boogle wrote:
drdoak wrote:
The neighbor factor makes this more complicated, but over the years I have learned to never deal directly with the other party to keep it from affecting their insurance. The other party always agrees to pay for the damage, and the other party always starts arguing about it when the estimate comes in. In the end, the matter will have to go to your insurance, and they will pursue it.
This presents a couple of problems -- your insurance rates may go up (now that they know about the nature of the neighborhood) and your wife has to live in the same neighborhood as the other party (at least for a while). Still, I wouldn't even waste time with, "give me the estimate and I'll pay for it."
Edit: Oh, and sorry to hear about the situation. I know how frustrating it can be when a brand new car gets messed up -- you want that "new car" period to last as long as possible.
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Some people don't realize how expensive professional body work can be. If they have to do work on both the hood and the bumper I am not surprised it is in the $700+ dollar range.
Also, did I mention VYPER DRIVE!!!?
I hear GM has a lot of brand new SUVs sitting around that don't crumple up when a kid's bicycle hits them, if you're interested...
I'm sorry, man. I've had my share of bad neighbour experience, I feel your pain. One thing I would advise:
do NOT try to negotiate. The fact the father did not try to reason with you but immediately threw a fit says enough. In my experience he will just take your willingness to come to a middle ground as a sign of weakness. In his mind he shouldn't have to pay a dime as the kids did nothing wrong. A compromise would seem like you "admit" you were wrong and "are crawling back".
Focus on the mother. At least she's acting like an adult in all this, things would be much worse if they both suffered from the "everyone is out to get us so it's ok if we do everything to screw others"-syndrome and reinforced their little bubble of self-righteousness (sorry, personal trauma seeping through here
). Be very friendly to the mother, empathise (it has to be very hard on her to be torn between doing the right thing and the person she loves), keep her on your side. She could be your lifeline.
Lots of luck and courage!
Roo wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:
Irony. I just got in at work, but when I left my place this morning, there were pieces of paper stuck under everybody's windshield wiper. I thought "They must be paving the street today", but no.. somebody's car was hit, and the person wrote a pissed-off letter and left it on everybody's car telling them to "turn themselves in". Good luck with that one, especially when the tone of the letter is negative, and the person writing the notes used "U" and "2" instead of "You" and "to".
If you go in sh*tting, all you get is nothing. I'm surprised you had the patience to deal with these people, but as mad and pissed as he is, he's probably infuriated that his money has to pay for his kid's mistake.
This is not posted for guilt, but if he yelled at the mother like that, imagine the beating the kid will get?
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Thanks for all the advice. We will discuss our options after work today. Hopefully the mother will be rational call the repair place and work out a payment plan with them.
If not I am sure I will be bringing the car to get more estimates tomorrow.
I was not there with the police so I don't know If the bike was checked at all.
Sorry to hear about all this. I have also lived in the ghetto in my life and can certainly identify with the issues one has to deal with when one lives around sociopathic neighbors. I'm actually with Purevil on this one. Claim it on your insurance and give them all the details they need to make your neighbor's life a living hell.
No need to waste a karma debt dealing with an idiot like him.
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Sorry to hear about this dude. I had a similar but different situation a few years back. Someone rear ended one of my old cars and the force of impact broke the driver's seat frame so I couldn't safely drive. They wanted to deal with it privately to avoid insurance hike but when the guy's wife got the bill, she flipped out at me. This was after I tried to be nice by sourcing a used part that was 60% cheaper because I knew they didn't have a lot of money. I offered to let them get their own estimate and her response was to try to say there's no way the accident could have broke the seat and that I was trying to scam them for a pre-existing problem. After I tried to be nice and they made it difficult, I just became a cold bastard and told them this was final, it was their fault and that if they didn't pay up, my next call would be to the insurance company. They paid me.
That's what I would suggest here. I applaud you for trying to handle it diplomatically but if you're getting hostility as a response, f*ck him. The wife seems to be trying to be nice about it but based on your story, she clearly isn't the main point of influence on their end. This is their fault, plain and simple and regardless of what the husband thinks, he isn't in a position to be dictating terms here. His kids don't count as witnesses and the fact that you wife saw the rid removing his bike from the car is all the proof you need. If he decided to flip his lid and made your wife cry, I think the gloves are off. I would tell him plainly that you expect full payment from him or you will involve both the police and insurance companies which will only make things much worse for him. He's trying to use bullying tactics to get you to back down and shift the blame to you. If you need to talk to him again, my suggestion would be to do so with a voice recorder in your pocket so that if he flips out or tries to make a threat, you've got it as evidence.
That said, I tend to push back hard against morons like these. Others have suggested just bypassing him altogether and going for your insurance which may work as well. My experience has just been that a little resistance to people like this often results in them caving when they learn that can't push you around.
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The husband told my wife tonight that he wants me to get a quote from MAACO. He already made us an appointment for next Monday morning and wants to be there for it.
pretend boogle wrote:
drdoak wrote:
When I was a kid my brothers went to a neighbours house and decided the boat in his garage needed a new coat of paint...
Man kids can be dumb sometimes.
Also close your garage when there is kids in the neighbourhood.
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At least in New York, you need two estimates to prove damages in a small claims case.
That said, I'd just put it through insurance. You never want to invite neighbor issues.
I deal with clients that have neighbor issues, and they always ask me, "How do these things end?" I look at them with a straight face and say, "Someone moves."
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MAACO does crap work. It isn't remotely worth even the small amount they charge.
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I couldn't agree more. MAACO is that cheap for a reason. If you value the resale value of your car, you shouldn't bring it there. This is not the husband's position to dictate. He's been given a quote, he should either pay it or be prepared to go to the next level. I absolutely wouldn't show for that appointment.
Staats wrote:
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If I were in this situation, I'd assume he knows someone at the MAACO that will low-ball the estimate, and then do sh*t work that will hold up just long enough so you can't sue him, or file a claim against him. Either that, or so he can have a partner to help bully you into letting them off without paying for it. I wouldn't trust it at all, and I'd tell him so. You're the victims here. The only thing he should be choosing is how to pay for it.
Now, I've seen some insurance companies not accept a quote from one place or another, and they'll give you a number of places to go to get an estimate for them, but even if that were to happen, the husband shouldn't have any involvement in the matter.
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Oh, apparently he called the place we got the estimate from and was so rude to the owner that they hung up on him.
Get a couple estimates from the most expensive places around. He deserves it. That's right. I hate people like your neighbor.
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This first.
This second. Wash your hands of this bag of trash, let your insurance company deal with it. Take your vehicle to the most expensive, reputable bodyshops in town that your insurance works with(Some agencies have preferred shops), then let your insurance wring his ass out to dry.
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This.
Situations like this are precisely the reason you pay insurance companies. Get your claim started and let them recover the money from your neighbor. Good thing you got the police report.
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Our worry with the insureance is we don't want to have the pay the $300 deducible and have the insureance rate go up just because this guy is an asshole.
Trust me, the $300 deductible is money well spent. You really don't want to invite this bastard into your life even if it costs you $3000. Imagine him as a man covered in petrol soaked rags smoking a cigarette. You really want the professionals to deal with him.
As for the rates going up, have a discussion with your agent and ask him if this is likely to affect you. You are clearly not at fault here and it isn't like this is statistically more likely to happen to you than it is to just about anyone else since it is not dependent on your behavior. I suspect the impact will be minimal.
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Comprehensive claims do not increase your rate, at least in my experience. I agree, pay the $300 and let the insurance take care of it.
"Few have the courage of their convictions. Fewer still have the courage for an attack on their convictions." - Nietzsche
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You should really also investigate getting rid of any kind of deductible on your comprehensive coverage, too. I did it with my latest new car purchase about a month ago, and it only added about $50 a year to my total bill. Now, maybe that will cost you more in the long run, but I'm of the opinion that paying a little more on an expected bill is a lot easier than having to pay up-front for an unexpected incident.
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Same here. I hit a deer in my focus last november (or, to be perfectly honest.. the deer jumped onto my freakin car) and my insurance didn't go up a dime.
Also this.
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In situations like these, you already filed a police report. Right now I would say let your insurance deal with theirs. Anyone trying to skirt that is either uninsured or just plain shady. If need be your insurance will cover the cost then go after the neighbor for the money. It is basically what you pay them for. Their legal team will get paid either from your neighbors or their insurance. There was never really any need for you or your wife to get personally involved with near strangers.
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