Come fellow Goodjers trampled by the economy, we must chat

OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

I thought I'd start a thread for everyone who has been directly affected by the current economic state.
Yesterday at the end of the day my boss comes into my office and sits in my extra chair. He puts his hands over his head and sighs as he leans back; he is obviously preparing for an uncomfortable conversation. He then proceeds to tell me that I am receiving a 10% pay cut instead of the 20 percent raise I was supposed to get next month. Everyone at my company received a pay cut yesterday.
Here is the backstory:
I work in the construction field, and have for my entire life. I worked my way up with this company since I was 16 years old. I started out as the shop "gopher" running tools from job to job. Then I when I was 18 I was placed in the field. The construction industry was booming back in those days and there was copious amounts of overtime to be had. I made a lot of money back in those days. I was promoted to foreman and given a $7/ hour raise. Life was good. I was making money hand over fist. I had a brand new truck and very respectable living situation. From this point the construction industry took a rather large dip. I was laid off in November of 2007 (enter World of Warcraft). Luckily a friend of mine offered me a job to plow snow and landscape with him for the summer until things picked back up at my place of employment.

I was confronted last August by my old employer and asked if I wanted to move into the office and get on the less back breaking side of the industry. I was informed that I would take a $20k/ year pay cut, from my last pay rate I was at in the field, until I was fully trained in and was a genuine asset to the company, and from that point the sky was the limit.
/backstory
I have been here almost nine years and have seen the good and bad side of this industry. I have made a lot of money on the upswing and lost it all on the downward spiral. I am at very little risk for being laid off, fortunately, because of the necessity of my position and my longterm relationship with the company. I have tried to bust my @$$ the American Way for the better part of my working life. I have succeed and failed all at once. It is quite disheartening to say the least.

Here is the story of how the economy has changed my life. Apparently picking yourself up by the bootstraps won't even work these days.
Share your gripes here, and lets find a scapegoat for this mess. Once we determine who or what it is it will be time to get out your pitchforks and lanterns, and start an angry mob.

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Unprncbl
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Duoae's picture

I've not had a job for a while now but i'm over-educated so i can no longer do the low level jobs i used to (phone support, customer service etc.) because they assume i'd leave them in a heartbeat so won't hire me. On the flip side i can't get a job in industry because i have little to no experience in industrial labs and anywhere that's hiring has a good pool of experienced unemployed people to pick from..... i also can't go back into academia because my field is so narrow that i'm struggling to find anywhere that's researching in or around my particular field.

Not sure what to do as i'm currently signed on welfare/dole/jobseekers allowance and they give advice on getting jobs... only it's not working. I only know that if i hadn't been lucky enough to have been living at my parents i would be in real trouble. I don't have any money besides basic amounts to live on but luckily i'd gotten myself out of 'proper' debt before i got into this situation. I'm sure if i could just get an interview i'd be fine, the problem is getting past all the roadblocks to get to that point. I'm a bit worried about the effects of a stint of unemployment on my future career, not to mention pension etc. Mostly i've just been unlucky in that i've come into the market just as it was crashing.

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CrawlingChaos's picture

I've been out of work since the beginning of May. I'm receiving unemployment and we are benefiting from the 60% reduction in cost of COBRA benefits, so my family has medial coverage.

This is the first time, since I was the age of 16 that I've not had a job. Twenty years!

In the last 4 weeks, I've put about 30 resumes in play with various companies and to date I've not received a single call back.

Frankly, it is getting scary.

Oh crumbs, I'm all thumbs laying here with you. You're beautiful and busty and I'm a little rusty - I've forgotten what to do...

OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

Being laid off is very difficult. It was fine for me for the first few weeks, but after that I kinda had a meltdown. Just make sure you stay busy doing something. With no sense of accomplishment at the end of the day it can be very detrimental to one's psyche. When I was laid off I started playing WoW 20 hours a day. It was terrible. I tried cleaning the house and doing general house chores, but it just didn't fill the void for me. I didn't snap out of it until winter almost ended and a friend of mine forced me away from my PC and gave me stuff to do (IE help him with a bunch of chores he needed done). STAY BUSY!

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OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

Duoae wrote:
I've not had a job for a while now but i'm over-educated so i can no longer do the low level jobs i used to (phone support, customer service etc.) because they assume i'd leave them in a heartbeat so won't hire me. On the flip side i can't get a job in industry because i have little to no experience in industrial labs and anywhere that's hiring has a good pool of experienced unemployed people to pick from..... i also can't go back into academia because my field is so narrow that i'm struggling to find anywhere that's researching in or around my particular field.

Not sure what to do as i'm currently signed on welfare/dole/jobseekers allowance and they give advice on getting jobs... only it's not working. I only know that if i hadn't been lucky enough to have been living at my parents i would be in real trouble. I don't have any money besides basic amounts to live on but luckily i'd gotten myself out of 'proper' debt before i got into this situation. I'm sure if i could just get an interview i'd be fine, the problem is getting past all the roadblocks to get to that point. I'm a bit worried about the effects of a stint of unemployment on my future career, not to mention pension etc. Mostly i've just been unlucky in that i've come into the market just as it was crashing.

Have you ever though about dumbing down your resume and explaining why at your interview? I could see some employers respecting that. I can see a big corporate hiring system shunning it on the other hand too. What is your profession just out of curiosity?

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Bad Court Thingy
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IUMogg's picture
Location: Out there (and loving every minute of it)

I worked at a small general practice law firm for two years in a county that is one of the hardest hit by the economy. Hell, President Obama gave a speech there on the economy because the place is symbolic of the economic downturn. As a small firm, a lot of our business was walk-in business, people who need a divorce or needed a will, things like that. Well the business slowed and as the low man on the totem pole I was laid-off. I don't blame my employer, he had no choice. Plus I don't think that type of work is what I wanted to do long term.

I am hoping this gives me a chance to transition into a legal field I really want to work in, but it's tough to find opportunities. I also have limited mobility, since I'm only licensed in my state and have no desire to take another bar exam for a different state.

I'm lucky though because I have parents who are willing to support me while i look. I just fear I'm going to have to take a job I don't want for the time being. But I guess these days having any job is a blessing.

Audacious Arsonist
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Kannon's picture
Location: Back in the land of Corn and Cows

I got laid off beginning of this year, and ended up getting evicted, and escaping from Boise, back to Lincoln Nebraska. Luckily, my mom has been able to help me out, and after 6 months of having zero luck finding anything, I finally got a job. It might be kind of an iffy job, but it'll work.

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People are stupid. People driving cars are still stupid.

Unprncbl
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Duoae's picture

elewis17 wrote:

Have you ever though about dumbing down your resume and explaining why at your interview? I could see some employers respecting that. I can see a big corporate hiring system shunning it on the other hand too. What is your profession just out of curiosity?

The problem with that is that it would leave large, unexplained gaps in my employment history which i doubt would get employers interested. I don't really have a profession yet but i'll lay out my basic CV:

Customer service/Call centres/project work in temp summer jobs
Chemistry masters degree
PhD (still not received though should be this year) renewable engery/hydrogen storage
self employed (overlapping the postdoc) with a regional newspaper doing freelance picture editing
Postdoc materials science/hydrogen storage materials

Unfortunately, i'm not an engineer which drastically cuts my employment in the renewables sector as no one seems to be interested in storage of energy, just getting it. I have no industry experience in the pharma corps (though i might be in the process of scraping through into a foreign office of one of the firms). Once i get a little bit of experience i'll probably be home free... at least it'll tell me and prospective employers where i should be in my career.

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Dimmerswitch is makes users mad.

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Ganguro's picture
Location: Las Vegas

Im somewhat in a similar boat with Duoae.
Im glad to be working, but im stuck in customer service /call center hell.. I LOVE my current job, but I know I can do more. I majored in Aerospace Engineering and minored in motion graphics and authoring from a decent engineering school (go boilers). I recently had a coming to jesus talk with Ms Ganguro and we just dont make a lot of $$ combined to live comfortably. It sucks, but no one is hiring educated people these days for "educated people jobs". I was told by a few potential employers that I was too smart for the job. My last employer asked me "why do you want to work here..arent you good with computers or something?" right in the second interview.

I am really tempted to retreat into academia to hide from reality, but I'm scared of being further in debt and making even less money than I am now and back in the same situation in a few years if I did. I was always told " be smart, work hard, be honest and you'll be rewarded" but we don't live in that world anymore. I'm scared for my future.

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OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

Ganguro wrote:
I was always told " be smart, work hard, be honest and you'll be rewarded" but we don't live in that world anymore. I'm scared for my future.

I'm holding out on this one. I think that eventually this will be the way it works again. It will get better. It is just a matter of time. The economy fluctuates in cycles, always has and always will. Most of you had Econ 101 or Macreconomics- It is just the science of it. Don't lose hope my friends, and most of all don't stop trying.

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Gameraotaku's picture
Location: Woodland, CA

I was downsized from my "Workflow Coordinator" (shipping clerk/warehouse dispatcher) job back in September 2007. I have worked a few part time jobs since then but my last one ran out of hours in March 2009. I have been pulling unemployment off and on since I was laid off but my unemployment will run out at the end of this month. I may be able to file for an extension, I won't know until my current filing runs out. In two years of applying for full time work and sending resumes to anyone I can find I have received ONE call back, and all that got me was a phone interview that didn't pan out. Welcome to the Northern California job market. I can't even get an interview to work at Best Buy or CostCo.

The sad thing is that I don't need to make much money to pay the bills. My house and my car are paid for. I am married so we have been surviving on my wife's salary and my unemployment. The problem is that we want to have our first child and we can barely even afford to take care of ourselves and our 2 dogs.

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OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

My baby boy is due at the end of September. It is going to be tough to make ends meet with daycare and all. My better half is considering quitting her job to take care of my boy and possibly watching a few other children to even things out. The only problem is that with everyone being unemployed she isn't the only one with that idea. In home daycare is a dime a dozen around here these days. I have been looking for a second job for the last few weeks and have turned up dry. Not even the local Gamestops will hire me. I have sales experience anda little retail experience from my brief college run. It seems that employers are getting their choice of the cream of the crop right now.

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Office Linebacker
PKSebben's picture
Location: Big Apple Hinterlands

Next May, I will be a graduate from one of the best law schools in America. Even with a hefty scholarship, I will be well into six figures in debt. My school has traditionally placed 100% of its class into "Biglaw" or other similarly prestigious positions.

I am at the top of my class. I currently get paid an obscene amount of money as a summer associate at a major firm in midtown Manhattan. I place my chances of a permanent position at about 10%. Because of the structure of the Biglaw recruiting system and the bimodal salary structure, if I don't secure a job after this summer, I will likely be relegated for life to a salary that will not allow me to pay my student debt.

How scary is that?

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Goin' Commando
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Edwin's picture
Location: Miami, FL Seattle, WA

Duoae wrote:
I've not had a job for a while now but i'm over-educated so i can no longer do the low level jobs i used to (phone support, customer service etc.) because they assume i'd leave them in a heartbeat so won't hire me. On the flip side i can't get a job in industry because i have little to no experience in industrial labs and anywhere that's hiring has a good pool of experienced unemployed people to pick from..... i also can't go back into academia because my field is so narrow that i'm struggling to find anywhere that's researching in or around my particular field.

Not sure what to do as i'm currently signed on welfare/dole/jobseekers allowance and they give advice on getting jobs... only it's not working. I only know that if i hadn't been lucky enough to have been living at my parents i would be in real trouble. I don't have any money besides basic amounts to live on but luckily i'd gotten myself out of 'proper' debt before i got into this situation. I'm sure if i could just get an interview i'd be fine, the problem is getting past all the roadblocks to get to that point. I'm a bit worried about the effects of a stint of unemployment on my future career, not to mention pension etc. Mostly i've just been unlucky in that i've come into the market just as it was crashing.

Dumb down your resume for the lower jobs. Seriously. Omit your higher education stuff that is blocking you.

OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

Edwin wrote:
Duoae wrote:
I've not had a job for a while now but i'm over-educated so i can no longer do the low level jobs i used to (phone support, customer service etc.) because they assume i'd leave them in a heartbeat so won't hire me. On the flip side i can't get a job in industry because i have little to no experience in industrial labs and anywhere that's hiring has a good pool of experienced unemployed people to pick from..... i also can't go back into academia because my field is so narrow that i'm struggling to find anywhere that's researching in or around my particular field.

Not sure what to do as i'm currently signed on welfare/dole/jobseekers allowance and they give advice on getting jobs... only it's not working. I only know that if i hadn't been lucky enough to have been living at my parents i would be in real trouble. I don't have any money besides basic amounts to live on but luckily i'd gotten myself out of 'proper' debt before i got into this situation. I'm sure if i could just get an interview i'd be fine, the problem is getting past all the roadblocks to get to that point. I'm a bit worried about the effects of a stint of unemployment on my future career, not to mention pension etc. Mostly i've just been unlucky in that i've come into the market just as it was crashing.

Dumb down your resume for the lower jobs. Seriously. Omit your higher education stuff that is blocking you.

Filthy Skimmer!

I already mentioned that here:

elewis17 wrote:

Have you ever though about dumbing down your resume and explaining why at your interview? I could see some employers respecting that. I can see a big corporate hiring system shunning it on the other hand too. What is your profession just out of curiosity?

Edwin come on, it's not even a full page yet. No excuse...

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PandaEskimo's picture
Location: The Left

Best of luck to everyone. I don't know what else to say.

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Grenn's picture
Location: Sitting uncomfortably close to your girlfriend

I can barely afford my apartment as it is. I've made a deal with my landlord to continue living here month to month. Fell behind on my Nicor bills, but that should be ok as the landlord turn off our gas during the summer. My job is site based, so our salaries are based on contract. As such, I did not get a pay reduction or laid off. However, I did not get a bonus (that I was promised before the econ went in the sh*tter) and did not get a raise (also that was promised). I didn't really expect either, but I was counting on the additional income to help pay off my car, which is the real money pit. Its not as bad as it could be, I'll be the first to admit, but its still really tight. And I was really hoping to stop living paycheck to paycheck after I got this swanky job in the city. And with the econ in the sh*tter as it is, its hard to find part-time work on the weekends, too.

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Duoae's picture

elewis17 wrote:
Edwin wrote:

Dumb down your resume for the lower jobs. Seriously. Omit your higher education stuff that is blocking you.

Filthy Skimmer!

I already mentioned that here:

elewis17 wrote:

Have you ever though about dumbing down your resume and explaining why at your interview? I could see some employers respecting that. I can see a big corporate hiring system shunning it on the other hand too. What is your profession just out of curiosity?

Edwin come on, it's not even a full page yet. No excuse...

Yeah, i'm not sure how 8-9 years of blank will look to a potential employer.

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RedJen's picture
Location: NC (No comment)

Duoae wrote:
elewis17 wrote:
Edwin wrote:

Dumb down your resume for the lower jobs. Seriously. Omit your higher education stuff that is blocking you.

Filthy Skimmer!

I already mentioned that here:

elewis17 wrote:

Have you ever though about dumbing down your resume and explaining why at your interview? I could see some employers respecting that. I can see a big corporate hiring system shunning it on the other hand too. What is your profession just out of curiosity?

Edwin come on, it's not even a full page yet. No excuse...

Yeah, i'm not sure how 8-9 years of blank will look to a potential employer.


You can always list them as extended education and when asked either explain that you belatedly realized that wasn't what you wanted to do with the rest of your life. Or if that's total BS, tell them that you value the knowledge and experience that results from working your way through the entire process. Just try to keep your voice sincere and your nose clean when you say it.

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From A Certain Point of View
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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Stylez and I opened an on-site computer service company last May, just before the economy started to go south. I had been forced out of my job (but was debt free) and he left the one he had to do this. Canada has not been nearly as badly impacted as much of the world (mostly because our banks were smart) and since Ottawa is a huge government town, it is largely recession resistant. That said, we're still struggling and have been having more and more "doom and gloom discussions" lately. We spent over half our startup loan of $15,000 (lent from a non-profit group) on marketing initiatives (largely flyers) that a large group of people thought would work great and they utterly flopped. Our financial projections in our business plan were completely wrong and the company is only currently doing about 5% of the revenue we thought it would be at this point. Since then, we've been struggling to get customer growth using less expensive means like networking events. Every month is improving but not nearly fast enough.

Late last year, my girlfriend of several years and I split up. I had also accumulated a lot of debt again in order to subsidise my life with the company growing slowly. Stylez's fiance is away at school so he offered to let me stay with him and split the bills which has lowered our burdens somewhat. What we're able to pay ourselves currently puts us below the poverty line on paper but we're able to get by this way. In January, my car basically died (it became unsafe) and I had to replace it which required me to max out my line of credit and borrow a big chunk of money from my Mom. Stylez's fiance comes back home full time at the end of July and our agreement was that I move out at that time. I've been looking at apartments and found one that's both good and cheap (but Ottawa's rent standards) but unless things pick up big time, I will be about half living off of my tax refund and reserves when I move. That will only sustain me for 4-5 months and that's if I live off Mr. Noodle and don't drive too much. Stylez isn't in much better a position and he's also getting married in September. If I want an apartment for the time frame required, I have to sign for something in the next few days. We're currently evaluating various ways in which we can try to raise awareness of our brand in Ottawa and continuing to try and land a retailer partnership which was always key to our business plan but which hasn't worked out because our model for those partnerships is unproven. We're also going to be talking to some people next week about trying to get some more funding so that we can hire a communications/marketing consultant. If Stylez and I could keep going another year, the company's slow growth curve would eventually lead to sustainability. But we don't have a year, we maybe have a few months.

Some of this can be attributed to the economy and people holding onto their money more tightly. Some of what we do is necessary for people but it is also often considered a "luxury service." We've also just had a certain amount of bad luck and many of the promotional methods we tried that worked for everyone else just didn't for us. We've quickly learned that when you go to a networking event and 10 people say they're going to call you or refer you, maybe 1-2 will actually do it. When we started, we knew situations like the ones we are currently in weren't uncommon for new entrepreneurs. Still, it does at times get hard to keep your head up and not feel like you really made the wrong decision. I'll probably have to change careers if this business fails so that's a bit scary. We know our ideas are good and our practices sound, we just need more people to know that.

Staats wrote:

Parallax is both generous and wise.

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OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

Parallax- does an IT company have any fixed overhead, besides the minimal cost of web hosting?

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From A Certain Point of View
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Parallax Abstraction's picture
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Our overhead is basically our BlackBerries, VoIP service, eFax and our membership in BNI. We host our own e-mail and web site on a server in the basement. Beyond that, the only other expense is paying ourselves. I don't want to go too deep into our financial data (no offense, just a public forum is all) but the number of calls we need to do in a week to reach sustainability is ridiculously low. But we haven't even been able to hit that level with consistency. We have had months where we've beaten our targets, sometimes by quite a bit but that's not the case most months.

Staats wrote:

Parallax is both generous and wise.

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Consultant
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samfisher's picture
Location: Somewhere in London, UK

I am earning no money and the longer things go, the worse off I am getting due to the huge costs of being where I am and either of two things need to happen;

1) Huge rise in Wages which is not entirely out of the question considering how much time work expects to take from my own time for free, and the sheer amount of crap I've been doing which is outside of my job description, but then again they are making lots of money and canning people at the same time so can't count the chickens just yet

2) move back into a shared place, which was the cause of my misery earlier when living down in London, so really really don't want to do that.

Could find another job, but really really don't want to considering how terrible the job market is here right now, plus I actually do enjoy the work I get to do.

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OMGWTFBBQPWND
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ELewis17's picture
Location: Fouthy-six Putting on a newburberry

samfisher wrote:
but then again they are making lots of money and canning people at the same time so can't count the chickens just yet

I'm not sure about you, but I know I would never want to work for someone that is broke. A rich boss equals a steady job and typically fair wages- not to mention he usually buys the drinks after, work which is always a plus

Parallax- No need to go into deep detail. I found my fantastic IT company through Dell. I asked my Dell Sales Rep if he recommended anyone, and he pointed me to a company "partnered" with Dell locally in my area. I believe the companies employees just go to some Dell continuing education quarterly. Mike, my IT extrordinaire, said that they have landed many clients though their partnership with Dell. I do not know what kind of red tape there'd be, but it seems to have worked out in the long run for him. He's doing quite well considering the economy and all he has is his A+ Certification combined with some MS training.

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Silverback? Please, Goldback.
KingGorilla's picture
Location: Detroit

Not sure if this makes me feel better, or makes me want to start loading a gun but here goes.

This time last year I had just left my college after a botched attempt at a second degree, engineering. Which was an attempt to move my life in a new direction after a botched attempt at law school, a tale for another dayof woe and hardship. Depressed, broke, I ended up moving back home with my parents. Life was not great for them. For a couple of years I was signing away student loan checks so that their mortgage could get paid.

I spent maybe 2 months looking for a job and managed to find one. I spent a year in Milwaukee and only went to two interviews with no hiring. Because of the sh*t economy I get to be paid less than most interns would 5 years ago. Benefits are decent, but the pay is idiotic. If it were not for a near total hiring freeze, I may have moved on.

Currently my pay is almost exclusively going towards keeping my parents in their house. My dad is stuck working 4 day weeks, my mom is making half what she was 3 years ago even. I do not even have the cash to scrape together to get a car that I desparately need. TO make matters better. I bought a clunker motorcycle off of Craigslist and have ended up being out clost to 1500 bucks for payment and the repairs. I had some good fortune that my dad basically gave me his Harley because he felt so bad about the situation.

My silver lining is that I have managed to get into another law school, a better one. But I am sick of being broke. Sick of not even being able to pay for a lot of the things I need, let alone small luxuries. It can be humiliating to have to say no to friends when they want to go to a club because you don't have the cash to scrape together.

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Missy9579's picture

I don't have as gloomy a situation as many of you, but mine sucks to me. I work for the State of Connecticut, and our state has a huge economic crisis. Our Governor is trying to close the gap. I work in the Judicial division, and they are making us take unpaid furlough days. I have to take Thursday, Friday and Monday next week as unpaid days. They also raised what we pay for our health insurance. I went from paying $7.48 every other week, to now paying $28.00. It is not a huge amount of money, but it is a significant percentage jump. Also, our prescriptions went from $3/6 to $5/10.

I am considered per diem, even though I work 35 hours a week, every week. To be a perm state employee takes years, because then they have to pay you sick, vacation and holidays. So, every holiday I get no pay, every time I am sick, none. And every vacation I take, zip. The 10 days for the wedding I am taking off are all unpaid.

The union voted to do this to prevent layoffs. The perm employees are safe for 2 years from lay offs. Us per diems are subject to layoffs whenever.

So, I am thankful and lucky to have a job, but it almost seems like I need a second job to afford to work for the state. I know having my foot in the door is a good thing, and that hopefully someday I will be a perm employee. Until then, i am just crossing my fingers.

"I just hand my paycheck along with my testicles to my wife. It works out better that way". Paleocon is my hero.

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Coldstream's picture
Location: Denver, CO

Bloody hell. I suddenly feel really damned lucky to be in medicine and the military. My parents are struggling, but hopefully I'll be able to lend a hand if the economy is still crap in a couple of years. I sincerely hope that things work out for everyone in this forum.

dramarent wrote:
Because of the structure of the Biglaw recruiting system and the bimodal salary structure, if I don't secure a job after this summer, I will likely be relegated for life to a salary that will not allow me to pay my student debt.

Just a thought, but have you considered a stint in the JAG corps? I understand that it's fairly competitive to get into, but it could offer you an alternative should you not secure a job on the happy spike of that bimodal distribution.

Jonman wrote:

Now that I think about it, I've got a rubber leg at home - maybe I'll try this out on the wife.

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Quote:
Just a thought, but have you considered a stint in the JAG corps? I understand that it's fairly competitive to get into, but it could offer you an alternative should you not secure a job on the happy spike of that bimodal distribution.

The JAG core would not pay my loans, sadly. I simply could not afford to do it. Crazy, eh? Graduates from my school have never had a problem getting "market" pay. The problem is that there is no more market. Gone. An industry that founded this country is dead. The way that law firms have run for 100 years (lockstep pay + billable hour) is f*cking dead. I'm not forecasting here, I'm observing. I know to read a pulse and It's dead. Clients aren't paying the fees demanded by top flight legal firms anymore. There is only one thing that can go down --- and that's associate pay.

Those thinking about law school right now. Beware. The whole world is different. think about your dept / income possibility rations very carefully. Best of luck.

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dramarent wrote:
Quote:
Just a thought, but have you considered a stint in the JAG corps? I understand that it's fairly competitive to get into, but it could offer you an alternative should you not secure a job on the happy spike of that bimodal distribution.

The JAG core would not pay my loans, sadly. I simply could not afford to do it. Crazy, eh? Graduates from my school have never had a problem getting "market" pay. The problem is that there is no more market. Gone. An industry that founded this country is dead. The way that law firms have run for 100 years (lockstep pay + billable hour) is f*cking dead. I'm not forecasting here, I'm observing. I know to read a pulse and It's dead. Clients aren't paying the fees demanded by top flight legal firms anymore. There is only one thing that can go down --- and that's associate pay.

Those thinking about law school right now. Beware. The whole world is different. think about your dept / income possibility rations very carefully. Best of luck.

Actually, they'd pay a chunk of your loans, if not all. The catch is that you're giving up GI Bill.

Also, I'm extremely grateful that I've stayed in the service. I'm certainly not going to get rich doing what I'm doing, but I'm able to put a little away every month after bills are paid and food is bought.

Coldstream wrote:

Sands, S. & Murdoch, J.; New England Journal of Medicine. Why Guys Dig Chicks Who Violently Kill Stuff Nov, 2008; pp 65-68.

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It's just as bad down here in Australia. I was made redundant last July when my office was closed down, I still class myself as unemployed, but I do have my own side business as a Mobile computer tech. When I have work doing that the pay is pretty good, but like Parallax I don't get enough calls to make it long term sustainable. Luckily my fiancee has a decent paying secure job. My problem getting back into work is the same as Duoae's I've got on paper some great qualifications with Business degree's majoring in Management, unfortunately I haven't got the experience to back it, and employers won't look at me for the lower level jobs, I can't really dumb down my resume, and when I have tried to in the past once the employer asks the questions about what I've ommitted in the interview they come to the samme conclusion they would if I had left the stuff in the resume to begin with. On average every job advertised in my region at the moment gets 300+ applications, so yeah... considering 12 months ago I was in a position to be managing a small property office, then to watch the company fold because the umbrella corporation decided to "divest themselves of non performing assets" has been a bit disheartening.

NathanialG wrote:

I can only assume that when the antichrist arrives he will be left handed, Australian, and attempting to steal our womenfolk.

Strewth wrote:
Prozac is a man's man. Or clinically insane. It's hard to tell.

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Location: Reading, UK

I am only seventeen, so in some ways this topic is not as serious for me, and in some ways it really is. I moved with my mother and my younger brother to America in search of a better life after my parents had a particularly nasty divorce. I figured that moving to California would mean that we would have more opportunities to do well and get on early, so we could both achieve what we wanted to achieve. My mother never wanted to go back to the UK, but it is my home country and my moving was more opportunistic than final. This happened last year, and we bought our house almost exactly one month before the first serious downturn of the economy in October. My mother hadn't begun to look for jobs at the time, and has been frantically searching for some kind of marketing job or office job ever since but they just don't exist for someone that will be retiring in little more than ten years. The bank repossessed our house about two months ago without any of our knowledge (I only found out because my Dad showed me our house on a repossession "deals" listing on the internet, and my mother was only notified after the bank had sold the house).

I got a job through a program at school, working for a subsidiary of the Bar Association in San Francisco. I'm only getting a few hundred dollars for two months, but its really nice to have some cash in pocket (I lent my savings to my mother and am not expecting them back). My mother is going to move back to the South, where she grew up, most likely to Albuquerque because the rent is very very low (about $500 p/m for an okay house or good apartment compared to the WONDERFUL Bay - $2400 on a sh***y little apartment). Me and my brother are going to go back to England in the summer, where my Dad (with his secure, computer programmer job) can look after my brother and I can live with a friend and finish out school. My mother, of course, wants us to stay in America, mostly I think because she will feel like she has failed at moving back here if we leave - it'll look like my father "won", if you get my meaning. I don't want to leave in a way, because my mother is broke now - but I kind of have to if I want to not end up at Wal-Mart somewhere down the line.

So yeah, the economic crisis has basically ruined my family. Add to that that I am now joining the navy to pay my way through university - something I would never have considered before but I REALLY have no money and I want to go to a nice school, and their career options are kind of appealing in the face of all this - and I'd say I've been pretty darn trampled.

Ratboy wrote:

I liked it better when I thought she was speaking in tongues. Cute tongues, but tongues nonetheless.

Nosferatu wrote:

Guys! Quit trying to get VDO to play doctor with you!