WoW: 80's Gearing up and Theorycraft
Monday, April 27th, 2009 - 11:18am
There was some discussion on these subjects in the Night Shift raid threads, since that seems to be where us newer 80's congregate these days, and I thought it would be a good idea to avoid that kind of clogging on threads meant for something else.
So, being a new 80 myself, I'd love some tips, ideas, gearing suggestions, any help that some of the more experienced players can offer. I'm part of the GWJ BHA, but ideas are universal, so feel free to contribute and/or ask no matter what server or guild you hail from, or class and spec you play.
EDIT: Updated, because this thread doesn't necessarily apply to only new 80's anymore.



I know for Enhancement Shaman, there are a bunch of quest rewards heading up to 80 that I gathered because of the +hit (which is the most important stat to get capped before raiding). The Theraputic Cloak comes to mind from a quest in eastern Grizzly Hills. Once I had most of my hit, I chanted and gemmed what I could for the rest.
To my limited knowledge hit is the number one stat to cap for any dps, then expertise I believe for melee classes. I'm not much on planning my upgrades, as I just don't usually have the time to research (well, I suppose I do but I'd rather be playing.)
I have found that the most efficient way for me to see if and where upgrades are availible is to install AtlasLoot. I have the FuBar plugin for it, so it resides on the FuBar on the top of my screen. It's nice to check on rep rewards, craftables, and boss loot.
Torq - I can certainly see myself whipping it out for a quick solo on commutes though.
Someone mentioned getting some spiked titansteel stuff for me, a helm and boots I believe. My biggest problem is I have nothing to pay back with. My mining has been neglected for a long time, so it will be a while before I get that up to a useful level, a lot of time in the old world and BC. How would folks capable of making these like repayment?
Second is, I also need gems for sockets and the like. Same problem. Not sure what folks are looking for as payment.
Third is that generally, I don't think I'm doing the kind of DPS that I should be at this point. I checked around the internet in general for some ideas on skill rotation, but I don't think I'm doing anything out of the ordinary. I don't have *everything* that I should for gear so far, but I'm well geared enough that I expected to be more powerful by now. I can't think that the small amount of better gear I have yet to get is really limiting me as much as it seems to be. What is the general expected range of DPS for ret pallies? I'm getting tired of barely besting the tanks on DPS.
TempestBlayze wrote:
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goto http://elitistjerks.com/forums.php
Find your class listing and check out the threads there. Everyone i've checked has a thread that has a listing of all the suggested gear for starting out at 80
Gamer Tag: Rantyr
Well, in the other thread, I steered you a *little* wrong.
For raiding, you need ~262 Hit Rating(~8%) and you might want ~26 Expertise.
After that, gem for Strength except for meeting metagem requirements. I don't know if I can do the Bold Scarlet Ruby, but I can burn through a buttload of the green-level gems to try to proc a bunch of Perfect Bold Blood (whatever they're called) for you, which is not too far below the Rubies.
Other places to look for advice: Honorshammer's blog - he's a tankadin, but he did a nice pair of posts on building up a Ret set, one for low cost/questables and one for those with deep pockets and not afraid to shell out the dough. The Eye for an Eye blog is good, too(e4e.blogspot? I forget.) Actually, from either of those blogs, you should be able to find all the paladin blogs via their blogrolls.
Yes, EJ is a good resource, but can be intimidating and sometimes hard to read. The ret thread/guide is pretty good and easy to read, though.
I need to install recount and go whack on some dummies to see what my actual sustained dps is.
Steam: duckilama
T.Rex is more impressive than a cockroach, but that doesn't mean it aged better. - CheezePavillion
I'll get the ball rolling by reposting what I said over in the Night Shift thread for last week, when Mike was trying to weigh the value of saving for epic flight versus the costs of getting into raiding.
Just one other note: I really wish I had known to get trash greens and blues DE'd when I originally hit 60 (during BC, when 70 was the cap) and was starting to level through Outlands, so that's probably the thing I'd most like to share with anyone who is just now starting to level through Northrend with the eventual goal of raiding. Enchants are hugely important -- for a DPS character they can translate into hundreds of extra DPS if chosen properly, and I can only imagine that they are similarly important for tanks and healers.
Sure, you could just buy the mats (and now you can by enchant vellums), but especially when you are first gearing up you can burn through a LOT of gold if you are doing that, so to me it is far more valuable to have a bank full of the mats I will need each time I get an upgrade than to get piddly amounts of gold selling crappy BoE greens on the AH (or to vendors). And most of the time those greens are just being bought by enchanters anyway, who will be DEing them to sell the mats and enchant vellums back to you anyway, right?
zeroKFE on: XBL | Steam | WoW-BHA | PSN | Origin
1. Work out your talent spec and glyphs. Generally speaking, as a DPS class, every talent point spent should either improve your DPS output or be a prereq for a talent that does so. Same goes for glyphs. The build you used leveling is generally not an optimal raid build, so you should take time to make sure your spec/glyphs are contributing to your role in a raid. Elitistjerks is a good resource for this.
2. Max your tradeskills, especially gathering skills. Bringing your A-game to a raid means always having the appropriate consumables, which requires a significant amount of gold, and only increases the more nights a week you raid. Tradeskills provide a good source of income. This is especially true if you farm materials while doing daily quests. Example: As leatherworking/skinning I skin everything I come across while doing daily quests, and then convert to armor kits to sell on the AH. Tradeskills also give bonuses that will help you maximize your performance in raids.
3. Figure out the best heroic and reputation reward gear available and go get it. It may take a long time to see a specific drop in a raid, so you might as well maximize your stats via reputation and heroics. Heroics have the advantage of being available to run every day, so you have 7 shots to get a specific drop versus 1 shot per week in a raid. Elitistjerks is a good resource for this as well.
Steam: Landshrk83
XBL/PSN: Landshrk83
WoW: Actinide (Priest), Isoalpha (Rogue)
I know it seems like a major time sink (who am I kidding, it is), but if you spend an hour or two here and there working your mining up, you will find yourself glad that you did in the end. I suggest just following a guide (such as this one), as it will get you mining in the right places and show you good paths to follow to optimize your mining time. Also, get a "Gatherer" enchant on some crappy gloves -- it will help a lot, particularly when you are at those annoying transition points where one material becomes green to you (ie, doesn't guarantee a skill up) but you still can't mine the next material.
Good news and bad news time. First, the bad news. The worst section of the mining leveling progression is just ahead of you, which is thorium. That guide suggests the plaguelands or Winterspring, but I've had better luck in the Burning Steppes. Now the good news. It is fast and easy from that point on, especially given that you can fly in the Outlands and Northrend. And even for the slow parts, you should be able to get good money selling the stuff you mine up, since it's always in demand for people leveling Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing. Or you could save the mats to level Blacksmithing, which I see you also have. Getting that up to Northrend levels should also prove quite useful, since you will then be able to add extra gem slots to various pieces of your gear.
zeroKFE on: XBL | Steam | WoW-BHA | PSN | Origin
I can't speak for the others, but for me the only repayment I need is to see you sticking with the group and helping us conquer new and entertaining challenges.
By helping you, I'm helping us all!
"We are at our best when we work together. We are at our worst when we expend valuable and finite energy and resources destroying one another." - Paleocon, regarding humanity.
Agreed, if you need anything I can provide, I'm more than happy to do so. That probably means I'll only be able to send you leg armor kits, but if you can provide the frozen orb I usually stockpile the rest of the mats. Alternately I should always have the mats for the blue leg armor kits available and can send them your way if you need.
Steam: Landshrk83
XBL/PSN: Landshrk83
WoW: Actinide (Priest), Isoalpha (Rogue)
This is actually something else I've been meaning to ask. How should I prepare for a raid? I mean, so far, I've been bringing myself, with repaired armor.
TempestBlayze wrote:
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Flasks and buff food help a lot. For you I would guess that means Flask of Endless Rage and food that gives +40 Str. I can make most/all of the good buff foods. If you'd like to farm the mats let me know, I can turn it into food and send it along.
Beyond that it's a good idea to bring a few stacks of Runic Health Potions (or injectors) along to help out in a pinch, as well as haste pots if you really get into the progression content.
Steam: Landshrk83
XBL/PSN: Landshrk83
WoW: Actinide (Priest), Isoalpha (Rogue)
Our guild tradespeople are very kind and generous. Generally, if you have the mats and ask nicely, they will be happy to help you. I usually try to offer a tip or to help them in some other way, but generally the refuse, since getting people geared, enchanted, gemmed, flasked, etc is good for all of us.
If you don't have mats, either see if you can acquire them on the cheap, or ask around. Many of us also keep large banks of materials on hand as well, and similar to the crafters, gatherers are often just as happy to donate to a guildmate in need, especially for things we have surpluses of.
Also, in the specific case of titansteel, a given miner can only make one bar per day. A lot of times we don't use that cooldown anyway, though, so rather than buying titansteel on the AH, look for it's component materials and ask around for a miner who can help.
zeroKFE on: XBL | Steam | WoW-BHA | PSN | Origin
Generally, you want to bring along stat-boosting food appropriate for your class and role, as well as flasks or elixirs to also boost your stats. I recommend flasks, as they remain active for the full duration even through death, whereas elixirs disappear upon death. Sometimes I roll with elixirs since they're cheaper, but that's only on facerolling runs.
For 10-person runs, it also helps to stock up on some scrolls of whatever stats you most need. For me, I stock up scrolls of intellect and stamina. If I'm running without a mage, I use the Int scrolls. If I'm running with a mage but no priest, I use the stamina scrolls.
"We are at our best when we work together. We are at our worst when we expend valuable and finite energy and resources destroying one another." - Paleocon, regarding humanity.
it's typically appropriate raid etiquette to come "fully buffed" to a night of raiding. For DPS that means:
1) Flask (or potions). Flasks persist through death, and Endless rage (180 AP) is perfect for DPSers.
2) Food. The food buffs are VERY powerful in WotLK. Unless you have someone in your raid supplying Fish Feasts, grab a stack or two of Dragonfin Filet, and be happy you're not a hunter/druid.
3) enchants/gems. All your gear should be enchanted and gemmed appropriately, and if it's a piece you know you're going to toss away shortly, there's almost always cheaper alternatives that are almost as good. the "perfect" green gems are a good example, as are some cheaper enchants (50 AP to weapon vs berserking). Also there's a blue and an epic leg enchant. Finally, make sure you have the rep with the appropriate factions to grant you access to the good head enchant (ebon hold for DPS) and shoulder enchant (hodir or inscription).
4) reagents. I *think* blessings still require reagents, so have plenty on hand.
[edit] someone beat me to it.
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For specifics, I've got 4 titansteel bars I've been holding onto just in case you can use them Narayan (or anyone else), and think I should have a 5th after logging onto my miner today (although my last mining expedition was rather titanium poor, unfortunately).
I know a lot of folks don't get a lot of enjoyment out of the theorycrafting details, and elitistjerks is chock-full of that kind of stuff, but it's probably a good idea to at least hit up their main thread, either in the appropriate sub-forum of Class Mechanics or the proper thread in Theorycrafting Think Tank. In one or the other, you'll likely find a thread specific to your spec giving different talent ideas, gearing priorities, glyph recommendations, and details on how the rotations work.
To follow up on Duc's comment about hit and expertise, you generally want enough hit to reduce your miss chance by 8% if you're a physical dps class. The cap used to be 9%, but it appears Blizzard lowered it accidentally or not in BC. Since we usually have a Draenei along, you can actually get away with 7% if you want to try it, but then you'd be lacking when we're missing a Draenei. Spell hit is higher (13%? Can't recall exactly, don't play casters much). This basic amount of hit will ensure that specials (i.e. yellow attacks) and non-dual-wield attacks never miss. For melee classes other than rogues, enhancement shammys, fury warriors, and dual-wielding DKs, there's really no benefit to going beyond this. Dual wield reduces your chance to hit with white attacks, so they benefit from more hit, but they'll rarely cap white attacks since it reduces other itemization too much.
The expertise soft cap of 26 is based on the analysis that few bosses (if any) have a dodge chance greater than 6%. 26 expertise gives you 6.5% dodge removal. You'll still be parryable by most bosses, but that shouldn't matter because you're behind the boss, right?
Farming up the right foods is a huge advantage. I usually use Rhinolicious Wymrsteak (40 expertise), as I don't have much fishing (something I'm working on taking care of) to get to the 40 str/agi foods. It takes some time out of your schedule (I usually take an 60-90 minutes to farm up a few stacks worth every couple of weeks), but it makes a huge difference at raid time. Technically speaking, they're probably better in most situations than even a fish feast, as wonderful as those are, since they're more focused on what stats you need to be at your best. Flasks are also wonderful, especially on progression content due to persisting through death. We'll be dying a lot, so you'll go through a lot of scrolls/food.
The one topic that hasn't been discussed much, so I'll throw out some starting points, is general raid behavior. Obviously, this varies boss-by-boss, and the boss strategies trump anything mentioned here. There are some general good ideas, most of which are learned early: stand behind the mobs, if using single-target attacks make sure you're attacking the tank's primary threat target, if using AoE make sure the tank has had sufficient time to get basic AoE threat moves (Thunderclap & Shockwave for warriors, Consecrate for pallys, Death & Decay and Pestilence for DKs, think it's just the cleave move for druids), don't stand in stuff you shouldn't be standing in (a Blizzard favorite). Keep a side eye on Omen if you're running it. Tank positioning seems to have gotten more difficult (or so it seems to me, mobs just don't want to stay still initially), so be prepared to shift early in the fight. If you pull aggro, just let the tank(s) know and run towards a tank rather than running around randomly trying to avoid it (as I did in my very first 5-man...
).
Getting comfortable moving around with both the keyboard and mouse can be extremely helpful. I use both at various times, and even have strafe left/right bound to extra buttons on my mouse. I can shift fairly effortlessly between them at this point, which really helps me on fights like Heigan and Malygos where there's a lot of tank movement. Ulduar fights have a strong movement component to them, so the faster you can get from point A to point B safely, the better the raid will likely do.
I realize everyone may know some of this basic stuff, but after healing a 5-man pug on my shammy where a rogue insisted on continually standing in front of Ingvar for his cleaves even after warned not to, just thought I'd throw it out there.
For a specific upgrade, I'd say replace your libram with Libram of Furious Blows.
Low-level metal is actually a good source of money, so raising your gathering skill would be a double plus. Like others have said, EJ and some Blizz forum stickies have good info, e.g., there's a good Survival Hunter thread with a list of pre-raid loot in the Blizz hunter forums. You can gem your stuff with the cheap stuff if you're low on cash. WoWWiki has an okay list of gems by color and stat, as well as enchantments by slot.
This is an example of a great point, a theory I will randomly call "Murphy's law of WoW." This states that there is a 100% chance that every single player in WoW will do something miserably stupid, at least once, in their WoW careers, in front of at least 4 other strangers.
Be forgiving of people who make idiotic mistakes in pugs, especially if they attempt to change their behavior or are apologetic. No one's perfect, and someday that guy who causes the wipe will be you. =)
(I know, no one expected *me* to say that, did they?
)
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Psshhhttt. That happens nightly to me.
Valve wrote:
Speaking of mining ...
I'm leveling two miners (my warrior and paladin below) -- my pally is on the border of Mithril/Thorium, and my warrior will mine the hell out of some Fel Iron Ore when I finally get around to leveling him past 60.
You want Mithril (yellow at 200, green from 225 to 275). The obvious places are the Hinterlands and Tanaris -- Hinterlands is pretty efficient, but Tanaris is way too spread out, even on a fast mount. My favorite place is the Badlands, which is a short hop from Ironforge. You'll find Iron in the north part of the zone -- you should still get points from mining Iron -- and mithril in the southern part of the zone. Make sure to hit up the ogre cave in the far southwest part of the area.
Another easy spot to get to from Ironforge is the Alterac Mountains. I'm thinking of the two-cave ogre complex to the west of the yetis. Again, it's a mix of Iron and Mithril.
Mithril mining goes green at 225 (and stays green till 225). The problem: You can't mine Thorium till 245.
Honestly, I powered through. I was leveling two characters and mining everything I saw, and the points just came. I think I had some Truesilver Ore socked away, and that gave me points from 230 up. (Truesilver goes yellow at 235 and green at 242).
For Thorium Ore, I've had good luck in Un'Goro Crater and Silithus. Just run big figure 8s through both zones and you'll be up to your ears in both Mithril and Thorium. Remember that you can use the Dalaran portal to get to COT, and you can either ride or fly to the Crater and points west.
I'm guessing you'll be using your ore to level blacksmithing. If you have leftovers, make sure to sell not the bars but the ores -- metals (even the stuff you *can't* prospect) are much more valuable in their ore form.
Good luck!
BHA: Jorrn | Lil' I
I just levelled my DK's mining skill through that. I stuck with both Plagulands, because I can Death Gate to basically Light's Hope Temple whenever I want, which helped a lot. After you hit 300 (or 295 with the glove enchant) it is cake.
In fact, I have a pair of grey cloth gloves that I put the enchant on, so if you want them I'll gladly send them to you. Then they can be sent to anyone of any class to use after that. I think I only put the mining enchant on it though, maybe I'll throw the gatherer enchant which boosts mining, herbalism and something else on it first.
Torq - I can certainly see myself whipping it out for a quick solo on commutes though.
Bandages. Not much annoys me more than watching a group full of DPS ***stand*** around after being rezzed, waiting.
Waiting for what? Well, we'll wait for the healers to get full mana to rebuff everyone.
Then we wait for healers to get full mana *again* to heal everyone that doesn't have bandages or doesn't sit and eat.
And then we wait *again* for the healers to drink for full mana a third time so we can move to the next pull.
Bring bandages and at the *very* least, vendor-bought non-buff food. Any time you are less than full health and you see the healers drinking, eat or use a bandaid.
I don't know why that one torques me off so badly, but it does.I can't count the number of groups I've been in where folks just don't bother to use food/bandages instead of making the group wait longer so the healer can top them off and re-drink. Grr.
I can live with folks that don't have buff food - I know I've simply run out of time or forgotten to go fish up Dragonfins.
I can live with folks that are not flasked. Sometimes, you just forget or don't have the cash for mats or whatever.
It happens.
But everyone can buy food at the inn. Maybe pick up some spare water for your favorite mana-user while you're there. And swing by the reagent shop and make sure you're fully stocked on Symbols of Kings and DIvinity.
That said, I'm happy to cook up dragonfin angelfish for someone, as that's what I use, too.
Steam: duckilama
T.Rex is more impressive than a cockroach, but that doesn't mean it aged better. - CheezePavillion
NSMike, send me a tell in game and we can get you squared away as much as possible if you'd like. The info provided here is good, sometimes easier to talk through if you have a lot of questions.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/rybowl
I always try to eat and drink after a fight if I am low, but when I'm healing and I see little first aid crosses floating above someone's head after a fight, I read them as "Don't worry about me HEALER I've got it." It makes me feel like I haven't done my job.
Torq - I can certainly see myself whipping it out for a quick solo on commutes though.
Heh, I'm carrying over 100 heavy frostweave at the moment.
TempestBlayze wrote:
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I'd rather see a raid full of DPS bandaging themselves, then sitting to eat while the healers finish rezzes and buffs and mana up for the next trash pull, which Kam and I are probably inching forward towards to see who can get aggro first.
Steam: duckilama
T.Rex is more impressive than a cockroach, but that doesn't mean it aged better. - CheezePavillion
Torq - I can certainly see myself whipping it out for a quick solo on commutes though.
I learned the hard way that bubbling the main tank to keep them from dying is a bad thing
"We are at our best when we work together. We are at our worst when we expend valuable and finite energy and resources destroying one another." - Paleocon, regarding humanity.
hahaha..oh man we should start a thread of all the dumb things we've done in WoW. I could probably fill up a book. Best one recently was ruining an Undying attempt because I was too busy checking spacing on everyone around me to notice the void zone underneath me.
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Heck, I still remember the first time I ever saw Divine Intervention in action. Duc DI'd me on a Blood Furnace run, but I didn't realize what was going on, and I started freaking out because I couldn't move or cast or anything and everybody started dying.
That was hilarious.
"We are at our best when we work together. We are at our worst when we expend valuable and finite energy and resources destroying one another." - Paleocon, regarding humanity.
I think I remember a thread of OMG! Oops and other priceless moments in WoW around here somewhere.
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